Rollins Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Yeah it was a bit random but communication is the key to a healthy relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 my fantasy > yours...159 > 158 no matter what way you cut it...go experiment on that one genius. i have no idea what this even means? its clearly harder to start a nutrition company now than it was for the older players. none of the older players had to compete against inexpensive 159+ supplements. plus theres just so many more companies now than b4 although theres always new ppl joining the game, but i dont know if that balances out cos those new ppl can afford 159+ y wouldnt anyone want it for clothing companies? are u scared you might sell out and someone might have to go searching around and see the hard work that someone else has put in? i think if you coupled limited supplies with meaningful sponsorship, then you would have the biggest money sink there is the competition over highly hyped fighters would be insane, but at the same time you would have to balance out how much you spent on sponsorships vs. how much $ you could make off of your given amount of clothes for that week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 y wouldnt anyone want it for clothing companies? are u scared you might sell out and someone might have to go searching around and see the hard work that someone else has put in? Are you serious? Why would I want to sell out? What store has the goal to have the shelves empty? What store doesn't want to expand as more folks join and new cities are made, which means more org and gym bulk sales? Folks are welcome to check out other shops, and most new users do. But I've worked hard to get my name out, develop relationships and sponsor fighters. New managers are often told to come to me for sponsorships by the orgs or in chat. I was #5 in Helsinki when I opened. No one came to my shop because Bushido or Boondock (the top 2 clothing at the time) sold out and met the authorized quota. If other owners are to lazy, unoriginal, or have less popular designs, they should get extra "unearned" sales because I met my cap? That's a lot of crap if ever I heard one, and you know it. As for supps, I have no business commenting b/c I don't own a supp store, but a lot of folks complained so something had to be done. I have seen so many complaints regarding us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Are you serious? Why would I want to sell out? What store has the goal to have the shelves empty? What store doesn't want to expand as more folks join and new cities are made, which means more org and gym bulk sales? Folks are welcome to check out other shops, and most new users do. But I've worked hard to get my name out, develop relationships and sponsor fighters. New managers are often told to come to me for sponsorships by the orgs or in chat. I was #5 in Helsinki when I opened. No one came to my shop because Bushido or Boondock (the top 2 clothing at the time) sold out and met the authorized quota. If other owners are to lazy, unoriginal, or have less popular designs, they should get extra "unearned" sales because I met my cap? That's a lot of crap if ever I heard one, and you know it. As for supps, I have no business commenting b/c I don't own a supp store, but a lot of folks complained so something had to be done. I have seen so many complaints regarding us well, those are some good points. ima just take your advice and ima just back off and let the ppl that actually own the companies decide what they want to do. they have a better idea of what needs to be done than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Just an observation, but it seems like my 7 day sales number has gone down from earlier this morning? It was around 540ish and now it is 502... just curious if this is a rolling count or what is going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Just an observation, but it seems like my 7 day sales number has gone down from earlier this morning? It was around 540ish and now it is 502... just curious if this is a rolling count or what is going on? Its 12:10am in the UK now so i think thats why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 yep, it's the last 7 days, not the week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 yep, it's the last 7 days, not the week makes sense now, didn't know if it was sunday to sunday, seems as thought it is a rolling count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 A) Like PBR said, some you knuckleheads don't advertise. When I had a nutrition company, I advertised everyday just like the two giants did. Thats why I had a chance at all. That and I put out the first major supplement and gained respect from people for risking my company and money in doing so. I was in debt the first week and didn't even have a supplement to sell but when I did it flew off the shelves because I let people know about my product. Lots of those companies don't advertise AND have lots of "high quality" merchandise. I could only afford to make Stud Muffins, making another product was a wet dream at best. So when I see a company I don't know with two products over 145, I automatically start wondering if those products are real. So when they don't advertise, I just assume they're fake and buy something else. quick thought on B)Yeah selling my product cheap wasn't the best move in the world, but it was fun to see the market react, lol. C) I saw someone mention something about ppl not using their own stuff. The only strength sups I've ever used and ever will use are my own Stud Muffins After that I look to legit sellers for my other sups. D) The root of the problem stems from the sheep effect at the start of the game when everyone looked for someone to stand next to so they would come out stronger than those who just played by themselves. It worked for most, but a few played their cards fast and right and made a killing. The sheep shouldn't blame the shepherd when they go to slaughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizzyB Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 