Fighting 5 lbs under or fighting heavy

[Bleakardor]

Trying to get a grip on the best way to handle this situation within a fight org. There are several fighters who weigh in over weight but can make the cut, so they get the natural power advantage. But most people are super quick to say that a fighter must be minimum weight for weight class (not under weight) due to the speed advantage.

 

Is there such a steep difference between these advantages? Is it fair to allow fighters to fight at say, 220lbs who can cut to 205, but not allow a fighter who is 195-200lbs fight at 205?

 

I've never heard anyone complain about being over weight and making weight, I assume because even though you get a power boost, it seems to take away from speed and conditioning a little? Or maybe it's just overlooked in a strikers world? But when somebody comes into a fight 5 lbs under weight, all hell breaks loose and the cheating talk begins.

 

So any insight into these "benefits" or "advantages" to help me find a finite rule to implement would be greatly appreciated. The HFC currently has fighters fight natural weight minimum for weight class but allow fighters to be heavy. And starting to question if it would be fair to allow fighters to fight up to 5lbs under weight or so to give everyone a chance to use this as part of their strategy.

[Rambo]

Vote w/c minimums. LHW = minimum 205. WW = minimum 170. etc.

 

people can cut as much weight as they want but would try to avoid the underclass fights unless the managers of the fighters propose it, i.e. champ vs champ fight or manager rivalry.

 

end of day, not big deal 200 vs 205

[Gator001]

fighter shouldnt be able to make weight for weight class below. i.e. if in 170 lb class must be above 155 on fight day otherwise you get guys taking the piss trying to beat the system with underweight fighters. I have seen fighters in some orgs who are 2 weight divisions below ie can make 144 for a 170 fight

 

its simple fighter must be in weight range for their division, or go into lower division

[10thPlanetKT]

Lighter weight = more speed & cardio (pros) less power & control (cons). Easier to counter and avoid strikes but harder to get finishes at higher levels of game in the standup unless coupled with high IQ as well as unpredictable sliders. Can fight to decision or get a sub more often coupled with IQ against overweight but will struggle in a brawl. Think Colby Covington.

 

Heavier Weight = more power and control ground and clinch, easier to get a stand up and stall from the clinch position to make opponent miss more often (pros) gasess quicker & slower (cons). The Yoel Romero factor. You can wear him down and counter them easily underweight however if he has KO Power and heart he could always come back or flash KO in the first round or the last round. Always dangerous.

 

Seems balanced to me, they are both hard to gameplay for because that is the meta. I have used both but I prefer underweight vs overweight because I prefer high striking defense over power. It is a matter of preference and neither should be banned.

[Gator001]

if under weight and granite against correctly weighted fighters you have large advantage. Look in top orgs everyone is right on the lowest weight limit they can. Tire out opponent and dominate last round (s). Definitely shouldnt be banned but if your fighter can make 145 class and fighting in 155 or 170 that is taking advantage. 170 fighters shouldnt be able to fight at 154.5 but 155.5 is ok

[10thPlanetKT]

You proved my points, that is because it is harder to get knockouts TKO's or subs in top 5 organizations. Especially at the lighter weights. People cut to the minimum so they can fight to decision and not gas quickly from body punches or body kicks. If you get the "x fighter is breathing heavily" message you will lose 90% of the time.

[Gator001]

You proved my points, that is because it is harder to get knockouts TKO's or subs in top 5 organizations. Especially at the lighter weights. People cut to the minimum so they can fight to decision and not gas quickly from body punches or body kicks. If you get the "x fighter is breathing heavily" message you will lose 90% of the time.

yep wasnt arguing with you, just making the point that weight minimum should be higher than the weight limit below

[damndaniel]

I think as long as they arnt in another weight class at fight time its fine. Maybe considered a dirty way of fighting by some but idk if it should be outlawed.

 

So if they fight at 170, as long as their walk weight is higher than 156, I say it should be legal. But I also think if managers decline fights because of that, that shouldn't be held against them. If you have a fighter who is 185 fighting at 170, and your offered fight is against a 156lber, you should feel no obligation to have to take that fight if you feel that is unfair.

[10thPlanetKT]

yep wasnt arguing with you, just making the point that weight minimum should be higher than the weight limit below

 

No problem. I just wanted to help to show that this game Mike created is more balanced than we realize. If someone tried using an underweight fighter against one of my fighters I would bulk up 20 pounds and go counter head kick. I think no more than five pounds under unless it is heavyweight is pretty fair.

[Rambo]

It's all about KO Power + IQ vs opponent Chin + Heart...

[Gator001]

I think as long as they arnt in another weight class at fight time its fine. Maybe considered a dirty way of fighting by some but idk if it should be outlawed.

 

So if they fight at 170, as long as their walk weight is higher than 156, I say it should be legal. But I also think if managers decline fights because of that, that shouldn't be held against them. If you have a fighter who is 185 fighting at 170, and your offered fight is against a 156lber, you should feel no obligation to have to take that fight if you feel that is unfair.

at 170 i have no problem fighting a 156 lber as he is in the weight class. I do have an issue if the opponent weighs in at 154.5 though as he should be in the weight class below. I only have an issue if the fighter is outside the weight class range.

