List of Training Changes

[Guest]

OK something that I need to clear up regarding that skill "cap" of 2600. I can see how that wasn't clear enough.

 

What it says is around 82%, which is around 2600 over all skills. Now, that 82% applies over physicals, primaries and secondaries seperately. So you will get levelled off around 82% in each of those 3 categories and can't just put everything on primaries and neglect physicals for example. Of course, with the aptitude thing, you can get quite a bit of variation if you like and have physicals probably up at 90% ish if you put all your aptitude in the physicals.

 

I am currently tweaking this at the moment so there may well be a little bit more variation.

 

I feel as if applying the 82% seperately to physicals, as apart from primaires and secondaries will create too much uniformity in fighter's physcial builds. Exceptional physicals + one sensational non-cardio physcial and sensational cardio will be the norm for all fighters with extremely little variation by the nature of the original build which generally focuses some points into cardio and some points into one other physical. Putting a soft cap on it prevents variation. I also think that it makes CT coaches somewhat less relevant. In the long-term, it probably makes no sense to do anymore than 50-60 CTs. 100 CTs, today, with no other training, would put you on the brink of the 82% physical soft cap. I think there are enough secondaries that the approximately 1350 points you get can create variation and the same thing with the primaries. If anything, I think that the change will absolutely force people to spar more to squeeze the maximum potential

 

However, I think the concept of a soft cap works better to create variation as an across the board soft cap as opposed to an individual cap for each overriding category. Some guys may choose to be physical beasts, some may choose to hide their abilities with secondaries, some guys may choose to be elite ++ physical monsters who get by on athleticism as opposed to skill. Eventually, everyone will hit the individual 82% caps, but an across the board cap would allow guys to specialize a bit more in one category versus another.

[MMATycoon]

Again to clarify my clarification...

 

The overall skills still do play a part, so you could go with 84% physicals, 82% primaries and 80% secondaries if you wanted too, without any trouble. BUT you wouldn't be able to go crazy in one of the three fields and get someone who was over 90% in physicals without having to train circuits basically every 3rd or 4th session.

[Guest]

Forgive me if I sound like an idiot here. I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, but can someone just explain to me what happens when you have 5 useless boxers and 5 elite boxers sparring at the same time? I understand they are split in to 2 groups. Do they each receive the same level of training because each group consists of members that are all the same level? I'm just a little confused about what to do with a useless fighter that will automatically be grouped with the lowests members of each sparring class.

 

Yes, they gain the same. The max gain is when your fighter is sparring with people 20% better than him. So, your useless fighter with 2 in that skill only needs to get another partner with 2.4(which round down to 2 or round up to 3) to get the maximum gain. The elite group with 140 will actually need partners that has 168(which is impossible) to get the best gain. If you look into the math, you can be assured that your useless fighter will actually gain the maximum gain like in every sparring session of 5 and more fighters, no matter if they are just abysmal or woeful.

 

In short, yes for your Q.

[Guest]

Yes, they gain the same. The max gain is when your fighter is sparring with people 20% better than him. So, your useless fighter with 2 in that skill only needs to get another partner with 2.4(which round down to 2 or round up to 3) to get the maximum gain. The elite group with 140 will actually need partners that has 168(which is impossible) to get the best gain. If you look into the math, you can be assured that your useless fighter will actually gain the maximum gain like in every sparring session of 5 and more fighters, no matter if they are just abysmal or woeful.

 

In short, yes for your Q.

 

On the point of maximum sparring training for elite fighter, I think a change should be instituted (or maybe its already accounted for), but anyone who scores 146 or higher will automatically provide the best sparring possible to anyone below them. Otherwise, once you hit Exceptional+ you cannot get the best training available. Seems to be a flaw in the system.

[Guest]

I think there should be separate training for every physical to go along with circuits or most guys will end up with the same physicals in the long run with maintenance and decline slowly bringing whatever peak physical you have (at least if it's agility or balance) to the level of the others.

 

 

Again to clarify my clarification...

 

The overall skills still do play a part, so you could go with 84% physicals, 82% primaries and 80% secondaries if you wanted too, without any trouble. BUT you wouldn't be able to go crazy in one of the three fields and get someone who was over 90% in physicals without having to train circuits basically every 3rd or 4th session.

 

Every 3rd or 4th session sounds like a very cheap price to pay for 90% of physicals.

[MMATycoon]

I think there should be separate training for every physical to go along with circuits or most guys will end up with the same physicals in the long run with maintenance and decline slowly bringing whatever peak physical you have (at least if it's agility or balance) to the level of the others.

 

Every 3rd or 4th session sounds like a very cheap price to pay for 90% of physicals.

As mentioned on the wiki there will be different variations of circuits.

 

As for the second point, you get + on your tickers for every primary and secondary if you train circuits so it's gunna be tricky to balance if you wanted to go that high.

[MMATycoon]

On the point of maximum sparring training for elite fighter, I think a change should be instituted (or maybe its already accounted for), but anyone who scores 146 or higher will automatically provide the best sparring possible to anyone below them. Otherwise, once you hit Exceptional+ you cannot get the best training available. Seems to be a flaw in the system.

