Thoughts please: gameplanning / predicting opponent tactics

[JCRaven]

not a fan, if it's optional i can understand but i think your gonna scare off some younger guys if it's mandatory

[Mauipigen]

Not a fan either.... I'd much rather have the Manager ratings fixed.

[fregalado]

This would be an equalizer for intelligent fighters since most say that they amount to nothing.

[Lefty]

This would be an equalizer for intelligent fighters since most say that they amount to nothing.

Not true. Some of this games best fighters have popped intelligence on the TOTT not to mention countless others who had better hiddens and some great intelligence to go along with it. Intelligence is quite powerful already through the power of See How It Goes.

 

I do not see why you would want this... to protect the now terribly fragile fighters that happen to have intelligence? Why not diminish the penalties that injuries have on a fighter? We also need to have the rankings tweaked a bit more...

 

Just saying this comes out of nowhere and it just does not make any sense to me. I already feel like my fighters have this(especially high intellligence fighters) because of my gameplans that I set so adding it would be pointless the way I see it.

[MMATycoon]

It's much easier to integrate it in with the current work I was doing on the fight engine, which is why I threw it out there / did it now. I will have a look at manager rankings after this.

[JCRaven]

really hate how this is being installed not a fan this makes me want to play the game less. Stuff like this is why i stopped paying for vip with real money.

[MMATycoon]

really hate how this is being installed not a fan this makes me want to play the game less. Stuff like this is why i stopped paying for vip with real money.

Nobody's making you do it.

[Guest]

really hate how this is being installed not a fan this makes me want to play the game less. Stuff like this is why i stopped paying for vip with real money.

I don't understand why something like this makes you so mad... It's optional.

[JCRaven]

Nobody's making you do it.

yep and as a customer i'm telling you what i think, you're creating more problems rather than fixing ones that are already here. But you kinda are making us though because it'll just go off the opp's history if you don't.

 

I don't understand why something like this makes you so mad... It's optional.

Mad? no just not liking something. I didn't use vulgarity or start calling names. It's Mike's game he can do what he wants, just doesn't mean i'm gonna pay for it

[juicemalone]

If you predict your opponent's sliders 100% does the pay off depend on the guessing fighter's experience and intelligence too? It seems that when using the past fight history option it has a lot to do with intelligence and experience, but what if you choose to guess and get it 100% right? If your fighter is dumb as rocks it shouldn't yield that much of a benefit.

 

Personally I would prefer the historical fight data option to be the only option. Just make it a slider or a check box.

[MMATycoon]

The intelligence and experience only comes into play if you guessed wrong, or if that stats from previous fights aren't accurate for the current fight, i.e. they are how well your fighter adapts from the initial gameplan to the reality of how the fight is going.

 

I've had more positive replies to that PM I just sent out than any update I've done before, so hopefully anyone with any reservations will get used to it / not see it as a big deal once it's in operation.

[SteelPenn]

I like it.

[METAL666nz]

Awesome. It will be interesting to see if fights become a bit more diverse in the way players approach there planning.

[juicemalone]

Ok what is defined as guessing wrong?

 

If his slider is set to 95% counter and you guess 70% does the game say you guessed right because he is still favoring counters?

[MMATycoon]

it's a sliding scale. so anything other than exactly right would be "wrong" and you'd slowly adjust to the "right" settings, from totally off or one percent off.

[Bwang]

Is the different tactics per round feature still a possibility Mike?

[MMATycoon]

I don't think so. I just don't really get it. I know I basically brought it up in the first place but the more I think about it, the more I just feel it's a complete crapshoot, having to guess multiple rounds worth of opponent tactics.

[Bwang]

Yeah I wouldn't want to try and guess my opponents tactics in every round but to vary my tactics per round. Different thing altogether.

[MMATycoon]

Yes but to decide what you want to do yourself, you have to guess what your opponent will be doing.

[Guest]

OK, so as many of you will know I am currently totally revamping counters and how they work. I'm making it so that we will see failed counter attempts as well as totally changing how we work out success rates for counters. During this process I've been re-thinking how I want to calculate the success rate of both counters and offensive moves.

 

Background: At the moment the more infrequently you set your sliders to do a move, the more likely it is to land. So if you set e.g. head punches to 10%, they are more likely to land than if you set them to 20%, because of that "surprise factor" or whatever you want to call it. Call this a success modifier.

 

 

 

Having spent more time thinking about it, this is a bit of a fudge. It works as a concept once the fight has been going for a round or so but let's say you come into a fight with a totally unpredictable gameplan and go for 100% takedowns with a striker; this system basically gives your opponent magical predicting powers straight from the first bell and your chance of landing a takedown is massively diminished because you set that slider so high. Basically that's rubbish.

 

I have begun reworking that process and instead of using your slider tactics to modify success rate, I've used your fighter's stats over his entire fight history.... N.B. the only problem being we haven't stored clinch attempts / successes at all so we'll have to fudge that.

 

As the fight then progresses, we tally up attempted attacks (offensive and counter) from your opponent, and adjust these values gradually over the course of the first 30 to 50 moves depending on experience and intelligence.

