Do you like Chael Sonnen?

[Guest]

One good fight doesn't make a career. Just ask Matt Serra. Sonnen didn't even win his. I generally like him for his personality, but how long can he ride the hype from a fight that he ended up losing?

I don't think he is riding that hype. He had hype going into that fight and has the same hype as then. Its refreshing to hear someone talk the talk of a fighter and be willing to get in the cage and back it up win or lose. Especially now days when all the fighters look for reason to sit out as long as possible, pull out of fights, and cherry pick opponents. People cry that he is getting a title shot. But he is doing something no one else is doing. Asking for the hardest fights in the sport and stepping up with a smile on his face while others want the easy road. That's one of the reason I like Tank so much. He may not win. But he was first in line to fight the best of the time. A real warrior is always ready for battle. Only a bully picks his battles when he can win.

[Guest]

I don't think he is riding that hype. He had hype going into that fight and has the same hype as then. Its refreshing to hear someone talk the talk of a fighter and be willing to get in the cage and back it up win or lose. Especially now days when all the fighters look for reason to sit out as long as possible, pull out of fights, and cherry pick opponents. People cry that he is getting a title shot. But he is doing something no one else is doing. Asking for the hardest fights in the sport and stepping up with a smile on his face while others want the easy road. That's one of the reason I like Tank so much. He may not win. But he was first in line to fight the best of the time. A real warrior is always ready for battle. Only a bully picks his battles when he can win.

 

Are you seriously trying to claim that fighters are ducking title shots? Do you think a deserving guy like Machida or Gustafsson would have turned down the a fight with Jon Jones? People duck fights to ensure that they DO get a title shot, not to avoid one. I like Chael, but he is getting title shots based off of his mouth, not his fighting ability.

[Guest]

Machida was offered a title shot dumbass and he declined saying he wanted another fight first. Then he changed it to him wanting to fight on a different date. But they offered it to him and he had 10 million reasons not to take it. I think Gus might have taken it. BUt it would be stupid for him to have been put in that fight so soon. He isn't a draw and he isn't ready for that fight. Why ruin him just because you don't want to see Chael get the fight? That's some childish reasoning. Remember they tried to get Rampage to coach against Chael and he declined it. They dint have much options. Chaels mouth will sell any fight. Im sure he would just as much rather have got an easy win. But this fight is to use Chael to make someone care about Jones. No one gives a fuck about him and he will be champ for a long time. They are trying to make him a draw by getting eyes on him and getting wins over people know and care about. Not no name rookies thrown in the fire.

[Guest]

I am also a big fan of Chael Sonnen, not so much for his fighting but for his personality. But lets be honest I think it is a bit crazy how he just lost a title fight then gets another one in a different weight class. Having said that I am glad he did because that TUF season was great and in the unlikely chance of Sonnen pulling off the win it would be pretty damn funny! If Sonnen was champ it would be hilarious to see how outta control his chat would get.

[Guest]

But this fight is to use Chael to make someone care about Jones. No one gives a fuck about him and he will be champ for a long time. They are trying to make him a draw by getting eyes on him and getting wins over people know and care about. Not no name rookies thrown in the fire.

 

Well that certainly backfired since everyone is pissed off about it. Besides, Jon Jones is one of the biggest draws in MMA. He is a bigger draw than Chael. Being a big draw is very short sighted anyway. You make the most deserving fights if you want to be taken seriously as a sport and become profitable in the long run. You make fights based on false hype if you want to make a quick buck and don't care about sacrificing the future to do it.

[Guest]

He is the #2 185 fighter. Where #2 at 185 ranks at 205 is all conjecture. everyone seems #1 at 185 is worthy to fight the 205 champ. #2 isn't much of a difference. No Jones isn't a draw. Anyone with the 205 belt has always been able to draw 500K PPV buys at the very least. Even as dominant as Jones has been. He struggles to draw that. In fact he is one of the worst drawing 205 champs ever. Anyone who has that belt can draw what Jones does. He should be doing Anderson Silva numbers by now. You know how Anders was able to draw good numbers? Fighting guys he should have never been fighting. Cans at 205 behind a big marketing push on Spike. His first big PPV being his fight joke fight with Forrest. That's how you get fighters over. Chael is just as deserving of a shot at Jones and any of the guys asking for a rematch. Glover is next in line because he beat rampage. A guy who refused to fight Chael. What about the guy Machida just fought in an eliminator Hendo? Do you know how big a favorite Chael would be in a fight with Dan? To act like he is out of his league compared to the top guys at 205 is dumb. Like all the others he will get beat. But it doesn't mean he didn't deserve the chance.

