Training Changes

[Guest]

"This is a general notice to inform everyone that the values associated with training will be changing over the course of the next week or so. First of all, training will begin to take more energy - at the moment, a lot of training doesn't tire out your fighters at all, which is unrealistic. A big part of this is the over exaggerated effects of supplements within the game, so supplements will become less effective, although they will still very much be worth taking - don't worry about that... Additionally, we will be introducing a new aspect to the game - your fighters will begin to start leaving you comments about their training, as well as other bits and pieces they do in their every day life. In general, these changes will need some adaptation from gym owners and managers alike but it shouldn't be as big an upheaval as some may have you believe."

- Spoiler Page

 

For one, I'll admit don't exactly like the new sparring changes, but it's clearly a problem. Sure, let the people who neglect their physicals and specific skills keep doing that, but what about the ones who've been smart enough to mix things up? They likely have Frankenstein-like monsters of destruction on their hands. Thus, I completely have no problem with the change and appreciated the warnings we received far in advance.

 

But, this? WHAT. THE. HELL?! Energy levels take big hits for people with weaker cardio. Most of the people not experiencing major energy loss have Superb conditioning or better and are using 150+ recovery supplements, which considering the Useless to Elite scale, is about right. Hell, I think the effectiveness of Weight supplements could use a big boost, especially with all the weight issues in the game. The plans to reduce the effectiveness of Cardio and Weight training was understandable, but this simply leaves me scratching my head in confusion.

 

Who complained about this? Did any of the members even believe this to be a problem with the game? Even if this was on "the list" so to speak, if there's going to be energy changes made in the game, it definitely needs to address spamming. No one should be able to attempt more than 100 Takedowns in a single fight or 10 sub attempts in just a few minutes. Not just ground related spamming, but standing as well. Seriously, who gives a damn about whether the game engine randomly assigns your fighter to start regularly dating a broad he met at the mall or some crap? I've generally been on board with most of the changes made. This however, sucks.

[HBK]

Is there ANY other way so they dont have to touch the Supplements and cardio/weights? cause this is kinda disappointing

[MMATycoon]

More complaining without knowing what the changes will be. Excellent. Perhaps this change is going to deal with those exact issues? Heaven forbid I might actually be looking at the numbers and working out how to improve them... that would be ludicrous.

 

SERIOUSLY, people stop complaining about things when you have no idea how it will work. Pointless, pointless, pointless.

 

Edit - What you CAN do is suggest thing that you think would make anything to do with training better. I will open the thread back up for contributions along those lines - if people start complaining about things they can't possibly understand yet (because the calculations haven't even been made yet), I'll close the thread again.

[MMATycoon]

I have changed the post on the spoiler page to include a couple of things that people would consider positive. This would all have happened anyway but I realise people need the positive stuff to be more overt, obviously.

 

"This is a general notice to inform everyone that the values associated with training will be changing over the course of the next week or so. First of all, training will begin to take more energy at the top end of the conditioning spectrum but less at the bottom. At the moment, a lot of training doesn't tire out your fighters at all, which is unrealistic. A big part of this is the over exaggerated effects of supplements within the game, so supplements will become less effective, although they will still very much be worth taking - don't worry about that! We may also see a small increase in recovery speed when your fighters are doing no training.

 

Additionally, as many will already know, the sparring system will be altered, using a diminishing returns policy, much like other aspects of the game. If you train sparring sessions excessively, you will receive less benefit from the latter training sessions. Additionally, we will be introducing a new aspect to the game - your fighters will begin to start leaving you comments about their training, as well as other bits and pieces they do in their every day life. In general, these changes will need some adaptation from gym owners and managers alike but it shouldn't be as big an upheaval as some may have you believe."

[j666]

i got no problem with any of it. i don't do spam-training and have never felt the urge to do so. seems a bit boring. i love the idea of the random e-mails from ur fighters. anything that "brings them to life" is cool wit me. but i also write bios for my fighters and fake celebration stories after a win so it kinda works out. lol.

 

i think the only people that have a problem wit this stuff are a- taking this shit too serious or b- don't care about the game, only wins and status (money, hype and the like)...it's just a game. calm down and have some fun.

