Bwang Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I recently made 3 prospects and am not sure if I messed it up a bit. I made a boxing 18yr old with max punches, str def, tkd def, a MT 18yr old with max elbows clinch and tkd def and a bjj 18yr old with max tkd off, sub and transitions. I've been told I should have gone for def grap rather than tkd def/off. Is this right? Have I allocated the points in a non optimal way? Have I made their future training paths extra long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 NO, You'd rather avoid being taken down than allow yourself to be taken down and defend subs all night until you wear down and one sticks or you lose a decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 NO, You'd rather avoid being taken down than allow yourself to be taken down and defend subs all night until you wear down and one sticks or you lose a decision Agreed...defensive grappling alone will not win any fights, so grapplers will just take you down constantly and force you to defend and lose. Great takedown defense with mediocre defensive grappling, subs, and transitions will likely let you hold off takedowns for long enough to at least score points and possibly get a KO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 LOL im a noob and dont usually give advice because im learning still but this one was sticking out at me like a sore thumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I agree, to make a better fighter from the start my points allocation was ok. But I am interested in their future careers and in them becoming great! If my boxing prospect had clinch say instead of tkd def then that would've been another boxing skill, which'd push up his primary. So I was told I'd set myself up for a much longer training path to a complete fighter. Which I'd be annoyed about as the boxer in particular seems like a killing machine in the cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPancake Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Who told you that? It seems counter-intuitive to me. Sure, if you forfeit takedown offense and defense completely, you have more points in your other areas. But some that specialises in one area and is decent in the other will still beat you by choosing where the fight is. Also, you probably get points by sucessful takedowns and get in a better position. So even if you have equal ground skills and get taken down, you are at a disadvantage. That is why I plan on giving my boxers very good takedown defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Who told you that? That is why I plan on giving my boxers very good takedown defense. you really cant build a boxer any other way or you would never win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.J Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 without take. def. and wrestl. primary your guy goes down easily and he will be raped by on ground by purple.brown or gnp artists. (assuming your is just a 18 yr old with bjj white belt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.J Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 however if you have allocated points to def. grap. instead of takedown defense then you can make him Boxer cum bjj guy. i have one such guy but he is MT and BJJ guy.he has intelligent hidden too. his Takedown Off or def. are Useless. http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=220543 he is not a pure ground fighter though and is very likely to fight off his back most of the time if on ground.he will not shoot for takedowns.he will keep the standing but if taken down by his opponent then he has skills to submit his opponent.i would say it's risky built but i like experiments Submissions,Defensive Grap & Transitions must be very very high indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I've been told I should have gone for def grap rather than tkd def/off. Everyone else has made some good points, however (just throwing this out there) you could always forfeit takedown D and use those points towards submissions... Then set your tactics to sub on the ground. The opponent will take you down but then you may get a submission victory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Everyone else has made some good points, however (just throwing this out there) you could always forfeit takedown D and use those points towards submissions... Then set your tactics to sub on the ground. The opponent will take you down but then you may get a submission victory... with this plan dont you have to have almost equal bjj vs this grappler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPancake Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Everyone else has made some good points, however (just throwing this out there) you could always forfeit takedown D and use those points towards submissions... Then set your tactics to sub on the ground. The opponent will take you down but then you may get a submission victory... I disagree. Even if you have equal SD and subs (which is unlikely for a stand-up fighter) and even transitions and primary(which is very unlikely), without TKD your opponent will have a good chance to get takedowns into halfguard or even side control. So even with equal skills, you will lose. So Takedown Defense is more important at first and remains important at later stages. (If there is no flaw in my logic) Does anyone with more experience disargee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirez Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 if i was making an 18 year old boxing prospect what is the best way to allocate the skills? i have been splitting it evenly between punches, clinch and striking defence, now i am training their wrestling by learning takedown defence, def grapp, transitions and escapes. does this sound right or is there a more efficient way of making a great fighter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I am still learning as well but it seems to me the best way to start your points is to split them between 1 stand up (either boxing or MT) and 1 ground (either wrestling or bjj). Or go all ground and train a stand up. You will eventually go to the ground. I started guys all stand up and they lose when they are young against anyone with ground game. Then I started guys all ground and they keep winning by sub. Now I realize you need 1 of each. I bet anything the fighter you made a ground guy will win many more fights early in their career than your stand up guys. But what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floppzzy Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 At leaxst you guys didnt spend 90 days vip on a 16 yo with those stats... i did lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkKent Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 It all depends though, if you've made a project with stats like you did then no problem because you are going to build them for a while so starting stats dont really matter too much. However, if you plan on fighting right away, you need to adress the most pressing issues for that style. e.g. a wrestler needs to be able to take his opponent down, a boxer needs to be able to outstrike his opponent, so you need the points in the right places off the bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirez Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 what age would you start fighting your prospect (if he started at 18)? i heard it is good to wait until he is 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPancake Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 what age would you start fighting your prospect (if he started at 18)? i heard it is good to wait until he is 22. I would let him have at least one fight early, so that you can see some hiddens. I would think it has to suck, if you train someone until he is 22 (so for more than one real life year) only to find out that he has a glass chin/cuts easily/can knock someone out for his life/has no heart at all, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkKent Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 what age would you start fighting your prospect (if he started at 18)? i heard it is good to wait until he is 22. The risk you take is training someone for a full year in real life and having them end up with no chin or no confidence etc. It's tricky, I'd DEFINATELY recommend having an early fight to see hiddens, but if I'm really keen, I'll only wait till they're about 20/21 at the most. What I normally do is have about 3-4 fights then have a few months off for training once you've got a fairly good idea of what your guys good at/that he's not a dud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 what age would you start fighting your prospect (if he started at 18)? i heard it is good to wait until he is 22. I think this is something that will vary based on fighter build. All top managers will say that striking D, takedown D, some clinch and defensive grappling are the essential areas before fighting. A stand up boxer can get away with 12 striking D, 12 takedown D, 12 punches and minimal clinch/defensive grappling...which could allow him to fight at 18-19. I'd say the fighter age would be ON AVERAGE 18-20. Most of my guys started late 18 early 19 and have been doing stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Don't forget guys that clinchwork is very useful when it comes to defending takedowns/performing TDs attempt cause you can end in a clinch. "Naama dives in for a single leg takedown but Bukovsky sprawls and the fighters end up clinched against the cage." - link to the fight if someone wants to check That means the fight is currently in clinch without "clinch" banner shown in the fights pbp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPancake Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 (Actual Link to fight in question : http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=601193) Congrats you got the win anyways. It makes lots of sense that Wrestling and Muay Thai are important the fighters get a hold of each other. Did you tell Mike that the "clinch" banner should be added to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I will ask him about it. But from my point of view the clinch banner shows only when one fighter is attempting clinch. In the fight, fighters ended in clinch not because one of them tried to, but because my opponent tried to take my fighter down and the clinch was result of his failed TD attempt. So I'm not sure if in such situations clinch logo should be shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkKent Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I will ask him about it. But from my point of view the clinch banner shows only when one fighter is attempting clinch. In the fight, fighters ended in clinch not because one of them tried to, but because my opponent tried to take my fighter down and the clinch was result of his failed TD attempt. So I'm not sure if in such situations clinch logo should be shown. I think a banner would still help to know where the fight is taking place, also when someone pulls guard from the clinch and fails which forces a seperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.J Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I think a banner would still help to know where the fight is taking place, also when someone pulls guard from the clinch and fails which forces a seperation. i second that. we need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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