Re-doing fight scoring - Official Discussion

[MMATycoon]

At the moment the fight scoring is probably too heavily focussed on damage and we have general consensus that the ground game needs to be scored better, so rather than try and patch bits and pieces of it, I want to redo the whole thing. So, I'll note down a basic scoring system and you guys can discuss / improve.

 

Note: if the attempt is a success, my scoring doesn't add the two brackets together - If it's a failed attempt you score the first bracket, if it's a successful attempt, you get the second bracket.

 

Standing

Punch Head: Attempt (+1 base and +0.1 to +1 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3 and +0.1 to +3 depending on damage done)

Punch Body: Attempt (+0.9 base and +0.1 to +0.9 depending on damage slider), Successful (+2.7 and +0.1 to +2.7 depending on damage done)

Kick Leg: Attempt (+0.7 base and +0.1 to +0.7 depending on damage slider), Successful (+2.1 and +0.1 to +2.1 depending on damage done)

Kick Body: Attempt (+0.9 base and +0.1 to +0.9 depending on damage slider), Successful (+2.7 and +0.1 to +2.7 depending on damage done)

Kick Head: Attempt (+1.3 base and +0.1 to +1.3 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3.9 and +0.1 to +3.9 depending on damage done)

Clinch: Attempt (+0 - possibly some points for opponent), Successful (+4)

Takedown: Attempt (+0 - possibly some points for opponent), Successful (+10 and +0.1 to +10 depending on damage done or end position)

Punch Combo: 2+2, 6+6.

 

Clinchwork

Punch Head: Attempt (+1 base and +0.1 to +1 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3 and +0.1 to +3 depending on damage done)

Punch Body: Attempt (+0.5 base and +0.1 to +0.5 depending on damage slider), Successful (+1.5 and +0.1 to +1.5 depending on damage done)

Elbow: Attempt (+1 base and +0.1 to +1 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3 and +0.1 to +3 depending on damage done)

Knee Head: Attempt (+1.3 base and +0.1 to +1.3 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3.9 and +0.1 to +3.9 depending on damage done)

Knee Body: Attempt (+1 base and +0.1 to +1 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3 and +0.1 to +3 depending on damage done)

Stall / Control: Successful (+1)

Break Clinch: Successful (+2)

Takedown: Attempt (+1 to opponent), Successful (+10)

Pull Guard: Attempt (+1 to opponent), Successful (+5)

 

Knockdowns: +15 + 1-15.

 

Groundwork

More complex because we have 10 positions but the actions are;

GNP: Attempt (+1 base and +0.1 to +1 depending on damage slider), Successful (+3 and +0.1 to +3 depending on damage done)

Sub Attempt: Attempt (+1 to +10 depending on how close it is)

Stall / Control: Attempt (+0), Successful (+0.25)

Advance Position: Attempt (+0.6), Successful (depends where from / to) - possibly more depending on what type of advance position but this would be trickier to program.

Stand Up: Attempt (+0), Successful (+varies depending on what position you move from / to)

Be in X position

Back +1 per move

Mount +1 per move

Side +0.5 per move

Guard Top +0.2 per move

 

 

So that's a basic run through. What do we reckon? Maybe more bonus for scoring heavier shots? Compared to how it is now, this is quite a swing away from damage based scoring so perhaps e.g. +3 plus +0.1 to +0.9 is a better ratio, for damage based scoring (3 to 1 instead of 1 to 1).

 

Let me know what you think and whether anything's missed out.

 

Edit - we can also give certain judges a preference for clinch / ground / standup scoring and give them a little bio if you like, so you know what sort of scoring they are likely to give out and so that we have a bit of judge variation.

[markyosullivan]

Just wondering, if you land a heavy strike but just skim the opponents body/ head, do you get more points than landing an accurate clean strike to the head / body?

 

I can see a major problem with the submission attempts. In the game atm it is so easy just to spam submissions like crazy and you're giving between +1 - +10 depending on how close the submission attempt is, this gives a major advantage to submission spammers which isn't realistic at all.

 

If you try multiple submissions in one round it'll really take it out of you, either the energy system needs to be change or less points should be given for spamming submissions.