[Guest]

Henderson had his title eliminator and lost. IMO nobody should ever get a title shot without at least a two fight winning streak. I really don't give two shits what you need to do to get guys over. This isn't WWE. This is a real sport. You don't manipulate matchups in real sports. You make the deserving matchups. Sometimes, it costs you money in the short term, but by establishing your sport as a credible one and not some staged sideshow, you grow the sport and make more money in the long term.

[Guest]

Henderson had his title eliminator and lost. IMO nobody should ever get a title shot without at least a two fight winning streak. I really don't give two shits what you need to do to get guys over. This isn't WWE. This is a real sport. You don't manipulate matchups in real sports. You make the deserving matchups. Sometimes, it costs you money in the short term, but by establishing your sport as a credible one and not some staged sideshow, you grow the sport and make more money in the long term.

Unfortunately that isn't how it works in reality. Fighters have style fights they can beat and cant beat. How do you decide which one they get? Sometime the guy you think is the 2nd best in the world just got the better match ups. Look at Jorge Santiago. Who kills everyone every where he goes. Champ in every promotion including Sengoku. But some how with all the bums and rookies that come through the UFC. This guy cant buy a win? while guys half as good as him get rookies, noobs, and bums to keep them in the UFC? He gets all top contenders and highly touted prospects. He is easily good enough to be on the UFC roster. But because of match making he got released for a 3rd time by the UFC and is discarded like a bum and fan write him off because they only understand what is pulled over their face. The guy has wins over 13 current or former UFC fighters. But when in the UFC he some how isn't good enough. Also the biggest ratings the UFC ever gets is when they do fights like Chael/Jones. Ken Shamrock jumped in front of Chuck to get a title shot 2 times and the ratings a PPV buys set records every time. It is those fights that made the UFC and the sport what it is today. It is that popularity that got it a tv deal and got most of you watching the sport. As much as it sucks. This stuff as its place in moderation at the right time. And the right time is where all your fresh fights for the champ are exhausted. You do fights like this to entertain while new contenders emerge. The UFC doesn't do this unless there is a good reason. They always put on the fights fans want to see. There isn't 1 single fight the fans have been denied.

[Guest]

Also I agree that in a perfect world you should have at least 3 wins imo in a row. But it isn't possible. You said you don't like "manipulating matchups". Well the top guys are fighting each other. It isn't often any of them will win 3 times in a row. If they do it takes 2 years to play out. The champ has to fight someone within the decade. With a strict rule on wins. You end up passing over the best fighters and punish them for fighting the top guys for mid level guys who have beat up bums and haven't met the top guys yet. The only way around it is to manipulate the matchups and protect the top guys and get them wins to look credible. Which happens all the time. The UFC and any promotion for that matter is more than blind monkeys throwing darts. They don't leave this stuff up to chance. Often fighters who are more marketable are put in the best position to succeed. If fights were random almost no one would string together more than a few wins. It isn't coincidence that all the Brazilians were losing in the UFC until the UFC blew up in Brazil. Then they are started winning again and moving into the headliner role of events and title shots.

[Guest]

Unfortunately that isn't how it works in reality. Fighters have style fights they can beat and cant beat. How do you decide which one they get? Sometime the guy you think is the 2nd best in the world just got the better match ups. Look at Jorge Santiago. Who kills everyone every where he goes. Champ in every promotion including Sengoku. But some how with all the bums and rookies that come through the UFC. This guy cant buy a win? while guys half as good as him get rookies, noobs, and bums to keep them in the UFC? He gets all top contenders and highly touted prospects. He is easily good enough to be on the UFC roster. But because of match making he got released for a 3rd time by the UFC and is discarded like a bum and fan write him off because they only understand what is pulled over their face. The guy has wins over 13 current or former UFC fighters. But when in the UFC he some how isn't good enough. Also the biggest ratings the UFC ever gets is when they do fights like Chael/Jones. Ken Shamrock jumped in front of Chuck to get a title shot 2 times and the ratings a PPV buys set records every time. It is those fights that made the UFC and the sport what it is today. It is that popularity that got it a tv deal and got most of you watching the sport. As much as it sucks. This stuff as its place in moderation at the right time. And the right time is where all your fresh fights for the champ are exhausted. You do fights like this to entertain while new contenders emerge. The UFC doesn't do this unless there is a good reason. They always put on the fights fans want to see. There isn't 1 single fight the fans have been denied.

 

Putting on the fights the fans want when they want it is good for PPV buys right now, but not good for the integrity of the sport. It would be like putting the Jays and the Nationals in the World Series during spring training this year because they were the most hyped teams. You'd get killer ratings, but fans would question the credibility of the sport. That is exactly what is happening now. There is a fan backlash over Edgar, Sonnen, and Diaz all getting title shots coming off of losses.