 

thanks mike t

[Grey]

Mike, I think that you can't be surprised with people freaking out over imaginary stuff when you haven't provided us with actual concrete details besides "hey guys, there's going to be some changes to an integral part of the game coming soon." Training is important to people because it's the closest thing this game has to quick gratification. People enjoy seeing their fighters improve and the changes that you're talking about all look like they're going to hurt that improvement. I agree with your decision to keep things vague when it comes to stuff like the fight engine but I think that in this case, telling us that you've changed some stuff and it's up to us to figure out exactly how will result in all the gnashing of teeth that have irritated you so much. I think that for these new changes, it'd be wise if you raise the curtain a bit and ease everyone's fears instead of just telling us to trust you and leaving it at that.

 

Personally, I'm curious how different types of sparring will be treated. Will diminishing returns kick in if I do a wrestling session after a boxing session? Is it a sliding scale of diminishing returns or is it after a certain number? It's really hard to figure out how fast fighters are learning to begin with and I have no idea where to begin gauging these new rules if you leave it up to us.

[Guest]

Invictus, .

 

I love the new changes, or at least I think I will.

[ShaneOMac]

After reading the vague description of the training changes, it's going to suck for those people who just created fighters with 10 cardio and 1 strength. Seems like training time is going to double before they even set foot in the Octogon. On another note I really like the fact that the changes are vague. It adds some depth to being a manager and creates seperation. The managers who don't understand how the system works will lag behind and the ones who do will jump ahead. Honestly people the mystery of not knowing how it works is going to be a fun aspect. Sure it's going to be fraustrating at first, but when you finally do get it, it will be gratifying to see yourself jump ahead of the pack.

[MMATycoon]

Mike, I think that you can't be surprised with people freaking out over imaginary stuff when you haven't provided us with actual concrete details besides "hey guys, there's going to be some changes to an integral part of the game coming soon." Training is important to people because it's the closest thing this game has to quick gratification. People enjoy seeing their fighters improve and the changes that you're talking about all look like they're going to hurt that improvement. I agree with your decision to keep things vague when it comes to stuff like the fight engine but I think that in this case, telling us that you've changed some stuff and it's up to us to figure out exactly how will result in all the gnashing of teeth that have irritated you so much. I think that for these new changes, it'd be wise if you raise the curtain a bit and ease everyone's fears instead of just telling us to trust you and leaving it at that.

 

Personally, I'm curious how different types of sparring will be treated. Will diminishing returns kick in if I do a wrestling session after a boxing session? Is it a sliding scale of diminishing returns or is it after a certain number? It's really hard to figure out how fast fighters are learning to begin with and I have no idea where to begin gauging these new rules if you leave it up to us.

The thing is, when you all joined you didn't have this sort of information. Nobody knows how much effect supplements have on reducing energy for example, unless they did some research and worked it out.

 

So I'm not just going to give away equations and levels of effect that stuff has, just because people are freaking out. People's fighters aren't going to implode if they have slower than optimum training for a few days or weeks before they figure it out, so that's why I'm not going to answer every question about how the changes will work - as I say, that would be more information than is out there about the current system!

[MMATycoon]

After reading the vague description of the training changes, it's going to suck for those people who just created fighters with 10 cardio and 1 strength. Seems like training time is going to double before they even set foot in the Octogon.

No, that's not going to be the case at all. Seriously, can you perhaps just not expect the absolute worst every time?

 

OK, here's a rewriting of the above post.

 

"After reading the description, what I hope is that people can still train up conditioning and strength relatively quickly".

 

DO NOT SPECULATE. Ask questions if you want to ask questions, make suggestions if you want to make suggestions, but do not make statements which are completely wrong, based on your completely unfounded guesswork.

 

People that keep doing this are going to get a 5 day forum ban because it's a waste of time and keeps leading these threads down complete dead ends. It might seem like that's an overreaction but it's these sort of posts that are the equivalent of throwing a lit match onto a pile of kindling... it spirals out of control quickly and leads to much, much worse than the initial misguided comment. Without that match, there would be no fire.

[Guest]

The thing is, when you all joined you didn't have this sort of information. Nobody knows how much effect supplements have on reducing energy for example, unless they did some research and worked it out.

 

So I'm not just going to give away equations and levels of effect that stuff has, just because people are freaking out. People's fighters aren't going to implode if they have slower than optimum training for a few days or weeks before they figure it out, so that's why I'm not going to answer every question about how the changes will work - as I say, that would be more information than is out there about the current system!