 

So that's a muuuuch more logical system because it mimics gameplanning / prior knowledge of your opponent but does not assume your fighter can guess the opponent's gameplan for the current fight. However, it's a bit lacking for counters in particular because there is no differentiation in the previous fight's stats for whether it was an offensive move or a counter.

 

 

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO eventually, here is my question;

 

Would you guys like the OPTION (not required), to predict your opponent's standup & counter sliders to use as the initial base values instead of previous fight stats? I'd just give you a set of sliders that you'd set exactly like you set your own, which would be your prediction of your opponent's tactics. If you predicted high counter takedowns for example, your fighter would be pre-prepared and would be more likely to defend against them. Again though, as the fight progresses, these modifier numbers would adjust to what was actually happening in the fight.

 

If you didn't choose to set up your opponent's slider predictions, we can default to using their historical fight stats.

 

 

 

I'm always striving for more realism and I think this is a massively more realistic situation than what we had before both using the stats but obviously moreso using your own predictions. What do you guys think?

 

 

edit; please read my next two replies down the page if you are unsure how it works.

im on it big time...

[shortfuse122829]

I think you should be able to change your sliders per round, I think it'd be awesome to be able to game-plan a fight like that. Let's say for instance your fighting a guy like Neo Kable who has 26 wins and 26 KO's (most in the 1st round) & you think his game-plan is going to be chin hunt, so in the 1st round you want to try to avoid getting hit with any big shots & let him tire himself out a little bit. You could go like 85 counter in the 1st round. Then in the 2nd round once you think he's gassed himself out a little bit you could start trying to pick up the pace & go 70 agg 70 acc. & then in the 3rd round (assuming it's tied 1 to 1 since you were inactive in round 1) you could choose to follow the same strategy as round 2 or even dig down & go for the KO to avoid a decision.

 

That kinda strategy isn't really even possible now. If I go 85 counter I'm just going to be 85 counter the whole fight. The only hope I have of getting any kinda aggression out of my fighter would be if my opponent showed "breathing heavily" at some point in the fight and stopped throwing. The chances of that when on 85 counter for 3 rounds would be unlikely because you wouldn't be landing enough shots to really cause that kinda damage. You would have to hope that he goes like 25 (3) head punches or something like that, but most likely he'd miss early and slowly as he started to land he'd find more success as the fight wore on.

 

I just think it makes more sense to be able to plan out a whole fight like that

[shortfuse122829]

I wasn't really thinking in terms of you implementing your "guess strategy" thing & I do understand how that would certainly make things complicated to try to guess 3 rounds worth of opponents sliders. But that is also an optional feature is it not? I will likely attempt to use it just to determine risk/reward factor before deciding if I will use it in the majority of my fights or not, but I think the 3 round thing should already be in existence tbh. I don't think the "guess strategy" should factor into play on deciding whether to use that or not

[rodrigokrojas]

I like fudge

 

And on first thoughts.. I'm not sure, I always predict what my opponent will do and try to counter that by using my own sliders. To set the sliders I think he(or she) will do will take up a little bit more time, maybe be a little more frustrating if you get it wrong.

 

However I feel like it will create more diversity, people may try out new game plans to surprise. But then the game is now a "fight predictor" and the people that predict fights now win... Is that completely fair? I mean a lot of fighters in real life, like Donald Cerrone for example have a "I don't give a shit about my opponent" attitude and proceed to beat them anyway.

 

I would rather historical. I think it makes it more realistic.

I agree

[j666]

the way I do it, is set my sliders to my fighter's strengths, not my opponent's.

 

if ur setting sliders based off of what u think ur opponent will do, then ur already (unofficially) doing what this thread is about.

[MMATycoon]

I wasn't really thinking in terms of you implementing your "guess strategy" thing & I do understand how that would certainly make things complicated to try to guess 3 rounds worth of opponents sliders. But that is also an optional feature is it not? I will likely attempt to use it just to determine risk/reward factor before deciding if I will use it in the majority of my fights or not, but I think the 3 round thing should already be in existence tbh. I don't think the "guess strategy" should factor into play on deciding whether to use that or not

 

When I was talking about my guessing tactics, I didn't mean setting the new tactics, I just meant setting your own current tactics.

 

Right now you set your sliders based on what you think your opponent is going to do but if they could be doing different things every round, you're not going to be able to predict it well enough. You could think your opponent is going to "go for takedowns in round one so i will stay back and counter". But actually your opponent does exactly the same thing as you.

 

When you have whole fight tactics, you at least know the opponent will have a general gameplan to try and win the fight and you can try and counteract that. Whereas round by round I think we'd have too many situations where people try and over think things and we'd end up with very odd tactics up against eachother, making for frustrating fights where you go "urgh, this whole round's tactics are worthless now".

 

Round by round allows for more varied / extreme sets of tactics for each round but if we have a situation where A is a good tactic if he does B but a stupid tactic if he does C then it becomes far too much about luck.

 

It just ends up being too much about luck and essentially you'd have people winning fights like a high stakes version of rock paper scissors.... Your sliders wouldn't be any better or worse than your opponent, you just happened to pick the scissors for round 1 instead of round 2. I hope that makes sense.