 

I don't want to write off style matchups because you are right that the fight world isn't linear. However, you can say the same about any sport. Which teams you play can make the difference between an 11-5 and 8-8 season in the NFL. You could get a low seed who just happens to be a bad matchup in NBA or NHL and lose a playoff series. However, when it comes right down to it, you need to beat whoever is put in front of you. It isn't 100% fair, but it far better than having an executive basing success off of how interesting your last interview was.

[Guest]

Putting on the fights the fans want when they want it is good for PPV buys right now, but not good for the integrity of the sport. It would be like putting the Jays and the Nationals in the World Series during spring training this year because they were the most hyped teams. You'd get killer ratings, but fans would question the credibility of the sport. That is exactly what is happening now. There is a fan backlash over Edgar, Sonnen, and Diaz all getting title shots coming off of losses.

 

I don't want to write off style matchups because you are right that the fight world isn't linear. However, you can say the same about any sport. Which teams you play can make the difference between an 11-5 and 8-8 season in the NFL. You could get a low seed who just happens to be a bad matchup in NBA or NHL and lose a playoff series. However, when it comes right down to it, you need to beat whoever is put in front of you. It isn't 100% fair, but it far better than having an executive basing success off of how interesting your last interview was.

How is it better? Neither is better or worse. If who the better fighter is doesn't matter than what does it matter if it is decided by luck or a match maker. Both leave the sport in the same place. One you need to be lucky and good the other you need to be good and have charisma. One is no better than the other. But one is better than the other when it comes to entertainment and business. The UFC could throw a bunch of guys in a tournament and let chips fall where they may. But it would lead to a bunch of guys win one losing one and no one watching. You also cant put weight into what people are complaining about. There is someone bitching reguardless of what match up is selected. There is always someone climing someone else is more deserving. The only accurate way to decide what people want is how many people watch. It has nothing to do with the credibility of the UFC. If Jones fights Machida people will be just as pissed since half think he already had a shot and Glover or Gus should be next. After the fight is over no one will think twice about it. The fight will just reaffirm how good Jones is and add to the hype train. Just as people have already forgot that Anderson fought Bonnar. Silva is bigger than ever and his super fights are bigger than ever. Ironically Weidman is clearly the #1 contender and there are tons of people pissed he is getting a shot.

[CusDamato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h4ARxky0Qv4

Chael doing what Chael does best

"I am the reason why Waldo is hiding" Fucking classic Sonnen, i think he is awesome.

[Guest]

How is it better? Neither is better or worse. If who the better fighter is doesn't matter than what does it matter if it is decided by luck or a match maker. Both leave the sport in the same place. One you need to be lucky and good the other you need to be good and have charisma. One is no better than the other. But one is better than the other when it comes to entertainment and business. The UFC could throw a bunch of guys in a tournament and let chips fall where they may. But it would lead to a bunch of guys win one losing one and no one watching. You also cant put weight into what people are complaining about. There is someone bitching reguardless of what match up is selected. There is always someone climing someone else is more deserving. The only accurate way to decide what people want is how many people watch. It has nothing to do with the credibility of the UFC. If Jones fights Machida people will be just as pissed since half think he already had a shot and Glover or Gus should be next. After the fight is over no one will think twice about it. The fight will just reaffirm how good Jones is and add to the hype train. Just as people have already forgot that Anderson fought Bonnar. Silva is bigger than ever and his super fights are bigger than ever. Ironically Weidman is clearly the #1 contender and there are tons of people pissed he is getting a shot.

 

No intelligent fight fan is pissed that Weidman got a shot. Silva-Bonnar was stupid, but it was a last minute thrown together fight during a period of many UFC injuries. They basically just needed Anderson Silva vs anyone to save the card. I don't agree with that happening, but it is better than losing the card altogether.

 

If you throw the people into tournaments, they would not all end up with .500 records. Winning streaks and losing streaks emerge in all sports. You will always have someone who has strung together 2 or 3 straight wins. UFC is already kind of like that because they don't allow fighters to take completely unbalanced fights to pad their records like boxers. Does anyone think Randy Couture was a can because his pro MMA record was only 19-11? No.

[MMATycoon]

I don't like his schtick (however you spell that), but I like the way he coaches people and they way he talks about mental weakness (wrong word but you know what I mean) that everyone has to deal with. I like that sort of psychology.