That makes no sense to me. The whole point of "max sparring partners" for lower level guys is training with people better than you. If there isn't anyone better than you, you can't train with someone better than you.... sooooooo....

[Guest]

As mentioned on the wiki there will be different variations of circuits.

 

Ok, missed that part, looks good. I don't see why there can't be one version per physical though.

[Guest]

That makes no sense to me. The whole point of "max sparring partners" for lower level guys is training with people better than you. If there isn't anyone better than you, you can't train with someone better than you.... sooooooo....

 

Well, if you are training with a guy who ranks 146/150 (97.33%), you are training with the best. It seems to lack logic that you can't have a "max sparring partner" if you are training with the best the game has to offer.

[zetr0]

Such question already can was, but I wanted to ask: How it is long necessary not to train skill that it has started to fall?

 

Thanks

[MMATycoon]

You ARE getting the max sparring partner - it's just that the max sparring partner isn't better than you. If you're the best in the world, you can't train with someone better than you. It's literally impossible.

[MMATycoon]

Such question already can was, but I wanted to ask: How it is long necessary not to train skill that it has started to fall?

 

Thanks

It totally depends, so I can't answer that question, you will have to wait and see.

[Guest]

I love the sparring changes. I have been asking for it for a long time. That is how sparring works in real life. A noob can walk into BJJ class and the black belt can teach you, he can also demonstrate moves and go through the motions slowly. But that isnt sparring. Sparring is a simulated fight/match where you just make sure no one gets hurt. The noob would learn nothing sparring with a black belt that taps him every 15 seconds(i know from experience lol), Same if you get your head beat in by Mike Tyson in a boxing gym. You learn best practicing your moves on someone close to your skill level(sometimes worse than you).

[Guest]

I think this is almost way too much. I appreciate all this work but I think changes like this should be implemented one small step at a time. I already feel my Tycoon love dwindling and now everyone is expected to learn and understand how the game works all over again. I think this will push more people away from the game than draw them in.

 

There are reasons why the user base has been on a constant decline. The whole structure and mechanics of the game is forever changing. And the user base has been forever dropping. Maybe we should stop and have some stability? Sure, the passionate Tycoon veterans will adapt to these changes with no problem, but I'm afraid that it will stunt the growth and interest in the game.

 

Or are we at a point in the game where we've conceded that it's growth has stopped and are just trying to maintain the support of it's core followers (VIP Veterans)

[Guest]

Amen..

[Guest]

I think this is almost way too much. I appreciate all this work but I think changes like this should be implemented one small step at a time. I already feel my Tycoon love dwindling and now everyone is expected to learn and understand how the game works all over again. I think this will push more people away from the game than draw them in.

 

There are reasons why the user base has been on a constant decline. The whole structure and mechanics of the game is forever changing. And the user base has been forever dropping. Maybe we should stop and have some stability? Sure, the passionate Tycoon veterans will adapt to these changes with no problem, but I'm afraid that it will stunt the growth and interest in the game.

 

Or are we at a point in the game where we've conceded that it's growth has stopped and are just trying to maintain the support of it's core followers (VIP Veterans)

 

I think changes like these (although I would have liked them harsher) are a must if the game is ever to grow again.

[jacky67]

What it says is around 82%, which is around 2600 over all skills. Now, that 82% applies over physicals, primaries and secondaries seperately. So you will get levelled off around 82% in each of those 3 categories and can't just put everything on primaries and neglect physicals for example. Of course, with the aptitude thing, you can get quite a bit of variation if you like and have physicals probably up at 90% ish if you put all your aptitude in the physicals.

 

 

Then every players will have the same fighters , we can't even choose if a fighter is a physicals monster or a primaries monster .

And like someone told we can't train balance ,agility or Flexibility alone that's a big issue .

[ajperok]

Excellent. Sounds good!

 

Will we be prompted to select aptitude for all our current fighters?

 

 

I second that question? It sounds like the Aptitudes (along with hiddens) will really be what gives our fighters identity.

 

 

 

as for the sparring,

is says having 4 Elite partners is better than having 1 Elite partner. It doesn't say having 1 Elite partner is sucky training.

 

 

 

On a side note: I have a feeling the MMATycoon braintrust has thought this through more than some of us are giving them credit for. Many of these topics were debated for more than a year. For my part, I think I'll just shut up and see how things work out over the next few months.

[PBR]

On a side note: I have a feeling the MMATycoon braintrust has thought this through more than some of us are giving them credit for. Many of these topics were debated for more than a year. For my part, I think I'll just shut up and see how things work out over the next few months.

they were and for most part think everything is okay -- of course some things might need tweak months from now or sometime down the line but nothing is ever perfect

[Guest]

I second that question? It sounds like the Aptitudes (along with hiddens) will really be what gives our fighters identity.

 

And I second the answer:

 

Yes, it was mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

As for the sparring, a 1-1 with a 140 is like a 128, mentioned in wiki so that's a 8%-9% decrease in efficiency for 1-1 compared against 1-4.

