Should I go pro?

[Guest]

I wanna know if any of you guy think i should go pro next year. I'm 15 i weigh 172.8 ibs and cut to 154 i have my Green belt in BJJ and i have been training in Muay Thai and BJJ since i was 12. i started wrestling and Boxing when i turned 14. So far my records are.

 

MT: 4-0

Boxing: 2-0 (i have a fight this friday)

BJJ: came Fourth in my first tournament last year have been training ever since (im competing again on the 23rd if im not to banged up)

Wrestling: came Eighth in my first Tournament this year not planning on competing again for a little while.

MMA: 1-0

 

I feel like if i lose some weight and fight at like 135 or 125 i could my an impact if i start slow. what do you guys think let me know.

(BTW i heard Green belt is the Equivalent of a Purple belt am i wrong? cause i have been saying i have a purple belt to people.)

[Guest]

If you would be fighting adults it wont matter what you are training or what level. If you mean pro as in paid to fight others your age. I wouldnt do it. Because when you do start fighting adults it would be best to fight amatuer to get your feet wet. If you have been paid at any point that might not be possible. I think you should at least wait until your 18 and then start your adult amatuer career for a half dozen fights or so.

 

Edit: Also from my experiences(not sure of how it works with your school) but a green belt isnt equal to a purple. Green is a kids ranking. Belts are earned based on beating oe hanging with others at that belt. You cant get an adult belt or even the equilivent competing with kids or by youth standards.

[CusDamato]

15 sounds way too young IMO, i had a few amateur boxing fights when i was 14/15 and now when i looked back i was just a kid then. Especially if you have only been training a year or two.

[rac2]

agree with BS. I mean, keep training hard. turn 18. test yourself. talk to your family. and then make a decision.

[Driven]

Unless you have a head MMA trainer who is advising you to go pro, the chances are you'd be making a big mistake by going pro. Independent guys trying to guide their own careers rarely have a great deal of success. You probably need more experience, too. I don't care how many boxing matches or BJJ tournaments you've competed in, you need more experience in amateur MMA fights. I train with the UFC's Michael McDonald, and although he went pro at 16, he probably had a combination of about two dozen amateur MMA and kickboxing matches (not to mention excelling in many jiu-jitsu tournaments). Even then, he almost got caught by an inferior opponent in his first fight. The speed and intensity of professional MMA fights catches many by surprise.

 

Not to sound like a dick, your wrestling and jiu-jitsu background sounds extremely weak to me. I had the good fortune to spend some time training with Valeri Ignatov, a guy with world class Sambo and world class judo. He explained to me how much he learned about MMA groundwork from Evan Tanner nearly caving his face in on the ground. This is a guy with a world class ground game who was unprepared for some of the subtle differences in the MMA game.

 

Don't even think of going pro until you have an MMA trainer who thinks you're ready, and is willing to look out for you. Unless you have somebody like that looking out for you, there's a very good chance you'll get overmatched opponents. Most promoters won't care anything about you - they just want to make money off of you. I train with a lot of young guys with records in various combat sports like yours, who I don't think are even close to being ready for professional fights. That doesn't mean you aren't - I have no way of knowing that for myself. It just means guys with records like yours are all over the place, and most aren't ready for professional MMA fights.

[DavyJones]

Once a green belt turns 16, he automatically gets a blue belt and usually has to spend a minimum of 2 yrs as a blue belt before getting rewarded with a purple. Maybe they would reward a purple belt right away if the kid has been training since he was 6-7 and wins everything they enter but I guess it depends on the school too. There was a 14 yr old on the forums awhile back saying he was a purple belt too but its just wishful thinking. Its pretty rare to reach purple belt before your 18, at least from what I know.

[Guest]

IMO there is no 15 year old in the world who is physically ready to fight grown men their own weight who are 18 up to 35 years old. I believe that MMA is 90% physical and 10% technical. we have seen to many high level guys in each division get smoked because they are not athletic enough. while at the same time see guys like Jon Jones come in with basically just Athletic and physical ability and a debatable amount of wrestling background that ranges from decent to great. But his striking was beginner and his BJJ was blue level when he was beating UFC guys.