[Guest]

Machida was offered a title shot dumbass and he declined saying he wanted another fight first. Then he changed it to him wanting to fight on a different date. But they offered it to him and he had 10 million reasons not to take it. I think Gus might have taken it. BUt it would be stupid for him to have been put in that fight so soon. He isn't a draw and he isn't ready for that fight. Why ruin him just because you don't want to see Chael get the fight? That's some childish reasoning. Remember they tried to get Rampage to coach against Chael and he declined it. They dint have much options. Chaels mouth will sell any fight. Im sure he would just as much rather have got an easy win. But this fight is to use Chael to make someone care about Jones. No one gives a fuck about him and he will be champ for a long time. They are trying to make him a draw by getting eyes on him and getting wins over people know and care about. Not no name rookies thrown in the fire.

 

he didnt want another fight. machida said he didnt wanna fight jones on short notice...he fought him on pretty short notice the first time and didnt wanna do it again. if he loses in another title fight then he's out of the picture for a long, long time. even your hero dana said he could understand why machida didnt take it. he said machida was in the middle of moving and accepted why he didnt take the fight.

 

it isnt childish reasoning to not want chael to get the fight with jones. he simply doesnt deserve it. there's no real argument there. as far as rampage coaching against chael...again...why would rampage agree to that? he coached tuf twice and looked awful both times. why make himself look bad again? why agree to coach tuf when he was planning on leaving the ufc anyway? youre conveniently looking at all of this from one view point.

 

jones has done well on ppv. has he done the level of a gsp? of course not, but he draws better than every other title holder, barring anderson and gsp. so yes....people do give a shit about jon jones.

 

you can tell the ufc has struggled to find a way to sell this fight...the commercial for this event has to be one of the worst the ufc has done in years. how do you sell this? "SPEND $65 TO WATCH A MIDDLEWEIGHT COMING OFF A LOSS FIGHT THE LHW CHAMP!"

 

really exciting proposal. we'll see if people buy the ppv for chael's trash talk. he was pretty tame on tuf...i dont see this doing numbers that chael/anderson did. not even close.

[Guest]

I don't like his schtick (however you spell that), but I like the way he coaches people and they way he talks about mental weakness (wrong word but you know what I mean) that everyone has to deal with. I like that sort of psychology.

 

I also thought he did an excellent job on TUF. I was expecting nothing but self promotion, but he really cared about his team, kept the trash talk to a minimum, and put his speaking skills to use as an excellent motivator. I liked him personally both before and after TUF, but it still pisses me off that he has a title shot that he hasn't earned.

[Guest]

he didnt want another fight. machida said he didnt wanna fight jones on short notice...he fought him on pretty short notice the first time and didnt wanna do it again. if he loses in another title fight then he's out of the picture for a long, long time. even your hero dana said he could understand why machida didnt take it. he said machida was in the middle of moving and accepted why he didnt take the fight.

 

it isnt childish reasoning to not want chael to get the fight with jones. he simply doesnt deserve it. there's no real argument there. as far as rampage coaching against chael...again...why would rampage agree to that? he coached tuf twice and looked awful both times. why make himself look bad again? why agree to coach tuf when he was planning on leaving the ufc anyway? youre conveniently looking at all of this from one view point.

 

jones has done well on ppv. has he done the level of a gsp? of course not, but he draws better than every other title holder, barring anderson and gsp. so yes....people do give a shit about jon jones.

 

you can tell the ufc has struggled to find a way to sell this fight...the commercial for this event has to be one of the worst the ufc has done in years. how do you sell this? "SPEND $65 TO WATCH A MIDDLEWEIGHT COMING OFF A LOSS FIGHT THE LHW CHAMP!"

 

really exciting proposal. we'll see if people buy the ppv for chael's trash talk. he was pretty tame on tuf...i dont see this doing numbers that chael/anderson did. not even close.

Rampage said he wouldn't fight Chael. Even if you believe an attention whore like Rampage didn't like TUF after doing it twice. You lose any argument when he says he wont fight him because he will just LnP him. If it was someone besides Chael he would have taken the coaching spot. Also Jones is the worst drawing LHW champ. Think of everyone who has had that belt. He is the worst. Even though as long as he has had it he should be drawing more. He doesn't. Of course this fight will not do what Chael vs Silva did. But it will beat what Jones does verses anyone else. As far as deserving the title shot. The UFC selects who gets the shot. There is no official requirements on who gets it. So who they choose gets it is who deserved it. Its not based an any of your fantasy requirements. So no, by Fman standard's he didn't deserve it. But by the official requirements(UFC opinion) from the people who matter(UFC) he does deserve it. You want your standards to count. Get In line behind 100,000 people at sherdog who have a different opinion and believe theirs is just as important as you do.

