Hidden Traits

[Icon73]

I noticed my post was way to long and most people got completely caught up in the secondaries part of the idea. The few the did read about the traits gave positive feedback so I wanted to separate the idea to give it it's own space for discussion.

 

Traits would be additional hidden you pick up based on how you perform in fights with your fighter.

 

Based on how your guy performs (moves he performs, finishes he has) in fights he can develop traits.

 

Finish 5 fights be armbar? Receive the nasty Armbar trait. You now have a 5% higher chance of landing and arm bar if you attempt it.

 

Finish 5 fights with a 1 punch KO? Develop the feared KO artist trait. Fighters are 5% more likely to bait on feints. 5% more chance of flash KO

 

Wrestle out 5 decisions? Receive the Grinder trait. Stamina penalties cut down by 5% each round the fight goes on.

 

These traits will help mold your fighter and make his previous fights matter more in the grand scheme of his growth. All fighters say this. The only way to really learn to fight is to well... Fight. So I think we should be getting something from these fights.

 

I also think traits should be tiered. Kind of like ultimate team in sports games where they will have a bronze, silver, gold and platinum. Make it go like 5%, 7.5%, 10%, 15% and make it like 5, 10, 15, and 20 fights achieving this same goal.

 

Then as guys develop traits your top hidden trait will appear on your TOTT but none of the others. Leaving some mystery and spicing up TOTT.

 

Also in addition we should adjust some parts of TOTT.

 

It should not say Abu Dhabi champion. It should say TWGC champion if you actually have won it. 

 

Also the rankings on commentary are broken.

[Rambo]

I'm down for fighter trophies based off finishing moves. Land 5 armbars? Get a fighter trophy. Hit 5 head kicks? fighter trophy. 5 kimuras? Trophy!

Doesn't require re-hardwiring the engine.

[clydebankblitz]

The downside of you getting more chance of winning fights, test fighters would become "picking up traits fights". If there was a way to combat that it'd be cool but I don't think it exists currently.

[scottxbandz]

10 minutes ago, Icon73 said:

Then as guys develop traits your top hidden trait will appear on your TOTT but none of the others. Leaving some mystery and spicing up TOTT.

Also in addition we should adjust some parts of TOTT.

It should not say Abu Dhabi champion. It should say TWGC champion if you actually have won it.

i like the premise a bit, but this is the part of the idea that i am most here for..

the TOTT is quite stale rn imo

[10thPlanetKT]

2 minutes ago, clydebankblitz said:

The downside of you getting more chance of winning fights, test fighters would become "picking up traits fights". If there was a way to combat that it'd be cool but I don't think it exists currently.

Wow I never even thought of that lol. Spamming head kicks vs a can to get that trophy. it is still a good idea though. Anything that adds variety to the game. 

[Rambo]

Just now, 10thPlanetKT said:

Wow I never even thought of that lo. Spamming head kicks vs a can to get that trophy.

TROPHIES

and

TRAITS

btw two very different things.

 

I support fighter trophies.

I'm against traits. I think I've suggested something similar in the past too. It's not a bad idea for an MMA game, just not right for this one atm.

[ArtieBanks]

We already have traits... you pick them at the start of the game, it is just referred to as hiddens. KO power, Confidence, Chin, Heart etc are all considered traits. 

Now lets just dive into why it doesn't work - as CK said it is a good idea for a MMA game but not this one. 

Let's start with the positives

This rewards fighting early as you can negate a lot of the projects skill gap by a trait gap. I'd still probably take skills over traits in the early game (some trash fighters have made it to the big leagues looking undestructable before being wiped out by their shitty traits). 

It might make take some reliance off of hiddens as a whole. You might get away with a self confident guy being a submission expert because he could build the traits early and by the late game he can actually have a chance.

That is about it for the positives. 

Negatives time

This would involve probably months of work and a new game engine both of which Mike will not do. I left the game previously because of changes that were going to be made and came back 6 years later to them still not being done. The amount of work for the relative lack of anything really substantive isn't something he would do.

The traits are a bit wack. Submissions you are relying on a whole lot of RNJesus to not only roll a submission but to roll a particular one. You would need to rework the submission game and allow for submissions only to be attempted in certain positions. So for example - armbars only to be attempted from side mount or bottom guard. That again is going to take some re-wiring of the games mechanics. 

This game has a lot of 'mystery' behind it. We can work out certain things but for the most part and for me the best part about the game was that nothing is certain as you are up against another person and you are basically rolling the dice. We don't need any more mysteries or to waste time on a project that turns out to be utter shite and a waste of nine months training. 

