GBK16 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Wouldn't it just be easier to allow the champ to vacate the title? It means messy divorces don't need to come to the forums. And it means the org doesn't have to wait 20-30 days to book a title fight for that particular title While I agree it would be better to have an option for the Champ to vacate, what if a champion goes inactive without informing the org owner? That would just leave it in the lurch. Maybe a combination of both, where champs can vacate, but org owners can strip if the title isn't defended, or a fight hasn't been accepted, for 30 days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 The org doesn't lose anything if a champion vacates though? It loses no org hype and it gets its belt back. Please don't say but yeah he loses the fighter. Chances are if the guy vacates the belt he is already out of your org and looking for a new one to go to. i never seen you commented twice. You pay 30 bucks a year and want to run an org yeah you can. The fact of the matter through running an org in no way, shape or form give you control over anyone elses account nor does it give you the right to ask them when they are leaving the game to do you a favor. You don't get magical superpowers, you get to offer fair fights to two separate people and hope they see it the same way and make a barrow load of game cash in the process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I think there should be 3 ways to take a belt from the champ. 1) Org owner strips the champ and takes a hype hit (like it is now) 2) Org owner and champ agree to vacate the belt with no hype hits. 3) Champ goes inactive and org owner can strip belt for no hype hit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 The org doesn't lose anything if a champion vacates though? It loses no org hype and it gets its belt back. Please don't say but yeah he loses the fighter. Chances are if the guy vacates the belt he is already out of your org and looking for a new one to go to. i never seen you commented twice. You pay 30 bucks a year and want to run an org yeah you can. The fact of the matter through running an org in no way, shape or form give you control over anyone elses account nor does it give you the right to ask them when they are leaving the game to do you a favor. You don't get magical superpowers, you get to offer fair fights to two separate people and hope they see it the same way and make a barrow load of game cash in the process. I have no issue with a fighter wanting to leave my org and go to a new one. In 100% of the cases where someone has asked to be released, I have come to an agreement with them and they have got their fighter released. My only issue I have is that the title is held up, and if we only add the "Vacate Title" option, then it is wasted if a manager goes inactive without any notice. Better to add both options to cover it completely. To say I am not allowed to ask someone for a favor is just ignorance. I have the right to ask, just like he has the right to refuse. In this instance, he went inactive and never saw my response to him declining the fight. I simply posted this to see what people think the best course of action to take would be, and now, we could be getting an option added to prevent problems of this nature from occurring in the future. I never claimed that he should continue to play the game simply because his fighter is the champ, I simply said that after just winning the title, or when he decided he would leave the game, that he should have given notice. Now, without any knowledge to go on, I can only assume he is leaving the game because he doesn't have the time to play it anymore. I think there should be 3 ways to take a belt from the champ. 1) Org owner strips the champ and takes a hype hit (like it is now) 2) Org owner and champ agree to vacate the belt with no hype hits. 3) Champ goes inactive and org owner can strip belt for no hype hit. Essentially what I said earlier, but better displayed. Agree with this 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasman Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) It makes no sense for a fighter NOT having the option to vacate a belt. Of course the manager should be able to do that, at a popularity cost for the fighter. If the manager gets fed up with the "baggage" that can come with having a title, like constantly having to fight much lower ranked fighters, he should be able to have the option to vacate. The Org shouldn't suffer for this scenario, of possibly not having the resources to get adequate opposition, nor should the manager be forced to risk the massive managerial ranking hit, by losing a fight like that. Remember, this is just vacating a title, not vacating a contract. He would still be contracted to the org and would still have to negotiate his way out of the contract, if he wished so. The org owner can restore fair titlefights and setup superfights for his high ranked ex champ until the contract is finished. This way nobody loses out on anything. Edited August 6, 2014 by Grasman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyMuchacho Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Did I say that at all? I know you don't like me, but jumping to conclusions is just stupid. I am simply asking him to see out at least 1 title defence. In the event he lost the belt, then the matter would be sorted. If he won the fight, then I would at least get a number of weeks to work out a solution, or he might return to the game before then. I am not bitching, if I was then I would have named him. I understand he is leaving the game, but to decide to do that mere days after winning my orgs title leaves me in the lurch. Overall, since he is leaving and has not logged in for a few days, it pretty much gives me no option but to strip him. I like the idea of there being an option for the manager to relinquish a title. GSP did it in real life, so there is something to go on in terms of relating it to the game. The idea of an inactivity clause for the title is a good one as well. Don't necessarily not like you, but when your retort includes calling me "stupid" within the first 2 sentences I tend to like you less now if that helps. Don't come on here with your bullshit "i'm not going to name names but with 2 clicks you