[Guest]

everything you just said is full of dumb. is jones any worse of a draw than machida or shogun? nope. so there goes that theory about past LHW champions.

 

as far as the rest of your idiotic rambling...i'm basing title fights in the ufc on the past. you know...the past where title fights are almost exclusively only given to people who are actually winning fights in their division, not losing in one division and getting title shots in others. i can only think of 3 examples of someone getting a title shot off a loss in the ufc. first is eilers against arlovski, then we have diaz against gsp, and coming up we have sonnen against jones. can you think of others? i might be missing one other. so why does this happen so rarely? because usually in the ufc....title fights are given off wins and given to people who deserve them. now take a second to wipe chael and dana's semen out of your eyes before you read this post and think long and hard before you respond.

[Guest]

Title Fights

Machida 635K, 500K, 520K, 485K(vs Jones)

Shogun 500K, 520K, 490K(vs Jones)

Evans 1 million, 635K, 700K(vs Jones)

Forrest 540K, 1 million

Rampage 675K, 540K, 520K(vs Jones)

Jones 490K, 520K, 485K, 700K, 450K

So as you can see. except for his grudge match with Rashad. He has been a part of the lowest PPV rates of any of the former champs since the TUF era started. In fact, everyone who fought him except Evans sold less PPVs vs Jones than any of their other Title fights. People are going out of their way to not see Jones fight. Hopefully his grudge with Evans, the drama of 151 making people hate him, and Chael making him relevant. He will be polarizing and sell PPVs.

[Guest]

Tito Ortiz won his first belt coming off a loss. Couture won interim LHW title after losing two in a row at HW to Ricco and Barnett. Couture then went to HW and won the title after coming off a loss to Chuck Liddell at LHW. Ken Shamrock at UFC 40 vs Tito. BJ Penn after losing to GSP fought Matt Hughes for the belt. That's just off the top of my head. Not to mention all the Auto rematches Champs got after losing the belt. This has always went on and its nothing new.

[Guest]

i'm basing title fights in the ufc on the past. you know...the past where title fights are almost exclusively only given to people who are actually winning fights in their division, not losing in one division and getting title shots in others. i can only think of 3 examples of someone getting a title shot off a loss in the ufc. first is eilers against arlovski, then we have diaz against gsp, and coming up we have sonnen against jones. can you think of others? i might be missing one other.

 

Frankie Edgar

[Guest]

Title Fights

Machida 635K, 500K, 520K, 485K(vs Jones)

Shogun 500K, 520K, 490K(vs Jones)

Evans 1 million, 635K, 700K(vs Jones)

Forrest 540K, 1 million

Rampage 675K, 540K, 520K(vs Jones)

Jones 490K, 520K, 485K, 700K, 450K

So as you can see. except for his grudge match with Rashad. He has been a part of the lowest PPV rates of any of the former champs since the TUF era started. In fact, everyone who fought him except Evans sold less PPVs vs Jones than any of their other Title fights. People are going out of their way to not see Jones fight. Hopefully his grudge with Evans, the drama of 151 making people hate him, and Chael making him relevant. He will be polarizing and sell PPVs.

 

UFC DOESNT RELEASE PPV NUMBERS STOP MAKING SHIT UP YOU LIMP DICK FAIRY

 

so wait...jones was involved in the second highest ufc ppv for a lhw? ok cool. what a shitty draw.

 

and so we agree only a handful of fighters in the ufc have gotten title shots coming off of losses, and many of them happened in a time where there werent many viable contenders. glad you agree.

[Guest]

Prove the numbers wrong pussy! No Jones doesn't have the second highest selling LHW fight. Every time you speak you show how big a noob you are. You don't know PPV numbers, that lots of fighters have got title shots off of loses, etc. Maybe you should spend more time learning about the sport rather than trolling forums like a lame bitch!

[Guest]

Keep it civil just agree to disagree and stop trolling this thread

[Guest]

Prove the numbers wrong pussy! No Jones doesn't have the second highest selling LHW fight. Every time you speak you show how big a noob you are. You don't know PPV numbers, that lots of fighters have got title shots off of loses, etc. Maybe you should spend more time learning about the sport rather than trolling forums like a lame bitch!

 

PROVE THE NUMBERS RIGHT PUSSY!!!!111 SHOW ME A UFC OFFICIAL WHO CONFIRMED THESE NUMBERS U FUKIN FAIRY!!!!111

 

and let me reword...jones has the second highest ppv numbers out of the numbers your listed. cool.

 

and no...lots of fighters havent gotten title fights off losses. it's a handful...it isnt normal. youre showing how much of a n00b you are by thinking this is normal.