 

Your re-write on the spoiler page was enough to put me at ease. besides. It's not like we're seeing a big change and a complete drop in any effort to improve. in a little over a month I've seen so many changes happen to this game it's awesome. Whatever falls off balance will be fixed is gonna be my new way of taking any announcements you throw at us.

 

Keep it up. I don't expect you wanna ruin something you've spent so much of your time and money on.

 

And the balanced stamina setup is going to be GREAT. guys in good shape get tired too for sure!

[Grey]

The thing is, when you all joined you didn't have this sort of information. Nobody knows how much effect supplements have on reducing energy for example, unless they did some research and worked it out.

 

So I'm not just going to give away equations and levels of effect that stuff has, just because people are freaking out. People's fighters aren't going to implode if they have slower than optimum training for a few days or weeks before they figure it out, so that's why I'm not going to answer every question about how the changes will work - as I say, that would be more information than is out there about the current system!

 

But do people really actually figure things out? People still don't know how effective yoga is versus circuit training. If the game becomes so complex that it requires someone to visit the forums every day to decipher it, new users are even more screwed than before. Like I said, I agree with you on keeping things secret up until now but I also think that you can't be shocked when you give the users only vague mentions of drastic changes and people start freaking out and rumor-monging. I still think that for this one instance, you don't need to lay out your mathematical formulas and make the engine open source or anything but the current level of detail that's currenly being given is frustratingly vague. I understand your rationale for these changes but with the exception of the fighter messages, the changes you're talking about will make the game less satisfying. It's not fun to rest, nor is it fun to have a particular area you need to train for an upcoming fight but can't work on it due to some arbitrary rule.

 

Anyway, here's something to consider when thinking about realistic levels of training. Go to youtube or mma-core and watch some of the UFC All Access shows. The fighters profiled train 2-3 times a day, six days a week. They don't spar for every single one of those sessions but they also train something for the equivalent of every single available slot in Tycoonland. If you don't want people to only do sparring for an entire week due to realism consideration, have conditioning and strength constantly deteriorate over time. Fighters with elite level conditioning are that way because they're always doing cardio, not because they did a month long conditioning camp four months ago. If fighters had to do cardio and weights several times a week to maintain their current levels, that would go a long way toward forcing people to diversify their training.

 

p.s. I'd still like to know about the effect on different types of sparring, by the way.

[Guest]

And the balanced stamina setup is going to be GREAT.

Hey, are you the human yo-yo? None of the updates changed, just your assumptions.

 

I'm very curious after the fighter feedback for training. Maybe it reveals something more about training than we already know.

[Guest]

i am accually looking to these new changes, and being able to talk to my fighters

[Guest]

Hey, are you the human yo-yo? None of the updates changed, just your assumptions.

 

I'm very curious after the fighter feedback for training. Maybe it reveals something more about training than we already knew.

 

Lol!

 

Jeez. are you out of weed or something?

 

He said in my last post (which has been closed) that he updated the spoiler to include uppers-one KEY upper was that high stamina fighters would see increased wear and tear from training but lower level stamina fighters would be able to work a little longer than they do now with the possibility of increased recovery time. What are you trying to prove with all your name calling and hostility? I recall you saying I'm a cry baby for my last thread, now you're here calling me a yo-yo. Get over it man... we're just venting steam and waiting for the changes which from what I can tell are pretty well thought out after all.

 

Here's the new version, with some "uppers", so that people don't think it's all going wrong again.

 

This is a general notice to inform everyone that the values associated with training will be changing over the course of the next week or so. First of all, training will begin to take more energy at the top end of the conditioning spectrum but less at the bottom. At the moment, a lot of training doesn't tire out your fighters at all, which is unrealistic. A big part of this is the over exaggerated effects of supplements within the game, so supplements will become less effective, although they will still very much be worth taking - don't worry about that! We may also see a small increase in recovery speed when your fighters are doing no training.

 

can you just be cool for one minute of your life?

[Guest]

After reading the vague description of the training changes, it's going to suck for those people who just created fighters with 10 cardio and 1 strength. Seems like training time is going to double before they even set foot in the Octogon. On another note I really like the fact that the changes are vague. It adds some depth to being a manager and creates seperation. The managers who don't understand how the system works will lag behind and the ones who do will jump ahead. Honestly people the mystery of not knowing how it works is going to be a fun aspect. Sure it's going to be fraustrating at first, but when you finally do get it, it will be gratifying to see yourself jump ahead of the pack.