[Guest]

Did not get past this part yet:

When sparring in groups of 10 or more, the session will be automatically split up so that people spar with fighters closest to their own skill level (based on the new “sparring value”).

 

1-9 fighters = 1 group. 10-14 fighters = 2 groups. Top group of 5 fighters and the rest in group 2. 15+ fighters = 3 groups. First two groups of 5 fighters and the rest in group 3.

 

Example sparring session involving 12 fighters, with the following skills in boxing (using the new sparring value). 25, 27, 31, 36, 40, 50, 55, 60, 90, 110, 133, 142. Previously, everyone would have sparred with everyone and received an average sparring partner based on the other 11 fighters. Now those 12 fighters would be split up into two groups as follows. 25, 27, 31, 36, 40, 50, 55 train together. (7 fighters in the lower skilled group). 60, 90, 110, 133, 142 train together. (5 fighters in the top skilled group). The average sparring partner for each fighter is now calculated based only on the other fighters in his group.

 

What this means: If you want to have total control over who you spar with, you can still organise your own smaller groups, which will remain unaffected by this change. However this change should prove extremely beneficial to good fighters in larger gyms. If gyms have a big group session, top fighters will be guaranteed the best training possible in that gym.

 

Basically means that Abysmal fighters will now stay Abysmal longer, instead of getting the benefit of being the crappiest in the group and therefore having a high level training average?

Then again, maybe getting past wonderful will now be possible in public spars.

 

EDIT1:Ok I got past it now, all the way to

2. Opposing skills. We view certain skills as opposing each other. For instance, having a high level of BJJ and Wrestling will make it harder to maintain a high level in Boxing or Muay Thai. However, having a high Muay Thai skill will not negatively affect your ability to maintain a high skill in Boxing. This applies to physical, primary and secondary skills. This effect only kicks in at a certain point and does not have any impact on the low to mid-levels. Opposing skills don't mean you can't maintain stranger fighter builds, it just means it takes a bit more work.

 

This is basically what I asked for before, as these exceptional across the board people are weird. Although I'd hope it works more on physicals -> Super strength eating up cardio faster while negatively affecting agility and speed, etc.

 

EDIT2:

What you will have to pay a bit more attention to is offering your guys a varied training schedule if they are at a high level, in order to maintain their skills. Of course, you can still get around this by fighting regularly....

 

Does this suggest that fighting helps prevent decay? As far as I can tell, fighting gives you experience, but might result in an energy loss that keeps you from training for a week in a bad case. Of course with the added age factors, injuries, and all sorts of decays, this could really bite you in the butt.

 

I guess I'll have to switch back to all out aggression to keep fights short one way or the other =)

[Grey]

I think this is almost way too much. I appreciate all this work but I think changes like this should be implemented one small step at a time. I already feel my Tycoon love dwindling and now everyone is expected to learn and understand how the game works all over again. I think this will push more people away from the game than draw them in.

 

There are reasons why the user base has been on a constant decline. The whole structure and mechanics of the game is forever changing. And the user base has been forever dropping. Maybe we should stop and have some stability? Sure, the passionate Tycoon veterans will adapt to these changes with no problem, but I'm afraid that it will stunt the growth and interest in the game.

 

Or are we at a point in the game where we've conceded that it's growth has stopped and are just trying to maintain the support of it's core followers (VIP Veterans)

 

The exact thing can be said if Mike does what you say and stops updating the game. Nothing gets improved and people get bored and leave. What fundamental structure and mechanics have really been changed recently? I can't think of any. I'm honestly really surprised that you actually want the game to just go stagnant.

[Grasman]

Is joining a large sparring group consisting of fighters with a wide array of rating from 1-15, going to be "luck of the draw"?

 

What i mean is, if the fighters are split up in groups, could you consistently have your "proficient--" fighter end up in a group where he is the strongest fighter in the group, therefore learning a lot less than he would if he was the crappiest fighter in another group?

 

Basically, the bigger the group the higher the risk of ending up as the groups top rated fighter?

 

Or is this going to be the "virtual value" of his closest peers, so he never ends up as either the top or the bottom fighter?

 

Please explain.

[Guest]

Basically means that Abysmal fighters will now stay Abysmal longer, instead of getting the benefit of being the crappiest in the group and therefore having a high level training average?

Then again, maybe getting past wonderful will now be possible in public spars.

 

Nope. In the upcoming sparring setting, your fighter only needs to train with someone 20% better than him to get maximum gain. So if your fighter is at abysmal and 19, he needs to train with a group of 19*1.2 = 22.8 for maximum gain. That means your abysmal fighter will get maximum gain easily because 22.8 is very very very very very easy to get.

 

If your fighter is at abysmal and 19, he will gain the same if he is sparring with a group of 5 elites that make up a number of 140 or a sucky group that make up of 25 because the requirement of his maximum gain is merely 22.8. You just need to break 22.8 for maximum gain.

[sergio]

I loved many of the ideas, especially the sparring.

 

I would love if this idea (http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18007&st=0&p=206380 & # entry206380)

 

I loved this idea.

I think that would greatly improve the game and would be more contested.