 

I'd also look into having a time variable that gives you points the longer you are in a more dominant position on the ground. Like it or not, if a wrestler gets you down in the ground and keeps you there, he'll get more points than you because he's controlling the fight.

[poraan]

Just wondering, does missing counter give any points?

[Guest]

love the bio on the judges but is there an option that will be coming to say in advance of the fight that who the judges will be?

[Guest]

Refs and judges should have their "skill points" too. I think judges have them, I recall Mike saying that a few times - but what about judges? Would be pretty cool to see guys like Leon Roberts or Herb Dean, who misses their call rarely and also dumb fucks like Maz, who wouldn't give many fucks about it. That could lead to early/late stoppages...or not stopping the fight at all, if ref thinks you can fight back or something.

[EzekelRAGE]

Did some bios. Ran out of backstory for the last ones lol. The judges for each event should be posted on the orgs event page before the fight. Doing things with judges could make managers rage about decs more though.

 

Boxing Judge - A former golden gloves champion in his youth. He decided to hang up his gloves after his last fight. He now judges MMA and Boxing matches. Favors punches and dirty boxing.

BJJ Judge - This 10th degree black belt is a 2 time grappling champion. Favors sub attempts, ground transitions, and pulling guard.

Wrestling Judge - A collegiate wrestler, he had an average career in MMA. He has now taken his expertise to judging fights. Favors takedowns and gnp

Muay Thai Judge - Learning to defend himself on the mean streets of Brazil, he studied Muay Thai at an early age. Now when he isnt teaching lessing in the fighting style, he is judging MMAContests. Favors kicks and the clinch.

Striking Judge - This former KT star loves the art of striking. Favors all strikes.

 

Clinching Judge - Blah Blah. Favors all clinching aspects.

 

Ground Judge - Blah Favors all ground aspects.

MMA Judge - This judge loves the art of the fight and finds each aspect equally interesting. This would be the fair judge and should be in a greater ratio than the other judges.

[markyosullivan]

It'd be pretty pissed off if my Island fighter lost a fight by decision because none of the judges for his fight preferred the stand up side to MMA.

[aylib]

Interesting idea on the judges and their preferences; throw in Cecil Peoples as the wildcard.

[minark]

It'd be pretty pissed off if my Island fighter lost a fight by decision because none of the judges for his fight preferred the stand up side to MMA.

I would say have a large group of regular judges who judge things the right way and randomly throw maybe one of these judges in or if you're extremely unlucky you may get two and be at a slight disadvantage. If you dominate striking and he never makes it to the ground, I'm sure they'd still judge it for your stand up fighter.

[Guest]

interesting .....

[Wolf]

The judges thing is a hit and miss and thats because (im not sure) the judges are random so you might have a ground fighter vs a stand up guy and the judges are a nuay thai boxer and clinch judges so the ground fighter should win due to winning on the ground but the little that the stand up guy did was scored more due to bias judges. Thats just my take on it.

 

Will you know what judges are judging your fight before you fight so you can set up a suitable game plan? Or maybe find out on.the day of the fight?

[Comte]

Just wondering, if you land a heavy strike but just skim the opponents body/ head, do you get more points than landing an accurate clean strike to the head / body?

 

I can see a major problem with the submission attempts. In the game atm it is so easy just to spam submissions like crazy and you're giving between +1 - +10 depending on how close the submission attempt is, this gives a major advantage to submission spammers which isn't realistic at all.

 

If you try multiple submissions in one round it'll really take it out of you, either the energy system needs to be change or less points should be given for spamming submissions.

 

I'd also look into having a time variable that gives you points the longer you are in a more dominant position on the ground. Like it or not, if a wrestler gets you down in the ground and keeps you there, he'll get more points than you because he's controlling the fight.

A submission which is close can equate to something along 1 minute of the match depending how long the preperation is.

[Guest]

Just wondering, if you land a heavy strike but just skim the opponents body/ head, do you get more points than landing an accurate clean strike to the head / body?

 

I can see a major problem with the submission attempts. In the game atm it is so easy just to spam submissions like crazy and you're giving between +1 - +10 depending on how close the submission attempt is, this gives a major advantage to submission spammers which isn't realistic at all.

 

If you try multiple submissions in one round it'll really take it out of you, either the energy system needs to be change or less points should be given for spamming submissions.