seems like a whole lotta fixing things that weren't broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 so i guess i better clarify my post just in case people got the wrong idea. i do use my own stuff...the 153 (which wasn't made by me OR my money that i don't have lol). it was already researched when i bought the company. i did make the 141 with loan money (little did i know that it would cost a lot more than 40k to make an hq) but i preferred to use higher quality stamina supps when most of my guys were still doing cardio (most are passed cardio stage so i don't use much stamina at all, from any company). i haven't amassed enough money to make a hq energy loss yet so i've pretty much had to use someone else's but you can bet your ass that when i do finally get it, i'll be using it. so don't get it twisted. just cuz dude's ain't using their own 140(and lower)/lq supps...doesn't mean it isn't what they say it is. it just means that they realize there's better stuff out there and they're just trying to "hold on" until they can get better quality stuff. and yes didm...a whole lotta fix it til it's broke goin' on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Just a quick comment regarding the clothing cap again, prompted by Hell's Balls closing. As I said before, I really don't have a strong opinion either way on the clothing cap, so I was 50:50 in terms of removing it in the next few days. What I have said both publically and privately is "see how it goes for a month or so and then we'll reassess it". I would prefer to leave it for a bit and see but at the same time I'd be happy to just get it over and done with and move on with something else. However, one fundamental point is that the main clothing companies who have complained about it haven't made any effort whatsoever to adapt to the system, in fact Hell's Balls has done the exact opposite. If people played the new system like a mini-game, which is the intention, then new companies would offer good designs and or custom designs but keep the prices relatively low. When you get to an established status and you have a good userbase, you raise prices and maximise profits / balance profits to a level you are happy with. Instead, Hell's Balls have reduced prices and gone "well, if it's not how I want it, I don't want to play". That's fine, seriously, absolutely fine... But that's pushing me away from removing the cap. If people tried adapting, we see how it goes and people still don't like it, that's cool, we'll remove the cap again. But any time I make a change, people who don't like it can't just say "I'm not playing unless you change it back" and get their own way. Manfred, you've done some nice designs, have put a lot of work into the clothing company and have also handled your displeasure at the changes without any over the top shouting or antics, for which I'm grateful (same applies to everyone). However, you're also an opportunist, as we've seen previously with the server crash t-shirts etc. That's fine and a bit of fun, however you've used this rule change as an opportunity too. You were doing about 350 sales per week and by making yourself the focus of the displeasure you've got that up to 1500 per week, reducing prices and making your "Tycoon* Limited" t-shirt. You put that t-shirt at $300 but left all the others at $25... "vive la revolution". It's all opportunism, which is a perfectly valid business strategy, however it's a strategy based on working against the system and appealing to other people who are disgruntled. If all you want to do is sell products for a bit then close up, that's cool. However, if the purpose is to make a statement in attempt to get the cap lifted again, that's where I have to step in and explain my position (as I'm doing here) and explain why it's counter productive. I have no desire to spite anyone but people who hold positions of influence within the game (as part of a group of friends etc), can't try and use that power to dictate changes within the game, by stirring up unrest. So if selling out as quickly as possible and closing up shop is an attempt to get the cap removed by unrest and peer pressure then I would to do the opposite out of principle, because I can't have revolutions dictating the course of the game. It would set a very dangerous precedent. To encourage people to work against the principles of the game, to get things changed, is an invitation to make my life as difficult as possible. Everyone can work against the game if they want to, in order to prove a point. The point in this case would obviously be that "I can sell out this cap in 2 weeks, so it's pointless"... however, really the only point that it proves is that if you put the price as less than people are willing to pay for something, or you hit a nerve, then you can sell lots of t-shirts. Anyway, I'm just repeating myself now but I hope that explains the position. Ultimately, the game is going to be fine whether there is a clothing cap in place or not. The cap may well get removed but certainly not because anyone makes any statement by shutting up shop. --- So do I remove it or not? It's about a 2 minute job either way, but let's look at a couple of points. - I've brought in changes which will vastly increase overall clothing sales, so everyone will probably be doing better now, regardless. - There's a top 25 list in place, so the top 25 companies, especially the top 5, will get a nice free boost to sales. So from the above two points, that's a load of free sales to the people at the top end. Rich getting richer without any extra effort. Obviously you have to work your way to the top but once you're there it's pretty easy to stay there. Is there anything wrong with that? I dunno... maybe? The top 25 list is free advertising - you don't get free advertising in the real world. You don't have a clothing cap in the real world but that's where these two pros and cons were meant to balance eachother out. You were meant to get that free advertising but then you were meant to decide what to do with that free publicity - sell out your product at a