 

There are some managers where they are always way below

 

but in many cases a manager has been in org long time and got fighter down to bare minimum like many of us and have accidently overstepped with weight loss and the fighter has moved into the weight range of the class below

[Rambo]

If stats and hiddens appear to be equal or in favor of my opponent, I would prefer if I am 170, my opponent is at least 170. If my opponent 185, I want my fighter as close to 185. That's just me, but I defy this logic more often than not. Seems redundant to outright decline over weight, if need more time to get weight check, so be it.

 

basically the "no excuses" factor. can't use weight as excuse after loss if both guys weighed in same weight or bare minimum difference.

[Bwang]

I don’t want to face a 155lb fighter if my guy is in the welterweight division. The minimum weight is the lower limit of the weight class. 135, 145, 155, 170, 185, 205. HW is a different one, what is the minimum weight needed to be considered a HW? I think about 220 but it’s a grey area. But for all other divisions you should be at least the weight of the weight class, or you have a significant advantage. And shouldn’t be in that division.

[10thPlanetKT]

I've seen people get angry at weighing 220 at heavyweight as well though. Do you think 5 pounds or less underweight is too much of advantage Bwang?

[Rambo]

I've seen people get angry at weighing 220 at heavyweight as well though. Do you think 5 pounds or less underweight is too much of advantage Bwang?

 

220 shouldn't be fighting at HW imo.

[10thPlanetKT]

So a minimum for heavyweight should be between like 240+ pounds?

[barney]

You proved my points, that is because it is harder to get knockouts TKO's or subs in top 5 organizations. Especially at the lighter weights. People cut to the minimum so they can fight to decision and not gas quickly from body punches or body kicks. If you get the "x fighter is breathing heavily" message you will lose 90% of the time.

TLDR: THere is always going to be a meta

[10thPlanetKT]

Shorter fighters have more speed as well though. It isn't just about weight alone. There are never height requirements in orgs.

[Rambo]

Shorter fighters have more speed as well though. It isn't just about weight alone. There are never height requirements in orgs.

 

iirc height impacts

 

• TD/TD defense
• striking (reach advantage)
• chin/KO Power (minuscule)
• subs/sub defense

[barney]

 

 

iirc height impacts

 

• TD/TD defense
• striking (reach advantage)
• chin/KO Power (minuscule)
• subs/sub defense

 

I think its unrealistic how this game treats height and sub defense. "Oh, this guy has long limbs, he is gonna get subbed really easy!".

I absolutely HATE rolling with long limbed guys. You are ALWAYS getting guillotined with those long slim fucking forearms of death much before you can get close enough for any significant damage. If you DO manage to put them on their back, those fucking horrible long legs of doom start going De La Riva/berimbolo on you, or even worse, lapel/worm/squid guard. I have an easier time - A LOT EASIER - against thucked limbs that I can get close enough to pressure the double under/over under/weaving leg and start pressuring little by little without getting guillotined or berimbolo'd. And thats coming from a guy that actually ENJOYS the game outside the meta that could be kinda troublesome to these guys... I like playing 50-50, kneeled pressure passing and half guard (either top or bottom). Thats my go to.... Even still, fighting long limb guys sucks balls.

But I do understand there must be mechanical ballance. Just bothers me the fluff n stuff used

[10thPlanetKT]

I think there is a way to change that in the game engine conditionally. If you have a fighter with good IQ/tall than they could get a hidden called "arms like legs," and be slightly better than grapplers that are short.

[Bleakardor]

Well, I feel more knowledgeable and yet still confused on what to do here.. lol

 

Thanks for the input guys, guess there's just no way to set something that will make everyone happy.

[Bwang]

5lbs underweight would be an advantage. It may be a crucial advantage, it may not. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and logically it makes sense to me that the fighters walk around weight should be the lower weight limit or above. Why leave a grey area that will upset some people. Have a rule and stick to it.

[Monsieur.Camara]

It`s not complicated. Just dont accept fighters below their weight class (before weight cut).

 

for example:

 

145 Division: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=350297

 

This guy is 145 on the dot and cuts down to 131.5

 

He is ok.

 

This one not so much as he is 4 lbs. below his weight class (170) and already cuts to 151 lbs.

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=350009

 

Noob managers won`t complain about the speed hack but more competent ones will. Good / competent managers will agree to gain weight until the minimum of each weight class because they know what they are doing.

 

Super Fights are different but as long as the managers agree then there should be no problem. What you don`t want to do is have a manager abuse the speed hack by holding the belt in his dividion plus the one above.

[10thPlanetKT]

Hey Camara there is a reason I wanted SSS to be 165. As you know as fighters progress the harder it is to get submissions or TKO's on the ground. Escapes & defensive grappling when elite as a striker are overpowerwed so I used less weight as a balancing mechanism because faster fighters can get more takedowns. Only managers that are striking oriented complain about underweight fighters because they don't understand the counter or think this is KT Tycoon it is not. Just counter KO + clinch control. Almost no managers with grapplers complain about escapes and how hard it is to keep it on the ground. Even your guy Fray Torments was 244 in Underground getting subs at one point . Under 265 is still underweight. You do the same thing.