StrikeForce Vs. UFC

[SonnyMuchacho]

Good card - entertaining at least. Quality fighters all across the board - not so much.

 

But anyone saying Diaz fought a B grad fighter is smoking some of Nick's goods. Zaromskis is the Dream champ (tourney style) so you can't say he's a non-deserving competitor.

 

War Diaz. LOVED how he said Nate's decision in UFC was bullshit lol

[Rambo]

Personally, I think SF has the better set of HW's. Top end HW's at least.

I rate Overeem and Rogers as highly as any UFC HW who doesn't have a sword on his chest. And then you have Fedor...

 

I'd take all three over the UFC HW's, excluding Brock, of course.

Mir might do ok, but I see him getting tagged standing and struggling to impose his ground game on Rogers and Overeem.

 

I believe Shane Carwin is the most powerful HW in UFC, and that Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir will both be KO victims on his record. Carwin's a beast, I'd love to see him and Brett Rogers fight - I think he'd KO him. Fedor however, is the best HW in the world. Everybody with any common sense knows this. Though, I would want to see Fedor vs Lesnar, Fedor vs Mir (just to watch Mir get his face pounded ), Fedor vs Carwin, Fedor vs Couture (I don't think this will never happen unless randy is still fightin in his late 50's lol)

 

Strikeforce has good commentating too, I know everybody loves Joe Rogan and is accustomed to Goldberg's voice, but the commentary of a Strikeforce event is very tolerable and "listenable". And really, what was wrong with the event?

 

The main event was great. Ended with a KO who doesn't want to watch that?

 

The Cyborg fight was a very good fight, the girl she was fighting was technically sound and was firing punches back. It wasn't like two girls fighting or a girl fight, it was like watching two fighters go at it.

 

Sure, the Walker vs Nagy fight was a scrub fight, but I was entertained watchin the 47 year old fight, thought he was gonna get caught in a couple subs though. I'm glad I got to see Walker's 1st MMA fight rather then hear about it, or read about it.

 

Lawler vs Manhoef was great. Who doesn't love a finish like that? If you don't appreciate a KO like that you shouldn't be watchin MMA.

 

I wish they woulda let Lashley beat up Wes Sims more than they did. Lashley will prolly get a rude awakening if he ever fights somebody with any type of good standup and KO power. But at least it didn't last too long.

 

Let me compare UFC events. Did yall really like UFC Fight Night 20 better? I didn't. Maybe you liked UFC 77 Hostile Territory? Only real good fight was Silva running over Franklin's face. Maybe UFC Silva vs Cote??? Yeah, the depth in the undercard of the UFC was and usually is a lot better but Strikeforce is pretty new, and UFC has held over 100 events. For an in game comparison it's like saying Syn is the only org with good events that you like watching and the other orgs like Konflikt, Tapout FC, Kings of Rio, etc. they all suck and don't have good enough commentary for you.

[Mexinaco]

What is the fucking point of this post?

Right now Strikeforce can't compete with the UFC, but they are doing it very well for a company that has been promoting MMA events for less than 4 FUCKING YEARS and they have had to take the fucking counter programming of the UFC (something that Dana does not like when it happens to him http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/1/21/126...oved-to-may-8th). In a few years Strikeforce could compete with the UFC right now they can't, but they are doing their best so chill up UFC lovers.

 

[Guest]

I decided to look at three different rankings of heavyweights, just 'cause, and figured I'd share:

 

Fight Matrix uses a computerized points system that I think weights recent results more heavily than distant results. I believe they also award more points for title fights, which they perceive to be inherently more revealing of a fighter's skill, which I think is horse-doo-doo, but I'll let you decide that for yourself:

 

Fedor - 808 pts

Lesnar - 626

Big Nog - 425

Mir - 382

Junior dos Santos - 350

Josh Barnett - 273

Brett Rogers - 252

Cain Velasquez - 238

Werdum - 228

Carwin - 223

Arlovski - 214

Overeem - 198

 

 

 

