Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 K-1 is not Dutch, ADCC is not Brazilian and the IJF is not French and Jepanese. The Netherlands was the first western country where kickboxing truly gained popularity, and asian fighters are usually not big enough to compete as heavyweights. It's not that hard to figure out where all the champions come from then. Brock Lesnar was 3-1 when he was considered the second best heavyweight in MMA. BJ Penn is 1-3 as a welterweight and everybody knows that he belongs in the top ten when competing in that division. It's obvious that Overeem improved a lot as a striker in the last two years and that the weight he put on helps him tremendously. Everybody with two braincells knows that he wouldn't lose in a standup fight to any of those opponents again, not as a heavyweight and probably not as a light heavyweight either. Overeem is a better standup fighter than Fedor and it's very possible that Fedor wouldn't get him down. The majority of fighters in K-1 are of Japanese or Dutch origin. It's biggest fanbase is located within those two countries. Brock Lesnar is ranked the second best HW because he beat some of the best HWs in the sport in a little over a year timespan. Overeem has made some huge gains as a standup fighter. I still find his chin suspect, both as a LHW and a HW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabscar Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 K-1 is not Dutch, ADCC is not Brazilian and the IJF is not French and Jepanese. The Netherlands was the first western country where kickboxing truly gained popularity, and asian fighters are usually not big enough to compete as heavyweights. It's not that hard to figure out where all the champions come from then. Brock Lesnar was 3-1 when he was considered the second best heavyweight in MMA. BJ Penn is 1-3 as a welterweight and everybody knows that he belongs in the top ten when competing in that division. It's obvious that Overeem improved a lot as a striker in the last two years and that the weight he put on helps him tremendously. Everybody with two braincells knows that he wouldn't lose in a standup fight to any of those opponents again, not as a heavyweight and probably not as a light heavyweight either. Overeem is a better standup fighter than Fedor and it's very possible that Fedor wouldn't get him down. Penn is only 1-3 as a UFC Welterweight, there's a difference. And what makes you think that Fedor, who has never had any trouble getting anyone to the ground in his career, is going to have trouble taking down Overeem, who has no wrestling chops and has never exhibited any takedown defense worth talking about ever? His nice guillotine aside, the horseman's only hope of winning is to keep his hands up and pick his shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Penn is only 1-3 as a UFC Welterweight, there's a difference. And what makes you think that Fedor, who has never had any trouble getting anyone to the ground in his career, is going to have trouble taking down Overeem, who has no wrestling chops and has never exhibited any takedown defense worth talking about ever? His nice guillotine aside, the horseman's only hope of winning is to keep his hands up and pick his shots. Your whole post is just laughable. Fedor has been taken down more by Ricardo Arona than Overeem has been taken down in his entire career. Saying that Overeem hasn't shown good takedown defense is beyond ridiculous. Fedor landed on his back trying to take down Hong Man Choi and got reversed by Mark Hunt. Try to imagine Overeem trying an Americana instead of Hunt. That fight would've been over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexinaco Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Your whole post is just laughable. Fedor has been taken down more by Ricardo Arona than Overeem has been taken down in his entire career. Saying that Overeem hasn't shown good takedown defense is beyond ridiculous. Fedor landed on his back trying to take down Hong Man Choi and got reversed by Mark Hunt. Try to imagine Overeem trying an Americana instead of Hunt. That fight would've been over. Suppositions are so beautiful yet so useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Suppositions are so beautiful yet so useless. Nice one, you just found out that they haven't fought yet or are you claiming that you can give a prediction without making assumptions? Would you give the same idiotic comment if I said that Fedor would beat a 12 year old girl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexinaco Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Nice one, you just found out that they haven't fought yet or are you claiming that you can give a prediction without making assumptions? Would you give the same idiotic comment if I said that Fedor would beat a 12 year old girl? Well predictions are as useless as suppositions unless they become true, but we do them because is funny and because we think we're the wisest bastards on Earth. But I suppose you're right in a way, but the last part of your comment "that fight would've been over" is what made your comment look stupid to me and is the reason I said that; in Mexico we have a saying "el hubiera no existe" that is literally translated as "the would've does not exists" and is used when someone is bitching about something he didn't do and he should've done, or something he wanted to happen but didn't happened; and is used because is useless and pathetic to think (and cry) over something that could have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Not sure what the argument is about, Overeem is a decent fighter, he has already proven that he is a decent fighter in MMA and has already beaten: Vitor Belfort (twice) Igor Vovchanchyn Roman Zentsov (know this guy from living in Russia, decent fighter) Paul Buentello Mark Hunt I noticed that he generally looses against anyone really good though and his chin is suspect. But i think he has improved a lot over the last 3 years, he has got a lot stronger, he has a 8 fight undefeated streak in MMA since mid 2007 and in K-1 lost to just Hari (which he also beat) and Remy Bonjasky (it