The flash KO thing just sounds fucked. I don't want to get into how difficult that shit would be to code into a game engine which already incorporates power into it. You could code it in +5% but you have to have limits to the code in the engine meaning that if you already have 148 power then you can only be boosted to 150. It would probably end up just giving an error message and crashing the engine because it is trying to go above the prescribed number. You could raise the number but then you would have to go into re-working creating fighters etc and that just means making a new game at that point. 

 

The one thing that I think has been said about 100 times is that fighters should be rewarded for taking fights in the way of learning skills. It has been about before I ever joined the game. It is really the only solid idea for this game but I don't really know how Mike could go about reworking the system to add it in or how much time it would take to do it but it always seemed like a good idea. You could probably tether it to learning speed so it tapers off the older you get. 

 

[Rambo]

There should be incentive for fighting early... but if it ain't in the form of learning speed, idk what you'd do. Just HOW valuable is experience in grand scheme of things? Maybe comes into equation when going for finishes? idk

[clydebankblitz]

1 hour ago, Rambo said:

There should be incentive for fighting early... but if it ain't in the form of learning speed, idk what you'd do. Just HOW valuable is experience in grand scheme of things? Maybe comes into equation when going for finishes? idk

Maybe some sort of learnig speed temporary boost if you take fights?

[Rambo]

59 minutes ago, clydebankblitz said:

Maybe some sort of learnig speed temporary boost if you take fights?

Fight myself or my buddy 1x3 min round, min energy loss, every X amount of days, and keep getting that max training boost.

not realistic either to irl. fighting often doesn't equate to becoming a more technically skilled fighter. training often typically does lol.

[clydebankblitz]

7 hours ago, Rambo said:

Fight myself or my buddy 1x3 min round, min energy loss, every X amount of days, and keep getting that max training boost.

not realistic either to irl. fighting often doesn't equate to becoming a more technically skilled fighter. training often typically does lol.

Yeah but fighting makes you a better fighter due to the "experience" as you said. Since experience isn't a part of the game, it could be used as an incentive to make people fight rather than sit out and train.

Tbh another incentive I'd have is to add more variation to learning speed and to properly hide hiddens. Make it less easy to know your fighter, so it's more exciting down the line when it turns out he's a killer.

[Rambo]

6 minutes ago, clydebankblitz said:

Yeah but fighting makes you a better fighter due to the "experience" as you said. Since experience isn't a part of the game, it could be used as an incentive to make people fight rather than sit out and train.

Tbh another incentive I'd have is to add more variation to learning speed and to properly hide hiddens. Make it less easy to know your fighter, so it's more exciting down the line when it turns out he's a killer.

experience is a part of the game, I just question the significance of it's impact

[clydebankblitz]

2 minutes ago, Rambo said:

experience is a part of the game, I just question the significance of it's impact

Is it? Didn't know that. So the more fights you have, the better the fight or something? 

[MauriceSimmons]

8 hours ago, clydebankblitz said:

Maybe some sort of learnig speed temporary boost if you take fights?

I didn't read everything in this thread but I fw this idea

[ArtieBanks]

2 hours ago, Rambo said:

experience is a part of the game, I just question the significance of it's impact

 

I'd suspect that it is quite under powered. We don't really see it play a factor late game because both guys are almost maxed on it by then. 

In the early game you always take skills over experience. 

[Bynum]

Something like the type of submission one gets is mostly random, maybe can be influenced some by stick position but not under control.  I wouldn't want traits to come from that sort of thing.  Those one can influence a lot, like head kick KO's, would become abusable.

I'd be for some traits, though, different from hiddens, specific things one would pick when creating a fighter that a fighter would get a small bonus in.  It wouldn't be like hiddens; they'd be very specific and not a bonus to a hidden:  You'd know (opponents wouldn't) exactly what traits you had.  You might be limited to two, maybe gain one extra for every 5 fights you win.

So you could choose armbar, the fighter would be 10% more likely when making a sub attempt to try an armbar instead of another, and an armbar would have a 10% bonus to its chance of succeeding.  A specific move like that could get a bonus like that without a downside, because it wouldn't apply to all, or even most, sub attempts, even with the 10% higher probability that an armbar would be selected for the attempt.

Then something like "grinder" for someone who specializes in winning by decision:  That might be 10% more endurance recovery between rounds- if any exists; if none exists then it would be 5% endurance recovery when others recover zero.  But of course that would be very commonly useful, so there would also need to be penalties, as in the KO Power hidden would be treated as 5 points lower than it is, and there would be a -5% success chance to all submission attempts.

I don't think Mike is interested in making this big a sim change though, especially because balancing the traits to be close to equal value would be so hard...but it would be cool, as one could have specialization in ways we don't have now- and "signature moves" if one chose them.