MMA Elo scores, which do not really weight recent results more than older results, and which reward fighters who have fought a lot. However, they do provide a "strength of schedule" score, which is interesting too. The first number is the fighter's current individual score, the second number is his "strength of schedule" score, which represents the aggregate of the scores of the fighters he's faced (not just the of the fighters he's defeated):

 

Fedor - 2300 / 1754

Big Nog - 2102 / 1784

Aleks Emelianenko - 1969 / 1735

Werdum - 1967 / 1787

Overeem - 1962 / 1689

Arlovski - 1953 / 1799

Junior dos Santos - 1942 / 1677

Randy Couture - 1942 / 1816 - I thought about removing Randy, since he's so often a LHW, but again, I'll let you decide that for yourself

Antonio Silva - 1934 / 1716

Jeff Monson - 1926 / 1641

Velasquez - 1925 / 1763

Carwin - 1916 / 1613

Cro Cop - 1915 / 1784

Mir - 1894 - 1726

Brett Rogers - 1894 / 1660

 

Brock Lesnar is way down at #28 - 1797 / 1820 - owing mostly to the fact that he's had only 5 fights. Another interesting statistic might be "Average Points Earned Per Win" or something. The site doesn't provide that, and there's no way in Hell I'm calculating that myself, but in looking at Lesnar's record, we can see that he earned 86, 90, and 76 points for his wins over Heath Herring, Randy Couture, and Frank Mir, which is a crap-load (and he lost only 3 points for his loss to Mir, which is basically nothing).

 

 

Finally, the USA Today / SB Nation composite rankings aggregate the rankings of several different web sites, all of which presumably use different methodologies, up to (and perhaps including) using The Force:

 

1. Fedor

2. Lesnar

3. Mir

4. Big Nog

5. dos Santos

6. Velasquez

7. Brett Rogers

8. Carwin

9. Josh Barnett

t-10. Overeem

t-10. Werdum

12. Arlovski

13. Gonzaga

 

Randy Couture is #17 and King Mo is #25, probably because some sites rank them as Heavyweights, and some rank them as Light-Heavyweights, but not as both.

[Guest]

UFC is too much for any mma org to go up against right now,they have the best fighters in the world and their still adding wouldn't be surprised if some Strikeforce champs came over guys like Mousasi and Fedor then who does SF really have.

[Guest]

I thought it was a great card hell it was better than every ufc this year . the only ufc ppv better than it in a while was penn sanchez . and prior to that you have to look at machida shogun .

 

look at some of the ufc ppv they have been weak in comparison the last one was very poor , the next one is even worse . penn- sanchez was brilliant .

 

ufc 106 tito forrest was very poor too

ufc 105 couture vera in Manchester was a terrible card

ufc 104 was amazing

ufc 103 belfort vs franklin with no co main event .

 

the ufc have had 2 good ppv in their last 7 which were stacked with top talent . the other 5 where the same or worse quality as a strikeforce event in most cases .

 

the next 2 events by the ufc are weak too ufc 109 is really bad , ufc 110 is ok , but then ufc 111 is completely stacked 3 main event standard fights

then 112 is looking incredible too bj edar , a.silva vs belfort thats insane .

 

 

What is up with having terrible cards then incredible cards

 

 

[Guest]

regardless of who is better than who, i think we should be thankful to have more fights to watch.

[Guest]

I enjoyed the event from start to finish, don't know anyone can say this sucked compared to some of the UFC recent events

[Guest]

I'm not a UFC lover at all. I liked PRIDE much better for the time it was around. This card had nothing to do with the fact that Strikeforce is around for less than 5 years. They just made some terrible choices on the matchups when they could've offered a lot better. I liked the previous two Strikeforce events a lot and enjoyed it just as much as any UFC event. Yesterday they just failed terribly.

 

UFC 108 wasn't great, 105 pretty bad, 102 was bad aside from the main event and in my opinion UFC 100 was overhyped crap. I don't think I ever claimed that UFC events are always great, but I can't think of any event that was worse than this.