 

I'd also look into having a time variable that gives you points the longer you are in a more dominant position on the ground. Like it or not, if a wrestler gets you down in the ground and keeps you there, he'll get more points than you because he's controlling the fight.

 

I agree that spamming subs is going to be a problem if you attempt 10 subs in a round you get 10 points. Now if any of those subs are close then you get even more points. This I think would turn the standup fighters into useless sparbots since takedown def is almost worthless at the moment. I understand that under the new scoring you MIGHT get points for preventing a takedown, I think you should. A real fight is scored on the number of takedowns, the punches landed (and how significant they are), aggression and control. Preventing a takedown is controlling the fight as is getting a takedown, but at the moment it is too easy to counter clinch or counter takedown and that is a lot of points there. Add sub attempts and the points just for an attempt into the equation and everyone will be building red belts with high wrestling. There is also the fact that a sub attempt by a fighter on the bottom in the guard can be defended by the fighter on top in the guard position and transitioned to, side control for example. So I see transitions get points but I do not see points awarded for sweeps, which in my opinion should be high value points as well.

[Wolf]

Maybe only submissions that are tight holds should count as an attempted sub?

[aylib]

I think as it is, there are many more attempts at sub in the game than in RL, and this might only increase that number.

 

Could counter takedowns be addressed?

 

Are points discussed here on par with damage points, for instance a body shot has potential to be as damaging, if not more so than a head shot.

[MMATycoon]

Just wondering, if you land a heavy strike but just skim the opponents body/ head, do you get more points than landing an accurate clean strike to the head / body?

 

I can see a major problem with the submission attempts. In the game atm it is so easy just to spam submissions like crazy and you're giving between +1 - +10 depending on how close the submission attempt is, this gives a major advantage to submission spammers which isn't realistic at all.

 

If you try multiple submissions in one round it'll really take it out of you, either the energy system needs to be change or less points should be given for spamming submissions.

 

I'd also look into having a time variable that gives you points the longer you are in a more dominant position on the ground. Like it or not, if a wrestler gets you down in the ground and keeps you there, he'll get more points than you because he's controlling the fight.

 

1. We would just do it on damage done.

2. Sub spamming makes the subs less likely to land, so they will get less points per sub attempt.

3. It does take a lot out of you.

[TheMould]

Edit - we can also give certain judges a preference for clinch / ground / standup scoring and give them a little bio if you like, so you know what sort of scoring they are likely to give out and so that we have a bit of judge variation.

This could be amazing, as long it's just a few. Almost like preference out of 15, so most of them are 5/5/5 but some could be 4/4/7 or somthing like that.

 

Only thing I think is TD defence should give points, stop spamming the crap out of TD's.

[TheMould]

Other question is on stand-up if you allow opponent stand-up is that basically like giving them 10 points or would that be factored in?

[MMATycoon]

We can factor that in.

[aylib]

Other question is on stand-up if you allow opponent stand-up is that basically like giving them 10 points or would that be factored in?same

Clinch, as well?

[TheMould]

guess the same for "Allow TD" but guessing Mike's covering all area's with the factor in comment

[aylib]

So, if you check "allow TD" that would nullify all of opponents points from takedowns?

[nandorossi]

On the submissions personally I think it should decrease your points dramaticly for each attempts past the fisrt in each round. There are way to many sub spammers in the early going orgs.

 

Also for allowing people to takedown and stand up the person should get full points. How the hell do the judges know that I want someone to take me to the ground. In the judges eyes they see a takedown and score. If you want to be takendown you have high transistions, submissions, and or ground and pound. So you will most likely get the sweep and score off that and then start landing punches or trying for better positiions and looking for a finish. Full points should be awarded for what happens regardless what the other fighter has set on his sliders or what box was ticked imo.

[Wolf]

sub spamming should seriously decrease stamina. Only about 3 a round before you cant breath and give up position too easily

[poraan]

I analysed one round of my robbery fight with this statistic

 

My opponent "won" 1st round, but with this statistic my guy really won it 48,4 vs 38,8

 

If you gain same points with counters. Counter takedown gives 10+0,1-10 and counter clinch gives 4 points......makes no sense.