 

The only way i can see a 15 year old going pro is is his matches were cherry picked for a very long time. But if that is the case. You have to ask yourself why you are even going pro if you have to be protected? There is nothing you can gain from it unless it is a money issue.

 

 

Something lots of fans over look in a fighters career is the mental aspect. We seen what happen with GSP when he was knocked out by Serra. It arguable effected him to this day. Most people are not effected that much by a single fight. But everyone is effect to some degree at some point. But at the same time confidence is a valuable tool. Jon Jones goes into fights now thinking he can do anything. He has most beat before stepping into the cage. If a 15 year old goes into a pro fight verses a much older and stronger person he runs the risk of getting smashed. Maybe the first one doesnt effect you. But maybe the 2nd or 3rd will and you will never been the same. Maybe if you were older, stronger, wiser, they wouldnt have happened.

 

I have seen guys in my gym unprepared and full of false confidence. They take a bad KO and they quick fighting and training altogether. You dont want that. I think everyone before fighting should ask themselves one question. Dont ask are you good enough. Ask "is this the best i can be?" You dont want to throw it all away before you can really maximize your potential.

[Guest]

Unless you have a head MMA trainer who is advising you to go pro, the chances are you'd be making a big mistake by going pro. Independent guys trying to guide their own careers rarely have a great deal of success. You probably need more experience, too. I don't care how many boxing matches or BJJ tournaments you've competed in, you need more experience in amateur MMA fights. I train with the UFC's Michael McDonald, and although he went pro at 16, he probably had a combination of about two dozen amateur MMA and kickboxing matches (not to mention excelling in many jiu-jitsu tournaments). Even then, he almost got caught by an inferior opponent in his first fight. The speed and intensity of professional MMA fights catches many by surprise.

 

Not to sound like a dick, your wrestling and jiu-jitsu background sounds extremely weak to me. I had the good fortune to spend some time training with Valeri Ignatov, a guy with world class Sambo and world class judo. He explained to me how much he learned about MMA groundwork from Evan Tanner nearly caving his face in on the ground. This is a guy with a world class ground game who was unprepared for some of the subtle differences in the MMA game.

 

Don't even think of going pro until you have an MMA trainer who thinks you're ready, and is willing to look out for you. Unless you have somebody like that looking out for you, there's a very good chance you'll get overmatched opponents. Most promoters won't care anything about you - they just want to make money off of you. I train with a lot of young guys with records in various combat sports like yours, who I don't think are even close to being ready for professional fights. That doesn't mean you aren't - I have no way of knowing that for myself. It just means guys with records like yours are all over the place, and most aren't ready for professional MMA fights.

the wrestling tournament i went to was OFSAA (http://www.ofsaa.on.ca/ ) which is basically the provincial championship (it's the Equivalent of a state championship) and The BJJ Tourney i went to was the GTA Classic which is a pretty high level tournament. regarding mma i did very well in my first fight finishing it in the first round. I do understand what you guys are saying and now that i think about it a agree.

[Face Kicker]

your body isn't even done growing yet. wait till you're 18.

[Lockdown]

Nah, train more and get as much as experience as you can competing against other kids your age. The experience is invaluable competing against other people your age.. I started training jiu jitsu at like 15 and had my first comp shortly after I turned 18 (broke my hand multiple times and was injured a bunch so couldn't compete earlier), which put me in the adult divisions. My first match was against a guy who was like 28 and he pretty much mopped the floor with me. My buddy has had a far better grappling career and much more success than me and a large factor in that is that he had a huge amount of experience in competitions before he turned 18, tackling the nerves and getting a big confidence boost by beating other kids and taking home golds. Even in my last competition last march I was a nervous wreck, wish I could of developed like him.

 

I also recommend you wrestle more!!! I have never competed with any solid wrestling skill but I've been getting solid wrestling training for about 6 months. It gives you a higher work ethic and makes you physically and mentally stronger.. to be perfectly honest all the pure jiu jitsu early on made me soft.

 

Yeah... def don't go pro for at least another 3 or 4 years, and start wrestling a lot more

[Guest]

I wanna know if any of you guy think i should go pro next year. I'm 15 i weigh 172.8 ibs and cut to 154 i have my Green belt in BJJ and i have been training in Muay Thai and BJJ since i was 12. i started wrestling and Boxing when i turned 14. So far my records are.