[TK]

I believe Shane Carwin is the most powerful HW in UFC, and that Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir will both be KO victims on his record. Carwin's a beast, I'd love to see him and Brett Rogers fight - I think he'd KO him. Fedor however, is the best HW in the world. Everybody with any common sense knows this. Though, I would want to see Fedor vs Lesnar, Fedor vs Mir (just to watch Mir get his face pounded ), Fedor vs Carwin, Fedor vs Couture (I don't think this will never happen unless randy is still fightin in his late 50's lol)

 

 

I agree with everything else you said, but not the bit I've quoted.

 

Imho, I think Carwin is too slow. He might be the biggest hitter, but he doesn't have the hand speed.

 

Overeem, Rogers, and maybe even Mir, would all beat him to the punch enough to win, while Brock would just maul him with vastly superior

speed and agility. Yeah, Carwin will always have a punchers chance, but that's all I give him.

 

Very good fighter, yes, but not great. I actually think he's a UFC hype puppet...6'5"? Yeah, right...

[Guest]

I agree with everything else you said, but not the bit I've quoted.

 

Imho, I think Carwin is too slow. He might be the biggest hitter, but he doesn't have the hand speed.

 

Overeem, Rogers, and maybe even Mir, would all beat him to the punch enough to win, while Brock would just maul him with vastly superior

speed and agility. Yeah, Carwin will always have a punchers chance, but that's all I give him.

 

Very good fighter, yes, but not great. I actually think he's a UFC hype puppet...6'5"? Yeah, right...

 

 

people forget valaschez (sorry about the spelling) he'll be a great fighter I;m very confident he'll beat big nog who is coming to the end of his career

[Guest]

I think running standard cards and then stacked cards is part of the business plan. There is a certain level of fan that is going to buy the PPV no matter what, so every time they have an event then they are going to drag in some cash. But the whole time they are "saving up" for a big card that will bring in all the guys on the fence for massive profits.

 

As for the Strikeforce vs UFC debate, why does everyone want Strikeforce to succeed? Wouldn't it be better if all the good fighters were just in one org? Then all these debates could be settled in the cage.

[Guest]

Strikeforce to UFC is the CFL to the NFL

 

The CFL will never be as big as the NFL but it allows athletes to compete, get paid and entertains people. Will Strikeforce be as big as the UFC? No but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its place.

[Mentor]

i think it is a little too early to make a direct comparison with the UFC, they need more time to build up their own talent and are kind of forced to take on anyone with name value currently. UFC was not made over night, if Strikeforce can keep this going, i think 2-3 years from now this could be closer (i still think the UFC will probably be ahead though)

[Guest]

I think running standard cards and then stacked cards is part of the business plan. There is a certain level of fan that is going to buy the PPV no matter what, so every time they have an event then they are going to drag in some cash. But the whole time they are "saving up" for a big card that will bring in all the guys on the fence for massive profits.

 

As for the Strikeforce vs UFC debate, why does everyone want Strikeforce to succeed? Wouldn't it be better if all the good fighters were just in one org? Then all these debates could be settled in the cage.

If you want the fighters to make more then there has to be competition to the ufc. If there's another org out there that can offer someone like Hendo more money, then the UFC will have to give him even more money in order to keep him.

[Rambo]

If you want the fighters to make more then there has to be competition to the ufc. If there's another org out there that can offer someone like Hendo more money, then the UFC will have to give him even more money in order to keep him.

 

Strikeforce needs to go sign guys like Hector Lombard, Stanislav Nedkov, Amar Suloev (if they can convince him to fight again), hell mix it up with Travis Wiuff, Jeff Monson, Pedro Rizzo, the male "Cyborg" Santos, whoever they can get that could potentially draw fans or put on an exciting fight (exciting fights are more important)

[Guest]

I think running standard cards and then stacked cards is part of the business plan. There is a certain level of fan that is going to buy the PPV no matter what, so every time they have an event then they are going to drag in some cash. But the whole time they are "saving up" for a big card that will bring in all the guys on the fence for massive profits.

 

As for the Strikeforce vs UFC debate, why does everyone want Strikeforce to succeed? Wouldn't it be better if all the good fighters were just in one org? Then all these debates could be settled in the cage.

