senjinone Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Hey! Is it correct that the escape training is broken? If so, is it worth training at all or how should you deal with it? // Crissy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HareRumpler Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Saw this mentioned in the other thread as well and was a bit shocked, because I have a few fighters I do train it on. But honestly, haven't tracked gains vs. other training of skills. So yeah, I mighta been doing it uselessly. So the obvious question is...what is the best way to deal with it? Not bother with escapes at all? Change the approach and load up escapes with 110 right off the bat to get a jump on a harder to train skill (if you think escapes is important to your build plan), plan to never use a fighter that needs to try to escape? That seems awfully boring. No wonder so many fights that go to the ground end up in subs one way or the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackking Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Great question and I'm wondering this myself. On the updates page I think it says it was slowed down, but apparently too much. The only thing I can confirm is that escapes definitely trains slower than the other secondaries... Still I'm not sure what the best option is if you are trying to build a stand-up fighter. I'll wait for one of the resident experts to weigh in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skull Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Not sure how it is now, I remember a yr or so ago it was beefed up to train faster. It came in handy for a while until everyone started crying that it was overpowered so now the old way of controlling until you get a ref stand up is easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Id say it is 2/3 of the speed of other secondaries. I know CK has listed how many classes its taken his guys to reach whatever but they must be seriously slow learners to start with! I still train my guys in it. Let me go and look at some stats for you... Ok, its taken 50 classes for one of my young guns to get tkd def and def grap to 12, its taken 72 to get escapes to 12. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackking Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Bwang, thanks for the stats! You were very close with your 2/3rds speed guess. With this in mind, do you still think it is worthwhile to train escapes for stand-up builds, or switch to transitions and hope for a ref stand up as skull suggests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 I feel like transitions are better, since escapes are probably harder to get from a bad ground position. The way I see it, get taken down into side control, you suddenly wish you had good transitions to get a better position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Not sure how it is now, I remember a yr or so ago it was beefed up to train faster. It came in handy for a while until everyone started crying that it was overpowered so now the old way of controlling until you get a ref stand up is easier When instant escapes where added and on ground escapes where made more effective, Mike increased escape training to 5X or 6X the normal rate to allow old fighters to add them instead of doing a reallocation of points. This got left for a year or more and then he finally tried to take it back to a normal level and got something wrong and now it's slower then it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 When instant escapes where added and on ground escapes where made more effective, Mike increased escape training to 5X or 6X the normal rate to allow old fighters to add them instead of doing a reallocation of points. This got left for a year or more and then he finally tried to take it back to a normal level and got something wrong and now it's slower then it should be. should be an instant fix. got faith he'll put down the plunger long enough to get 'er done. I feel like transitions are better, since escapes are probably harder to get from a bad ground position. The way I see it, get taken down into side control, you suddenly wish you had good transitions to get a better position. You can instant-escape out of side control. Shit, I've had fighters and opponents escape out of mount iirc. Definitely escape out of side control. Escapes seemed super OP for a while before the nerf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 IIRC Mike has said before that readjusting the escapes training speed to normal was more difficult that hed imagined and he couldnt figure it out at that time. Probably fixable with a bit of attention though? In terms of game tactics I prefer escapes to transitions these days (although I wouldnt neglect transitions either). You can escape from anywhere. Thats why having a takedown gnp/sub specialist is so rare and tricky; when youve finally managed to get a takedown and expended energy getting there the opponent can pop up from wherever. But dont let me put anyone off trying to make those takedown guys, Im happy to face them as often as possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 IIRC Mike has said before that readjusting the escapes training speed to normal was more difficult that hed imagined and he couldnt figure it out at that time. Probably fixable with a bit of attention though? In terms of game tactics I prefer escapes to transitions these days (although I wouldnt neglect transitions either). You can escape from anywhere. Thats why having a takedown gnp/sub specialist is so rare and tricky; when youve finally managed to get a takedown and expended energy getting there the opponent can pop up from wherever. But dont let me put anyone off trying to make those takedown guys, Im happy to face them as often as possible! I came here to say something along the lines of... "Don Juan Matus would disagree with you x3 vs grapple builds vs my stable." but looking back on post fight statistics, the odds and % of successful TD weren't very good, despite what the w/L ratio may indicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 You can instant-escape out of side control. Shit, I've had fighters and opponents escape out of mount iirc. Definitely escape out of side control. "... escapes are probably harder to get from a bad ground position ..." I'm sure its possible to escape from anywhere, but if I would use my experience with the game's logic, it would make sense to assume that a bad position on the ground equals less chances of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 I came here to say something along the lines of... "Don Juan Matus would disagree with you x3 vs grapple builds vs my stable." but looking back on post fight statistics, the odds and % of successful TD weren't very good, despite what the w/L ratio may indicate. Don Juan was made in the era when escapes did nothing at all, back when they were completely useless. I had to learn with him the hold-on-and-control-and-wait-for-the-ref-to-get-involved. (..that was a lot of hyphens to type..) Its still a more risky technique than having escapes because youll lose time and rounds doing jack sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJMitchell Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 Fix plz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur.Camara Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 We are fixig this, the faster someone gives me an educated guess the faster we do it, I think Mike and I can fix this by Friday: http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63717&page=2 If nobody has an aswer I will go with 20% thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackking Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 Camara, Bwang gave the % above. Escapes train ~30.55% slower than the other secondaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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