 

MT: 4-0

Boxing: 2-0 (i have a fight this friday)

BJJ: came Fourth in my first tournament last year have been training ever since (im competing again on the 23rd if im not to banged up)

Wrestling: came Eighth in my first Tournament this year not planning on competing again for a little while.

MMA: 1-0

 

I feel like if i lose some weight and fight at like 135 or 125 i could my an impact if i start slow. what do you guys think let me know.

(BTW i heard Green belt is the Equivalent of a Purple belt am i wrong? cause i have been saying i have a purple belt to people.)

 

Don't rush into it. You're lucky to be this young and have that many years of training behind you, so keep working on your skills and build experience. Even an 18-year-old will usually be way weaker than most grown men.

 

You seem to be building experience nicely on the amateur circuit and doing well, so keep up the good work.

 

A green belt can be at a purple belt level in theory, but that's only because it's the highest kid's rank there is. Even if you are at a purple belt level technically you're still so far behind physically (not a knock on you, you're still maturing and growing into your body) that it wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

If you would be fighting adults it wont matter what you are training or what level. If you mean pro as in paid to fight others your age. I wouldnt do it. Because when you do start fighting adults it would be best to fight amatuer to get your feet wet. If you have been paid at any point that might not be possible. I think you should at least wait until your 18 and then start your adult amatuer career for a half dozen fights or so.

 

Edit: Also from my experiences(not sure of how it works with your school) but a green belt isnt equal to a purple. Green is a kids ranking. Belts are earned based on beating oe hanging with others at that belt. You cant get an adult belt or even the equilivent competing with kids or by youth standards.

 

It's damn near impossible to go back to amateur once you've fought pro, at least in Europe. Seeing as North America is more regulated than most places over here I assume it's the same. I'm not even sure about debuting at 18, rushing into something like this sounds like an excellent way to get hurt. Personally I'd rather have my pro debut at 22 with tons of amateur experience and 10 odd years of MT/BJJ than at 18 and get ragdolled and punched silly by Joel the former high school wrestler from the Midwest.

 

IMO there is no 15 year old in the world who is physically ready to fight grown men their own weight who are 18 up to 35 years old. I believe that MMA is 90% physical and 10% technical. we have seen to many high level guys in each division get smoked because they are not athletic enough. while at the same time see guys like Jon Jones come in with basically just Athletic and physical ability and a debatable amount of wrestling background that ranges from decent to great. But his striking was beginner and his BJJ was blue level when he was beating UFC guys.

 

The only way i can see a 15 year old going pro is is his matches were cherry picked for a very long time. But if that is the case. You have to ask yourself why you are even going pro if you have to be protected? There is nothing you can gain from it unless it is a money issue.

 

 

Something lots of fans over look in a fighters career is the mental aspect. We seen what happen with GSP when he was knocked out by Serra. It arguable effected him to this day. Most people are not effected that much by a single fight. But everyone is effect to some degree at some point. But at the same time confidence is a valuable tool. Jon Jones goes into fights now thinking he can do anything. He has most beat before stepping into the cage. If a 15 year old goes into a pro fight verses a much older and stronger person he runs the risk of getting smashed. Maybe the first one doesnt effect you. But maybe the 2nd or 3rd will and you will never been the same. Maybe if you were older, stronger, wiser, they wouldnt have happened.

 

I have seen guys in my gym unprepared and full of false confidence. They take a bad KO and they quick fighting and training altogether. You dont want that. I think everyone before fighting should ask themselves one question. Dont ask are you good enough. Ask "is this the best i can be?" You dont want to throw it all away before you can really maximize your potential.

 

My coaches usually harp on and on about how it doesn't mean shit how many techniques you know if you can't pull them off physically. Even if you are a purple belt level grappler with a solid MT background, you're still so physically underdeveloped that most grown pro fighters should be able to just power through it.

 

Listen to BrainSmasher and Driven, they know what's up.

[Warwynd]

IN the US... or at least in my state you have to have 7 amateur fights before going pro anyway. Your use of the word Provisional indicates to me that you are either in Canada or Europe, and so I cannot speak on the rules there. Everyone here, has given you solid advice. I would take it to heart. You have a LONG time to get into the pros and when you are ready. At say 18-19 or so, and have tried your luck in adult fights then you will have a better feel for if you are ready for pros. You will also have that much better skills and more training under your belt.