can see who in talking about" bullshit. You're a drama starting bitch. A Dana White complaining that the fighters are costing him. Take your head out of your ass and let other people play how they want. Did you pay the manager's $30 for VIP? No? Then why the fuck are you trying to manage his account? And now that I think about it, you're right. I don't like you very much. Bitchy old timers scaring off newer players from returning pisses me off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have no issue with a fighter wanting to leave my org and go to a new one. In 100% of the cases where someone has asked to be released, I have come to an agreement with them and they have got their fighter released. My only issue I have is that the title is held up, and if we only add the "Vacate Title" option, then it is wasted if a manager goes inactive without any notice. Better to add both options to cover it completely. To say I am not allowed to ask someone for a favor is just ignorance. I have the right to ask, just like he has the right to refuse. In this instance, he went inactive and never saw my response to him declining the fight. I simply posted this to see what people think the best course of action to take would be, and now, we could be getting an option added to prevent problems of this nature from occurring in the future. I never claimed that he should continue to play the game simply because his fighter is the champ, I simply said that after just winning the title, or when he decided he would leave the game, that he should have given notice. Now, without any knowledge to go on, I can only assume he is leaving the game because he doesn't have the time to play it anymore. Essentially what I said earlier, but better displayed. Agree with this 100% Giving the fact that they were what over a month between fights... i know actual work places that ask for less notice than that, actually most work places i know. Bringing it to the forums, the land of the lynch mob which you have seen the handy work of over the past few weeks looking for support. A guy who is quitting the game, who has clearly stated he wants no part in playing the game to you. You then feel like you have the right to ask him for a favor? It is like your work asking you to take on extra shifts after you handed in your notice. You could have easily made a thread in the improvements area of the forums asking for a vacate button, the hype to not be stripped from your org when you strip a champion etc etc. Instead you decided to make a thread after seeing the shit caused when Bravo and another manager (sorry i cannot remember who) ended up. This thread in all honesty reminds me of those threads, it is an org owner unhappy that he isn't getting his own way. The difference is the other manager has already left the building and prolly if he comes back and sees this thread thinks fuck ever coming back. "Don't want to start a huge debate where people start accusing people of being things so I will leave out names here, and would appreciate if the people who go to find that person do not bring their name into this, simply because that will only escalate things" That is like saying no offence at the start of the sentence before then saying something offensive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Don't necessarily not like you, but when your retort includes calling me "stupid" within the first 2 sentences I tend to like you less now if that helps. Don't come on here with your bullshit "i'm not going to name names but with 2 clicks you can see who in talking about" bullshit. You're a drama starting bitch. A Dana White complaining that the fighters are costing him. Take your head out of your ass and let other people play how they want. Did you pay the manager's $30 for VIP? No? Then why the fuck are you trying to manage his account? And now that I think about it, you're right. I don't like you very much. Bitchy old timers scaring off newer players from returning pisses me off. I never called you stupid, just your reaction. The only people that will look up a persons name and actually take this as a reason not to deal with them in future, are probably people he wouldn't want to deal with in the first place. Up until now, I have had no problems with the guy, and got along fine with him. I simply asked him a question, and without a response, I simply asked what the best course of action would be. Now, we are getting something implicated the prevent it from happening in future. A pretty productive thread I think. I am not starting drama, but you cause it with calling people certain things Which in turn, just makes you a hypocrite. In any case, this matter has been resolved, and Mike has seen our response to proposed Title Vacating options so he can make his judgement call on it. Mods can feel free to close the thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Regarding champs vacating, it's just one of those things that sets off alarm bells that it might be abuseable / not realistic to not get a hype hit. In real life, let's say you have a fighter build up a nice bit of hype in a mid level org become their champ and build up that org's hype because he's there, then he pisses off to the UFC and vacates his title? That org would not be as highly regarded anymore, so I think there should be some sort of hit. Whereas if someone goes inactive, that's a different matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTree Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Agree, we shouldn't fault inactivity to the org because its just part of the game that we have to live with. Any time a title is removed or vacated then there should be a hype hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Regarding champs vacating, it's just one of those things that sets off alarm bells that it might be abuseable / not realistic to not get a hype hit. In real life, let's say you have a fighter build up a nice bit of hype in a mid level org become their champ and build up that org's hype because he's there, then he pisses off to the UFC and vacates his title? That org would not be as highly regarded anymore, so I think there should be some sort of hit. Whereas if someone goes inactive, that's a different matter. Agreed, but maybe also add in the option if the fighter retires, you can take the belt