low price or do less sales and raise your price.... as I said before, it's meant to be like a little mini game. The cap may get removed but I think we'll also introduce something else. Perhaps advertising costs or options, whereby people can buy ads that appear elsewhere on the site, for their products. Also, more hype decreases wouldn't go amiss, so that you have to sponsor people more often. Anyway, we will see. I think I'll probably do a few other bits and pieces first and revisit this in a month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Also, more hype decreases wouldn't go amiss, so that you have to sponsor people more often. so does this mean changes are going to be made to hype? cause i think there should be -- some companies hardly sponsor anyone but are full hype because of past sponsorship -- i dont think its right they should still have to sponsor to keep the hype --- i know i pm'ed on this but im just asking if thats the changes your talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'd say it's pretty clear that most want it removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 so does this mean changes are going to be made to hype? cause i think there should be -- some companies hardly sponsor anyone but are full hype because of past sponsorship -- i dont think its right they should still have to sponsor to keep the hype --- i know i pm'ed on this but im just asking if thats the changes your talking about Hype does decrease over time. I've made it go down a bit quicker the other day but will probably make it go down quicker still, so that you have to keep sponsoring more regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 that will help a lot I think, seems like there are a lot of empty sponsor slots out there, even highly ranked fighters have no sponsors, well that and they don't really need them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizzyB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 The cap on the amount of supplements a company can sell in a month is another thing that should be removed. It's like the diminishing returns the fight org's suffer when throwing too many cards. All of these things are being brought in to limit the actual "tycoonness" from the game. I'm not even sure what the point has become of being a business owner, it takes a lot of effort and time only to be limited to the success that Mr. Tycoon allows. It seems like a no brainer that the clothing company cap should be taken away, there is seriously no point in having it except to make the less successful companies (that are probably not putting in the same time or effort that others are) brought up to an even playing field (same as the diminishing returns and supp company limit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 i dont run a clothing company, but i would think that making companies compete over sponsorships would be a thrilling experience for them. but sponsorships would have to be made necessary to the game. (morale + or - ) the more hyped a company the more morale there clothing would provide. so companies would have to compete against one another for fighters. and then the outcome of every fight that your sponsored fighter would have would be important to you becos it would directly effect your companies public view/worth (hype) you could then put a lot of money into sponsorships but also sell your clothing for more money cos it offers more value to the customers, or sponsor no one and sell for really cheap and offer minimal value to customers. the top 25 list would be extremely important to sales and always changing depending on the next blockbuster sponsorship deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 i like the idea of needing to sponsor fighters but for it to be totally based on hype isnt a great idea --- then no one would want to sponsor the fighters just starting out and to be honest those are the ones who need sponsoring the most -- we cant forget the little guys and fighters just starting out is all im saying -- plus supp companies being sponsors also so not all sure what can be worked into the moral of a fighter by being sponsored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The thing that people don't seem to get about caps is this... In real life, there are limits to everything you can do. It's about size of shop/warehouse/supply chain/advertising costs/taxes/staff costs/legal costs etc. All these things can be brought in but it would mean spending weeks programming something which would have basically exactly the same effect as a simple cap. People get so anti the idea of caps that they don't realise they're just a simple solution to a complex problem. But there you go... people are almost hard wired into being opposed to the concept of a cap, so we'll just have to spend a load of time programming in more complex solutions. Unfortunately this means less time spent improving e.g. the fight engine, which I personally find frustrating. Even when it's something that operates exactly like the real world (e.g. diminishing returns for orgs), people are still opposed to it, just because of the basic concept meaning a decrease in their income or perhaps just because it's some sort of control and people like to do exactly what they want, whenever they want. Being a business owner isn't about doing exactly whatever you want to do, whenever you feel like it. There's a hell of a lot of boring and stressful stuff involved - many, many of which limit your ability to do stuff. If it took the same amount of time to do the complex solution as just putting in a cap, I'd do the complex solution. The only reason I don't is so that I can move onto improving something else sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 i dont run a clothing company, but i would think that making companies compete over sponsorships would be a thrilling experience for them. but sponsorships would have to be made necessary to the game. (morale + or - ) the more hyped a company the more morale there clothing would provide. so companies would have to compete against one another for