 

Something that gets over looked a lot is the confidence you gain from having an extensive amateur career under your belt. You are more comfortable with more situations and can stay calm and work out of a bad spot. The pros are going to put you in them so you might want to have a clue how to get out of them.

 

In short... heed the advice these guys have given and continue to train. In three to four years you will have a better understanding of what is going on and will be in a better position to make an informed choice.

[markyosullivan]

My coach has told me not to consider cutting weight for fights because my body's still growing and I was 18 at the time. Apparently it's not good for your body if you're cutting weight at a young age.

 

I've been training in MMA for nearly 2 years now, been offered to 2 fight dates last year but both of them didn't suit me. Can't train MMA when I'm at uni because I only get back on fridays and usually it's too late for me to go to training though it's move closer to where I live so I might be able to start training once a week again. In the summer I'll hopefully be training at least twice a week.

 

Have been training in jujitsu, know all my stuff for white belt and know a lot of the stuff for orange and yellow.

 

If you go pro now you'll be going against men most likely. You'll get out muscled by these men as your muscles haven't fully developed. The last thing you want to do is get a loss now in your pro record. I'm surprised that you want to take a pro MMA fight when you've only had 1 mma fight before (semi pro I'm guessing?).

[WarMachine]

Fighting pro early in your career will hamper your developent.

 

Joe Stevenson for example could of and should have achieved more, now he is decline same with Miguel Torres.

 

Both talented but started way too early and now paying for it.

 

That's my opinion on rushing things.

[Timmy]

Time is your friend.

[Rambo]

Don't go pro at 15 (didn't even know that was possible). On top of the many reasons stated above, if you have your professional fighter liscense and you get in a fight outside of the cage/ring and you get charged with a felony.

[Guest]

Don't go pro at 15 (didn't even know that was possible). On top of the many reasons stated above, if you have your professional fighter liscense and you get in a fight outside of the cage/ring and you get charged with a felony.

 

That is and isnt true. IF you get in a fight and hurt someone on the streets it is possible the prosecuting attorney can try to charge you with use of a deadly weapon. You hear a lot of this in 80's MA movies where they claim their hands are licensed as deadly weapons in 48 states lol. But the truth is there is no such thing. You dont even have to be a pro fighter. The prosecutor can use any martial art or combat training you have to go after you. Although it is rare for them to do this unless there is a serious injury or media attention of course. Also each state is different and have complete different laws as to wether parts of the body can count as weapons.

 

 

Another case,

State v. Basting, is also on point.39 In this case, the Minnesota Supreme Court considered whether a ―professional boxer‖ was guilty of second-degree assault with a dangerous weapon after he punched a man twice in the face. The trial court had concluded that the defendant‘s fist was a dangerous weapon ―because of Basting‘s status as a professional boxer.‖40 On appeal, however, the supreme court determined that ―whether a fist or foot is a dangerous weapon includes a broader spectrum of considerations then simply an assailant‘s athletic career.‖41 Thus the court asked whether the defendant used his fist in a manner calculated or likely to cause great bodily harm.42 The court also emphasized that the circumstances surrounding the event, including the disparity in the sizes of the parties, the vulnerability of the victim, the severity of the attack, and the extent of the injuries, were all important to a determination of whether the fist was a dangerous weapon.43 Where the attack involved was ―brutal‖ or ―prolonged‖ and was made against a ―vulnerable or defenseless victim,‖ it was more likely that the body part would be classified as a deadly weapon. However, in this case, the assault was only momentary and the parties were of equal size. The court

demanded a ―level of severity beyond that involved in ordinary assault.‖

44 Therefore, the court concluded that while prior athletic training is relevant, ―it is not alone determinative,‖ because it is important to look at the nature of the object in addition to the manner in which it is used.45 Thus, in cases holding that the hands or the feet are deadly weapons, the courts emphasize the circumstances of the particular situation, especially the devastating nature of the victims‘ injuries, the size of the attacker compared to that of the victim, and the degree of force inflicted