As someone who just started playing in the last week, and did create fighters largely along those lines due to reading the wiki and posts in the noob forum, I'm not that worried about it. And not just because I didn't believe this would be true even prior to reading Mike's further clarifying posts. I wouldn't be worried about it even if this was exactly what the changes resulted in. This is a game, one that still is in Beta(ish), so I expected there would be changes when I joined. From reading the forums this past week, it certainly sounds like there are a variety of areas that still need tweaking, many of them dealing with various means people have found to basically "exploit" the current game engine. Seems like Mike is trying to do what he can to fix things to make a better game that will be playable for a longer time by a greater number of people. Sure, some changes may cause problems for those who have started under the old engine, but it's a game and people can adjust. I may have just created five cans this past week, but if that turns out to be the case, eventually I can sack them and start over with new guys. But I might as well give these five a go first and see both how they do and what I can learn with them.

 

As you say, the mystery of not knowing how a simulation (whether it be a sports, economic, or social simulation) game works is a great part of the fun. It shouldn't be easy and quick to "master" such a game - it should require effort and patience. If I wanted a quick fix, I'd be playing a button masher video game; not a text-based simulation.

[MMATycoon]

So people don't know which is better between yoga and circuits. How is that harming anything? Isn't it better that people don't know? Regarding sparring, again, you'll have to wait and see. I am storing how many of each individual sparring type people are doing over a period of time AND the overall number of sparring sessions. I don't even know myself what I'm going to do with the numbers yet but I would imagine it will look at a combination of the two.

 

The news post was meant to be a heads up for people to watch their training changes more carefully in the coming week. It's there in case someone was planning to set training for a week and then just leave it, for example, only to return and find unexpected results (particularly energy levels). If this sort of panic/questioning is going to happen every time any news is posted, I'll not be posting news ahead of time, I'll just be implementing stuff and then telling everyone after it's been implemented. That way hopefully people won't be frustated, waiting for the changes to come into place.

 

It's seriously no more vague than anything else though. Look at the wiki - it basically goes "training takes energy." "take supplements and it takes up less energy". Nobody complained about the vagueness of those instructions - just see what happens!

 

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Laters amigos - stop worrying!

[Guest]

As someone who just started playing in the last week, and did create fighters largely along those lines due to reading the wiki and posts in the noob forum, I'm not that worried about it. And not just because I didn't believe this would be true even prior to reading Mike's further clarifying posts. I wouldn't be worried about it even if this was exactly what the changes resulted in. This is a game, one that still is in Beta(ish), so I expected there would be changes when I joined. From reading the forums this past week, it certainly sounds like there are a variety of areas that still need tweaking, many of them dealing with various means people have found to basically "exploit" the current game engine. Seems like Mike is trying to do what he can to fix things to make a better game that will be playable for a longer time by a greater number of people. Sure, some changes may cause problems for those who have started under the old engine, but it's a game and people can adjust. I may have just created five cans this past week, but if that turns out to be the case, eventually I can sack them and start over with new guys. But I might as well give these five a go first and see both how they do and what I can learn with them.

 

As you say, the mystery of not knowing how a simulation (whether it be a sports, economic, or social simulation) game works is a great part of the fun. It shouldn't be easy and quick to "master" such a game - it should require effort and patience. If I wanted a quick fix, I'd be playing a button masher video game; not a text-based simulation.

 

Well said!

[Guest]

can you just be cool for one minute of your life?

Can't see that that's a bit ironic?

 

If I called you names it's because they reflect on the statements in your last posts. I don't like it when people start complaining without a clue. Or when they start screaming fire and than moments later act like everything is GREAT.

[Guest]

Invictus,

Yeah, God forbid someone dislike Mike's changes without even resorting to insults.

 

i love the idea of the random e-mails from ur fighters. anything that "brings them to life" is cool wit me. but i also write bios for my fighters and fake celebration stories after a win so it kinda works out. lol.

 

i think the only people that have a problem wit this stuff are a- taking this shit too serious or b- don't care about the game, only wins and status (money, hype and the like)...it's just a game. calm down and have some fun.

The problem I have with it this: People have been complaining about spam tactics for MONTHS. People have been complaining about the lack of effect energy had during the course of a fight for MONTHS.