was a very unfair fight, he was winning all the rounds, just got a knock down in the last and lost on points). He has fantastic knees, his takedowns are decent (throws especially) he can wrestle and has more wins by submission, which shows he is versed. I would say that he could be the next big thing in HW MMA because he has the experience + he is just 29, if he continues to improve as he has over the last 3 years, he could be a HUGE draw. Can he beat Fedor? Do not think so, simply because: #1 Fedor is the best fighter in the world (say what you want, facts speak for themselves) #2 He lacks maturity against someone like Fedor #3 His stand up is good, but mainly in the clinch, i do not think Fedor will be controlled in the clinch #4 On the ground he does not have much chance He could still win though, he has a chance (at least more than Rogers had) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Not sure what the argument is about, Overeem is a decent fighter, he has already proven that he is a decent fighter in MMA and has already beaten: Vitor Belfort (twice) Igor Vovchanchyn Roman Zentsov (know this guy from living in Russia, decent fighter) Paul Buentello Mark Hunt I noticed that he generally looses against anyone really good though and his chin is suspect. But i think he has improved a lot over the last 3 years, he has got a lot stronger, he has a 8 fight undefeated streak in MMA since mid 2007 and in K-1 lost to just Hari (which he also beat) and Remy Bonjasky (it was a very unfair fight, he was winning all the rounds, just got a knock down in the last and lost on points). He has fantastic knees, his takedowns are decent (throws especially) he can wrestle and has more wins by submission, which shows he is versed. I would say that he could be the next big thing in HW MMA because he has the experience + he is just 29, if he continues to improve as he has over the last 3 years, he could be a HUGE draw. Can he beat Fedor? Do not think so, simply because: #1 Fedor is the best fighter in the world (say what you want, facts speak for themselves) #2 He lacks maturity against someone like Fedor #3 His stand up is good, but mainly in the clinch, i do not think Fedor will be controlled in the clinch #4 On the ground he does not have much chance He could still win though, he has a chance (at least more than Rogers had) Best stated case I've heard for Overeem yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 i just like russians period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffWanderer Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I have always been of the opinion that Overeem would be a far more scary prospect if he was pushed more at a better training camp. i don't rate Golden glory anymore (and it still sounds dirty to me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 #4 On the ground he does not have much chance As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I wouldn't be so sure..he is stronger and about as big as Rogers, which avoided being controlled for long and powered himself out of Fedors sub attempts - who knows what Overeem might do if he gets him pinned against the cage like in the Rogers-fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabscar Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Your whole post is just laughable. Fedor has been taken down more by Ricardo Arona than Overeem has been taken down in his entire career. Saying that Overeem hasn't shown good takedown defense is beyond ridiculous. Fedor landed on his back trying to take down Hong Man Choi and got reversed by Mark Hunt. Try to imagine Overeem trying an Americana instead of Hunt. That fight would've been over. Your ability to dodge the point with every post is Machida-like in its glory. Fedor did fall to his back against a freakishly large man. He submitted him. Hunt did sweep him. He submitted him too. No one said Fedor's takedown defence was good, kiddo. But when does Overeem shoot when he can strike? There's also the way you seem to believe that Overeem would have keylocked Fedor. The same Fedor who sat in Nogueira, the best heavyweight submissionist of all time's guard for the better part of 40 minutes, all told, without letting him do anything. That's even supposing Overeem could get him there, which isn't a given. Perhaps I was a little harsh on Overeem's TD defense, but if he doesn't cach you in the Overtine on the way down, he's no threat on his back. Fedor is. And by the way, Overeem has been KO'd more than Arona took down Fedor. And Arona's Maia-level strikes made Overeem tap out. Don't think I missed how you glossed over me calling you out on the Penn thing either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 The reason why I'm able to dodge your point so easily is because there is none. You just babble nonsense. Your ability to dodge the point with every post is Machida-like in its glory. Fedor did fall to his back against a freakishly large man. He submitted him. Hunt did sweep him. He submitted him too. No one said Fedor's takedown defence was good, kiddo. But when does Overeem shoot when he can strike? We were talking about wrestling credentials, not submission credentials. Fedor tried to take Hong Man Choi down, not the other way around. Why would anybody think that Fedor is able to submit Overeem anyway? I also don't understand how people can even dispute that Overeem is a better standup fighter. He's one of the 4 best K-1 fighters there is. How do the flaws and defeats he had in his past take anything away from that? He wasn't even close to being able to achieve that 2 years ago. Overeem is a complete different fighter now. He used to be an overly agressive light heavyweight, now he's a massive heavyweight with much improved standup skills and a more careful approach. He's bigger, stronger, a better striker, better in the clinch, he is almost impossible to take down, almost impossible to submit. On the other side there is the fact that Overeem quits easily when hurt. In Fedor's favor is that he has a lot of heart, one punch KO power, very fast, but he is predictable on the feet and can't fight going backwards. That's going to make it hard against