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, some courts have held that the feet and hands alone are not weapons, but things worn on the fist or the foot, like shoes, may be deadly or dangerous weapons. In

Commonwealth v. Davis, the Massachusetts court directly addressed the question of whether parts of the body could constitute dangerous weapons.46 After listing various dangerous weapons, the court said that parts of the human body ―should be removed from consideration as dangerous weapons … even on a case by case basis.‖47 The court made it clear that in the case of kicking, ―the shoe or boot, not the foot, is the object which is considered as the ‗weapon‘ subjecting the assailant to a charge of aggravated assault.‖48

 

 

 

Like everything else and arguement can be made in court using training and credintials against you. But not being a pro doesnt make you immune to this. The biggest problem is if you are trained, pro or not, the courts are less likely to believe your plead of Self Defense. Like if you got in a fight with GSP and he put you in a coma. Few courts would believe he felt threatened by you to that extend.

[Guest]

Don't rush into it. You're lucky to be this young and have that many years of training behind you, so keep working on your skills and build experience. Even an 18-year-old will usually be way weaker than most grown men.

 

You seem to be building experience nicely on the amateur circuit and doing well, so keep up the good work.

 

A green belt can be at a purple belt level in theory, but that's only because it's the highest kid's rank there is. Even if you are at a purple belt level technically you're still so far behind physically (not a knock on you, you're still maturing and growing into your body) that it wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

 

 

It's damn near impossible to go back to amateur once you've fought pro, at least in Europe. Seeing as North America is more regulated than most places over here I assume it's the same. I'm not even sure about debuting at 18, rushing into something like this sounds like an excellent way to get hurt. Personally I'd rather have my pro debut at 22 with tons of amateur experience and 10 odd years of MT/BJJ than at 18 and get ragdolled and punched silly by Joel the former high school wrestler from the Midwest.

 

 

 

My coaches usually harp on and on about how it doesn't mean shit how many techniques you know if you can't pull them off physically. Even if you are a purple belt level grappler with a solid MT background, you're still so physically underdeveloped that most grown pro fighters should be able to just power through it.

 

Listen to BrainSmasher and Driven, they know what's up.

 

It should be hard to go back to Amatuer here also. Not sure how it works now. But i have had guys in my gym have a fight listed as a pro fight then their next fight be listed as an amatuer fight. I never asked them about it thought. Also if you look on their records, sometimes Sherdog has amatuer records or FullContact Fighter, you can see the dates show many guys bounce back and forth. But my biggest reason for doubt for this kid is competing as a kid. I dont know if the slate is wiped clean once he becomes an adult or if being paid as a kid locks him in as a pro for good.

[minark]

No idea where you're located, but as far as Michigan's rules go, once you get your pro license, you're no longer allowed to do any form of amateur MMA. So going pro so early can be a huge mistake because if you learn the competition is too tough for you then you have nothing to go to for experience other than getting beat down by other pro fighters.

[Guest]

I am a big believer in getting started as a pro relatively young compared to most people. IMO, and there is prenty of evidence to support it, a fighter pretty much is as good as he is going to be or at least 90-95%. Now they will get experience and learn things here and there. But there are many examples in the UFC where guys in their early 20's shows very good success win or lose. This actually goes to show the importance of athletic ability and fight intangibles. If you have those you can compete with lower level skills at a very young age.

 