fighters. and then the outcome of every fight that your sponsored fighter would have would be important to you becos it would directly effect your companies public view/worth (hype) you could then put a lot of money into sponsorships but also sell your clothing for more money cos it offers more value to the customers, or sponsor no one and sell for really cheap and offer minimal value to customers. the top 25 list would be extremely important to sales and always changing depending on the next blockbuster sponsorship deal The problem with getting more hype for clothes from hyped companies is that people then only buy clothes from the hyped companies. They wouldn't put their prices up - people like to sell as many clothes as they can - if anything they'd put their prices down. It would mean any new company would have to sponsor loads of people for no particular reason, even if they did really good designs. Likewise you could do an Attliction and sponsor loads of people, then sell garbage clothes. So I'm happy to introduce something else into the clothing system to make it more interesting, but we couldn't do this... It's actually something that was in my original plan but got scrapped for the above reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The problem with getting more hype for clothes from hyped companies is that people then only buy clothes from the hyped companies. They wouldn't put their prices up - people like to sell as many clothes as they can - if anything they'd put their prices down. It would mean any new company would have to sponsor loads of people for no particular reason, even if they did really good designs. Likewise you could do an Attliction and sponsor loads of people, then sell garbage clothes. So I'm happy to introduce something else into the clothing system to make it more interesting, but we couldn't do this... It's actually something that was in my original plan but got scrapped for the above reasons. im all for the caps, it evens things out which is great in my mind big companies wouldnt be able to lower theyre prices cos they would have to sell enuff of there limited supplies to afford the sponsorships that drive ppl to want to buy there clothes. it would be a balancing act between advertising spend (sponsorship) vs. possible profit with the given units they have to sell. young fighters could actually be hot sponsorship commodities. especially if your an owner that has an eye for young talent. sponsoring a young fighter would almost be like gambling. they would be long term investments where an older more hyped fighter would be a short term investment, high risk, high reward since they face tougher competition. i dont know all the ins and outs of clothing company cost to actually talk smartly about it tho, but im sure theres ppl on here that do know. im curious if the price difference could ever be enuff to make someone go with a cheaper less productive product. currently with supps its not, but if you figure a fighter buying a $300 supp(14 days) and $1200 gym fees(14 days) and a $125 shirt and $125 shorts every 14 days. thats $3500 a month, not every fighter can afford that, so there would have to be a compromise somewhere : ) either support a cheaper gym, a growing supp company, or a smaller clothing company. so basicly sales would trickle down in each area. so smaller companies would not necessarily have to spend a lot on sponsors to make sales. plus that 1st 500 week that a clothing owner got becos of a big fighter that he signed would be an awfully exciting achievement : ) or that extra supp sold or gym member picked up would make somebody very very happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 i'm not gonna sell my company, i'm not gonna quit playing regardless of any changes made. i'll just keep changing as the game does and finding ways to make it happen within the rules of those changes. i'm not even sure why i got involved in this since i did so good being quiet about the sparring changes. maybe that's why? i caught some flak for not speaking up and opposing the sparring changes when i really didn't oppose them. meh, do what u gotta do mike. i'll still be rollin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The problem with getting more hype for clothes from hyped companies is that people then only buy clothes from the hyped companies. They wouldn't put their prices up - people like to sell as many clothes as they can - if anything they'd put their prices down. why not make clothing companies hype be relative to the minimum price they can set to their merchandise? makes people think twice about getting the company too hyped if they can't put out merchandise that people are willing to shell out money for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 What some do not realize, it that there is really no tangible incentive to have a high hype number. And hence, no real incentive to sponsor fighters. A location on a list or on Highstreet means very little. Folks are going to buy the best supps for the best price they can afford, and buy clothes that they either like, or can afford. I will not spend several K on a fighter with 15k in the bank already just to get my hype up. That money is much more valuable to a n00b. Caps are caps. Regardless of the other reasons mentioned, they were put in place because of the disparity of supp companies. Not because of any complaints or problems with clothing. Yet we get sucked into the supp fixes every time. There have been multiple suggestions, some with wide spread support, of things to do with clothing to enhance it and spice it up. Variable quality and different materials, product arrangement tool, different items (caps/gloves/posters) renegotiate tool for sponsoring, mass messaging to sponsorees. And yet many of these suggestions made have been either dismissed or are far down on the "list." Fixing the Magic clothes was a big one, however, just when people have a real reason to buy clothes, you limit how much we can sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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