Overeem if Fedor doesn't want to move into the clinch. It's not that I don't like Fedor, I like him a lot more as a fighter than Overeem, but styles make fights and I don't think he can win. I would love to see the fight though and be proven wrong. About Penn, I said that Penn is 1-3 as a welterweight and you answer that by saying he's 1-3 as a UFC welterweight. How do I have to respond to that? Yeah... and? Does that make my statement false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 i wouldnt be surprised if fedor managed to submit overeem. i doubt that is how the fight would end, but it wouldnt surprise me. k-1 striking is different than striking in mma. as mentioned earlier, overeem's only defense is to cover up. that's a bit easier to do in k-1 with big gloves. his whole game is to move forward and basically overwhelm guys with his size and power. he has no real defense on the feet. he doesnt move his head, he doesnt really move a lot or even try to slip punches...he just moves forward. fedor has far better ability to avoid punches and is much faster. you say fedor cant fight moving back...can overeem? overeem is only comfortable when he's in control and going forward. the game changes if you can push him back. also wouldnt say fedor was predictable. you have this idea that he can only throw a right hand, so maybe if that were the case he would be predictable...but that isnt the case. also wouldnt say overeem is better in the clinch. it's two different type of clinches. just because overeem is bigger and stronger doesn't mean he can win there. that's the mistake rich franklin made against anderson silva. he thought he would dominate the clinch because he was stronger...clearly not the case. it isnt that simple. so i dont know if it'd be a case where fedor doesnt want to be in the clinch. he mgiht actually clinch on purpose to try and wear overeem down, who has a questionable gas tank. we can just look at overeem's k-1 achievements and say he'd dominate mma because of it. the round structure in k-1 is a big advantage for someone like overeem. fighting 3 or 4 rounds where each round is 3 minutes is something he can do. can he fight 3 or 5 rounds that are 5 minutes? not so sure. overeem still has to answer some questions. the last really legit heavyweight he fought in mma was sergei kharitonov, who made overeem run away from him. i guess you could call mark hunt semi-legit...but it looks like he stopped caring about fighting awhile ago. i do believe he has maybe the best shot...but we need to see a bit more first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffWanderer Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Overeem has to decide to make MMA his primary goal if he wants to be taken completely seriously. I'm sure everyone will agree with that to some degree. His striking defense will have to change for MMA but I can see him making that transition if he decided he wanted too, quite easily. He has the power to test Fedor but he would no way be the favourite in a contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Totally agreed. K-1 striking is completely different. Semmy Schilt is a perfect example of that. In fact, I won't even concede Overeem is one of the best fighters in K-1, to be honest. He has a 5-4 record with 3 losses coming via KO, 2 of which were in the last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Totally agreed. K-1 striking is completely different. Semmy Schilt is a perfect example of that. In fact, I won't even concede Overeem is one of the best fighters in K-1, to be honest. He has a 5-4 record with 3 losses coming via KO, 2 of which were in the last year. his record is not 5-4, that's the "wikipedia" record. anyway the point is that there's nobody better for Fedor outside the ufc. Barnett has no more credibility, he failed 3 drug test in his last 6 or 7 fights in the US. Kharitonov was a very good fighter, now he is becoming fat and slow, take a look at his match with Monson. Werdum is a good fighter, but what's his best victory?Gonzaga? Roy Nelson looks better than him against Arlovski, and he gets destroyed by Dos Santos just 1 year ago. who else? Monson? Rizzo? or another exhibition against Aoki? Overeem has the best chance against Fedor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 his record is not 5-4, that's the "wikipedia" record. Can you give me a link to his "real" record? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Is this it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 i don't know why you guys think overweem will destroy fedor in the clinch and won't get subbed? fedor=judo/sambo master.just because he doesn't throw punches doesn't mean he sucks in the clinch. also fedor is know for subs and overweem isn't a bjj black-belt (which fedor owned big nog) so he doesn't want to get to the ground or he will get subbed. and one punch ko power enough said. also i'm not a fedor nutsucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 i don't know why you guys think overweem will destroy fedor in the clinch and won't get subbed? fedor=judo/sambo master.just because he doesn't throw punches doesn't mean he sucks in the clinch. also fedor is know for subs and overweem isn't a bjj black-belt (which fedor owned big nog) so he doesn't want to get to the ground or he will get subbed. and one punch ko power enough said. also i'm not a fedor nutsucker Yes you are are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Yes you are are fedor's not in my top 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Kicker Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 the legends are true! http://cdn.cagepotato.com/www/sites/default/files/fedor_stary_oskol_tshirt.jpg http://www.cagetalk.com.au/2010/01/25/the-...tually-receive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveme8 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 fedor's not in my top 5 Top 5 what exactly? Bakers? Renaissance artists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Top 5 what exactly? Bakers? Renaissance artists? fighters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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