It is a common saying, and imo for the most part false, when they see a 22 year old fighter to say "Can you imagine how good he will be at 28 or 30?". That seems to never be the case. This is why the UFC seems to not really believe in throwing prospects to the wolves. Because you can see right away even if they lose that they are something special. BJ Penn, at 23, fought Din Thomas who was 25 in his second fight. That isnt much of a age gap but Penn was 1-0. Thomas was one of the best in the world at that division and a 12-1 record. Penn owned him. The you have Rory MacDonald. He was 20 for his second UFC fight(10th overall) vs 26 year old Carlos Condit who was 24-5 and a top ranked guy. Rory fell short. But it was clear he had what it took. On the other side of the coin. You have guys like Hazelett and McCrory. Hazellett was good at what he did and it was good enough for the UFC even at 21 and 22 years old. But he washed out at 23. McCrory washed out at 22. What makes up 90% of a fighters success is already in them at 20 years old. Speed, strength, reflexes, chin, heavy hands, cardio, instincts, intelligence, etc. If you dont have these at 20-22. Then you likely never will. The stuff that gets you washed out of the UFC is ussually the stuff you can never get. another 6-8 years dont help. If you can improve somethign you are starting to lose something else like speed. So when you hear reporters say "Can you imagine how good Hazellett will be when he is 30?" i wouldnt put much weight into it. It was clear he was never going to have good wrestling and there was nothing he could do abotu his chin. He was the best he was ever going to be when he was 22 years old. I also believe this age group has a large advantage over the 30 year olds in the UFC. This is why imo the UFC is carefull how many they let in the UFC and the 30 year olds are almost always fighting each other. All things being equal the guy in his early 20's will win imo. I think if Jones was given a steady dose of guys his own age he would struggle much more than he does with these 30 somethings. Just my 2 cent rant on something kind of related. This kid is too young but he isnt as far from peaking as some people may think.

[Guest]

No idea where you're located, but as far as Michigan's rules go, once you get your pro license, you're no longer allowed to do any form of amateur MMA. So going pro so early can be a huge mistake because if you learn the competition is too tough for you then you have nothing to go to for experience other than getting beat down by other pro fighters.

 

Thats the way it should be. But keep in mind that might not always have been the case. I know Michigan didnt legalize MMA to not to long ago. Before that im sure it was like every where else. You got in any event you could. No one to really say you couldnt fight as an amatuer since there was no to stop it. 3 guys at my gym were some how able to do amatuer fights. Hazelett had an Ammy fight after 2 pro fights. Jamie Toney had 1 after 2 pro fights. Josh Souder had 4 Amatuer fights after he was listed as turning pro.Like i said i dont know the reasoning behind it but it happened a lot before the big TUF MMA boom.

[minark]

Early to mid 20's is a lot different than 16. 16 is too young.

[minark]

 

 

Thats the way it should be. But keep in mind that might not always have been the case. I know Michigan didnt legalize MMA to not to long ago. Before that im sure it was like every where else. You got in any event you could. No one to really say you couldnt fight as an amatuer since there was no to stop it. 3 guys at my gym were some how able to do amatuer fights. Hazelett had an Ammy fight after 2 pro fights. Jamie Toney had 1 after 2 pro fights. Josh Souder had 4 Amatuer fights after he was listed as turning pro.Like i said i dont know the reasoning behind it but it happened a lot before the big TUF MMA boom.

 

I think you can still leave the state and fight in a state where jumping between the two is legal. I think that only pertains to fighting in amateur Mma in Michigan still. But I have 0 clue on rules outside of MI.

[Guest]

Early to mid 20's is a lot different than 16. 16 is too young.

 

Agree 100%! A guy at my gym fought at 16. I think there was no ground punches or elbows or something. He was a state champions HW highschool wrestler. He went against a rail thin karate guy. His opponent and the guys dad saw him back stage and his dad told him " I think you are in trouble son". LMAO!!! State champ wrestler with a purple belt. Gurgel didnt use the kids rank with him. HE was big and trained with only adults. The fight lasted like 30 seconds and he finished him with an armbar. But this kid was about the same age. He didnt take any other fights until he was 18. He looked like he was mid 20's at 16. But even when he was 18 i would man handle him strength wise. He would have been in trouble if he fought adults at 16. Just for Physical reasons. http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Andrew-Varney-13772 He went on to have a decent career. Only losing to Brian Ebersol by decision. Think he is taking a break to go to college right now though.

[Warwynd]

I disagree with Brainsmasher on one point, here. Fighting pro is something that you should consider very carefully. The average career for an MMA fighter (or any other fighter for that matter) is 9 years. After that they have a tendency to drop off. He is correct that when ever someone says, "Imagine what this kid will be like at 30", that they never seem to be significantly better. That' because when they start at 18, but the time they are thirty they are already starting to decline. Guys like Hendo, and Coutour aside, most simply do not get better into their thirties. Unless they started much later.

 

I stand by my earlier statement and recommend that you start no earlier than 18 to 19 as a pro. build your experience and fully develpoe your body before jumping into the shark tank of pro fighting.