 

Hell, Mike himself can't even count the number of threads complaining about that stuff.

 

And instead of seeing either of those long-awaited changes, energy is being changed for a completely different aspect of the game and it's a change that's demand was little to none.

 

It's like dealing with someone that repeatedly demanded apples for them to make apple pie by giving them oranges and telling to them to make orange juice instead.

 

I don't get that.

[LeviAJones]

It's seriously no more vague than anything else though. Look at the wiki - it basically goes "training takes energy." "take supplements and it takes up less energy". Nobody complained about the vagueness of those instructions - just see what happens!

 

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Laters amigos - stop worrying!

 

Yes, we did. Stop by chat sometime

 

Overall, I'm not worried about the changes. I think people should wait to see how it works out before flipping out. But I think the vagueness of your replies is what is driving them mad. Will our fighter quit a particular type of training after 3 sessions a week? 6? Does the fighter think of all types of sparring as one group and will get tired of doing any sparring after a set number? It's frustrating for those of us that spend lots of time trying to perfect our training and supplementation regimen.

 

But like you said, nobody is going to be totally screwed if their training isn't optimized for a day or two or even a week. We'll just have to wait and see how everything plays out.

[iloveme8]

Anyone asking for Mike to give specifics, any more than what he already has, is being naive. You're not supposed to know exactly how everything works, otherwise we'd all just run statistical models and have our fighters at maximum efficiency in no time. You're not supposed to know what the most effective thing is because you don't know that in real life either.

 

I'm glad Mike has articulated what he's going to do, as I think it's cleared up a mass of confusion as to what the sparring changes were going to be. I don't agree with the changes but I'll support what he's doing and trust in him that his changes will improve the game, as the rest of you should. It's done. Your arguments are futile. Suck it up and adapt.

[Guest]

Can't see that that's a bit ironic?

 

If I called you names it's because they reflect on the statements in your last posts. I don't like it when people start complaining without a clue. Or when they start screaming fire and than moments later act like everything is GREAT.

 

The best part of all this is that you are putting the words "run, fire!" in my mouth when that was the last thing I was saying. I could care less what you don't like and I really do see these changes in a whole new light because of the slight but effective clarifications Mike made... are you TRYING to get this thread closed too? The baby sucking a passifier post towards invictus,... what good can that do? You come off like a total d-bag and you say it's justified to call us names and insult our opinions because ...? ...? ...?

 

Maybe you're just a mean spirited dude.

 

Guess what? We asked questions, aired concerns, we got an answer and now we're a little more at ease. What did you do to help this along? NOTHING but start arguments. Please stop. For the sake of moving everything along. PLEASE stop.

[Guest]

Yeah, God forbid someone dislike Mike's changes without even resorting to insults.

 

The problem I have with it this: People have been complaining about spam tactics for MONTHS. People have been complaining about the lack of effect energy had during the course of a fight for MONTHS.

Yeah, God forbid some changes without somebody complaining about it like a little baby.

 

If I knew that you would feel insulted by a smiley than I wouldn't have used it. But the fact that do is an affirmation that I used the right one. It's not the dislike, it are the baseless assumptions and needless complaining.

 

People weren't complaining about not being able to use their pc to communicate with eachother either, and yet they created the internet. I don't see how that's an argument.

 

I could care less what you don't like

Again, I don't understand how you fail to see the irony. Well I only wish Mike T used those exact words to you, Invictus and all the other ungrateful users. No actually not those exact words, but with couldn't instead of could. How can you, after using that phrase against me, still think that you have any right to complain?

[Guest]

You just don't know when to quit do you? Goddamn. I asked you to stop with the insults, I asked you to just be cool. You can't fuckin' do it. All I can do is toss my hands up and realize that some people are just assholes and won't be reasoned with. You edited your post TWICE just to act arrogant. I would ask that you please just don't even read any of my threads if you come across them but I know you will just for the sake of trolling. It's sick, man. real sick. But I guess there's one like you in every forum.

 

This thread was satisfied the minute Mike clarified his changes. But you still insist we complained and cried screaming fire when all we did was make a few points to be addressed, they were addressed, world keeps spinning right? I don't even know why I'm still trying to be cool with you. I just don't see the point in making enemies on a forum. You really don't find this hostility to be a totally unnecessary buzzkill in an otherwise awesome community?