 

A lot of these fighters have a great deal of fame in Japan/Europe. There's is no guarantee that they would sign with the UFC if Strikeforce weren't around. For some, they may have a problem with Dana White who comes across like a complete cock chugger (although it is funny sometimes) who bashes a lot of people. Strikeforce/Coker act professionally at all times and provide a way for these guys to break into North America and get their faces on television.

[Guest]

Strikeforce is pretty much the UFC minor leagues. It's where the young guys get started on the path to the UFC. And where the dropouts go to stay competitive. Fedor is the only fighter in Strikeforce that'd be competitive in the UFC. Until he decides he's man enough to fight the best in the world, who are in the UFC, I won't even give him the benefit of being one of the greatest.

[taddreese]

Strikeforce is pretty much the UFC minor leagues. It's where the young guys get started on the path to the UFC. And where the dropouts go to stay competitive. Fedor is the only fighter in Strikeforce that'd be competitive in the UFC. Until he decides he's man enough to fight the best in the world, who are in the UFC, I won't even give him the benefit of being one of the greatest.

 

Really, until he decides hes "man enough". Fedor has fought the best of the best, before they were in the UFC and after. Have you not watched him fight? Whether you give him the benefit or not, he IS the greatest. Just because he doesn't want to be stuck in the UFC, and wants to be able to do other things, doesn't mean he doesn't, and hasn't already, fought the best.

 

But on the main subject - I like Strikeforce, give them a few years and they'll grow into themselves. Every ORG needs time to mature and really bring they're A game, but so far so good for Strikeforce, if they keep it up they could very well become the top. I mean, Pride was reigning and fell suddenly - the same could happen to the UFC.

[Guest]

Pride was reigning and fell suddenly - the same could happen to the UFC.

 

The UFC will be around for a long long time. They pretty much are MMA, certainly for modern converts.

[Rambo]

The UFC will be around for a long long time. They pretty much are MMA, certainly for modern converts.

 

As soon as PRIDE's "connections" were aired and made public, they pulled the plug. Which was the smart thing to do.

[Rambo]

Strikeforce is pretty much the UFC minor leagues. It's where the young guys get started on the path to the UFC. And where the dropouts go to stay competitive. Fedor is the only fighter in Strikeforce that'd be competitive in the UFC. Until he decides he's man enough to fight the best in the world, who are in the UFC, I won't even give him the benefit of being one of the greatest.

 

This was one of the dumbest things I've read in awhile.

[PBR]

entertaining fights is what its all about as stated here before -- i like watching two guys i never even heard of as long as its entertaining -- actually some of the better and entertaining fights come from the lower rankings - now would i pay to watch strikeforce? probably not since i dont even pay to watch ufc -- lol -- but i do like what the offer and it was a decent card they put on and i hope they continue to put on shows

[Guest]

This was one of the dumbest things I've read in awhile.

 

You're an idiot if you think Strikeforce is anything more than the minor leagues. How many UFC dropouts are top contenders there...? After you realize that there are many UFC hasbeens that are top class in Strikeforce, and you can manage to quit being a dumbshit, you have to admit that Strikeforce is nothing more than AAA to the UFC's MLB. Idiot.

[Rambo]

You're an idiot if you think Strikeforce is anything more than the minor leagues. How many UFC dropouts are top contenders there...? After you realize that there are many UFC hasbeens that are top class in Strikeforce, and you can manage to quit being a dumbshit, you have to admit that Strikeforce is nothing more than AAA to the UFC's MLB. Idiot.

 

Haha you're just as retarded as I thought you were.

 

 

 

Fedor, Gregard Mousasi, Nick Diaz, Melvin Manhoef, Brett Rogers, Alistar Overeem, El Nino Gilbert Melendez, Fabricio Werdum, Antonio Silva, Mighty Mo, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler, Matt Lindland, Mayham Miller, Marius Z, Mitsuhiro Ishida (pride vet holds a win over El Nino)

 

Those god damn, no good, yeller, fuckin UFC drop outs. Buncha scrubs I tell you what.