without a hype hit? Or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasman Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Regarding champs vacating, it's just one of those things that sets off alarm bells that it might be abuseable / not realistic to not get a hype hit. In real life, let's say you have a fighter build up a nice bit of hype in a mid level org become their champ and build up that org's hype because he's there, then he pisses off to the UFC and vacates his title? That org would not be as highly regarded anymore, so I think there should be some sort of hit. Whereas if someone goes inactive, that's a different matter. He's not pissing off anywhere by vacating the title. He's still contracted to the org. If he's not contracted anymore, then it's a no brainer to be able to vacate. St Pierre for instance, vacated the title and is still with the UFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrClean Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 He's not pissing off anywhere by vacating the title. He's still contracted to the org. If he's not contracted anymore, then it's a no brainer to be able to vacate. St Pierre for instance, vacated the title and is still with the UFC. I like where Grasman is going with this. If you start fighters in lower tier orgs and they turn out to be great fighters eventually you clean the org's division out. What are you supposed to do then? Just leave the org? Should the orgs suffer a hype hit? Should they keep feeding the title holder fighters who aren't ready. Should the manager of the title holder keep "crushing cans" as they say? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTing Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 It would be nice to see an option added for a manager to vacate the title, wouldnt it Who would it affect ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 How about we let people strip champs for free if the manager hasn't logged in for 20-30 days? I would strongly be on the side of a higher, rather than lower, number, say 40 days as I know many of my champs and other fighters are happy to fight every 4 weeks (whilst others prefer more frequently). This allows for temporary absence and in practice means the org misses the guy fighting only once before the stripping option is available. An alternate option, which has implications for contracts in general, is simply apply the fighter's inactivity clause to the free-strip duration IF manager inactivity is also >30 or whatever the inactivity clause number is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Regarding champs vacating, it's just one of those things that sets off alarm bells that it might be abuseable / not realistic to not get a hype hit. In real life, let's say you have a fighter build up a nice bit of hype in a mid level org become their champ and build up that org's hype because he's there, then he pisses off to the UFC and vacates his title? That org would not be as highly regarded anymore, so I think there should be some sort of hit. Whereas if someone goes inactive, that's a different matter. If you consider it by the UFC standards then yeah GSP's hype would have taken a hit. The thing is though not every org in this game is the UFC. How many champions of smaller orgs do the UFC sign? They will receive more hype and popularity as they become more "known" in the eyes of the casual MMA fans. I don't see how it is open for abuse when they are nothing realistically to gain from it, its not like you get an extra 500k for fighting in a title fight. You get a slight hype/pop boost if i remember correctly but not so much its worth vacating the title every single time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 The more I think about it, the more I feel like there should be no hype hit when a champion is no longer signed to your org. Think about it. Bellator took a hype hit when guys like Askren and Lombard left, not because they had their titles stripped. Do you really think it would have saved Bellator's hype to let those guys keep the titles and have nobody competing for the title in Bellator? That would have hurt hype much more than stripping. That is the current situation in this game. You can avoid the hype hit by NOT stripping and keeping your champ a guy who is no longer even fighting for you. The punishment for losing your champ to another org should simply be that you lost the most hyped (or close to it) guy from your division. There should be no punishment beyond that. Now, I think this should only apply to champions voluntarily giving up the belt, taking a fight in another org, or being inactive for 30 days. There still SHOULD be a hype hit for stripping the title from an active champ, or a champ who you have cut. We don't want some dick of an owner stripping guys every time he has a dispute with them. This would create a reasonable balance of power between champs and org owners. If a champ wants out of a contract in order to sign in another org, he could message the owner, who would likely say "No problem. I'll cut you and let you leave, but only after you voluntarily give up the belt." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 For me it totally depends on the relative hypes of the orgs involved whether someone leaving to go elsewhere would mean your org would become more well known from the fighter moving up in the world, or whether people would look dimly on your org for losing top talent. Anyway, I'm more than happy to keep the discussion going - I'm just a bit busy at the moment with other stuff to really have a think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 For me it totally depends on the relative hypes of the orgs involved whether someone leaving to go elsewhere would mean your org would become more well known from the fighter moving up in the world, or whether people would look dimly on your org for losing top talent. Anyway, I'm more than happy to keep the discussion going - I'm just a bit busy at the moment with other stuff to really have a think about it. Dammit Michael are you ever NOT to busy with other stuff to really have a think about it? Use some of the thousands of pennies we give you and hire someone to help you, or else! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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