DeadlyDirk Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I was thinking about this a bit tonite, and I like most peoples suggestions.... just a few others to throw out. 1) punch exchanges. It's not always he swings then he swings. Sometimes it's "this guy lands a big body shot and that guy counters with a 2 punch combo at the same time". You can counter punches that land, not just punches that miss. This goes for the 100% aggro/accuracy leg kicker type too... yeah, you have kicked me 30X, but if it doesn't hurt I'm going to start countering right through those leg kicks. 2) Aggressive also should mean willing to take punches to land one. We see this in real life all the time. Some brawler willing to take 2 or 3 punches just to land just one. I mentioned this above, but after I get hit 30x and take no damage, I am going to start coming right thru those punches just to land a few. If he is already hitting at 90+%, why even bother trying to defend? Most strike percentage should increase as I realize I don't have to defend if he can't really hurt me. Along with some of the other ideas, I think if these two are looked at we could have a nice improvement. But the bottom line is you don't have fights where one fighter lands 360/365 strikes and another lands like 2/100. Those extremes need to come in a bit. Yeh definitely agree with striking at the same time as I said before, and agree that someone doesn't nesicarily have to miss for them to be countered. I remember an interview with Rashad where I think he was talking about his fight vs Griffin where he said to himself, 'Next time he leg kicks me I'm gonna crack him in the face and he'll stop kicking me'. He tried it and it worked from what I remember him saying. Of course this would add another weapon to the counter striker so maybe it's just something that needs balancing a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrClean Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Because you end up missing 99% of your shots if you do. Especially if the other guy is taller than you. You gotta hit them to hurt them. If I have enough of an advantage in striking I add more power. I tend to set it based on my opponent. I look at their past opponents accuracy against them on a fight by fight basis. But, when I see guys whose opponents only average 10% then I know I need accuracy/counter just to survive long enough to clinch or shoot. Is that why I keep missing all my punches? Shit, now I see why keep losing all my fights. If I just put a little more accuracy into it and less power then maybe I could win a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 More or less needs to be brought in line with actual striking, i'd say, though frankly I don't have much of an issue with it. I know the solution for high counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 More or less needs to be brought in line with actual striking, i'd say, though frankly I don't have much of an issue with it. I know the solution for high counter. Avoid Fighting Them? Because looking at your last 20 fights I can't see where you have faced anyone who has used that strategy against you. So, yep that is a good solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Didn't look hard enough, really. But i'm not going to go letting the cat out of the bag now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Wow, brown belt. As a followup, I don't "avoid fighting" anyone, really. That's a surefire way to frustration and never learning how to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well if 100%counter 100%accuracy is what you think is the best strategy use it , but then don't complain when you will loose . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBoar Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I still like my idea of a slider for throwing feints to bait a counter striker in and then taking his head off. This will cause the first death in MMA TYCOON, LoL. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Well if 100%counter 100%accuracy is what you think is the best strategy use it , but then don't complain when you will loose . same goes for you.......... no one is asking to see your strategy, but I would love to read the PbP from one of these fights where someone came out 100% counter/100% accuracy and lost the striking game to someone other than someone who was employing the same strategy. Several people are having a discussion on how we feel about the striking game and what can improve it, and I hear It's not broke, I know how to beat it, but I can't show you, and I don't have any fights that you can find where I did......... etc, etc,etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 same goes for you.......... no one is asking to see your strategy, but I would love to read the PbP from one of these fights where someone came out 100% counter/100% accuracy and lost the striking game to someone other than someone who was employing the same strategy. Several people are having a discussion on how we feel about the striking game and what can improve it, and I hear It's not broke, I know how to beat it, but I can't show you, and I don't have any fights that you can find where I did......... etc, etc,etc... Well I've agreed that there is a problem but if there is a way to beat it I don't expect someone to suddenly post the solution to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 A PbP is public knowledge. Both guys that claim it's easy to beat or whatever, haven't faced anyone in their last 20 fights who used the strategy. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure there are ways to win. There are other factors in the game. I was just looking for one PbP to validate the statements that nothing needs tweaked. I am perfectly comfortable being told I am wrong and I just need to work through it, however, when I am told that I like to see justification. I don't think that's outrageous or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 A PBP may be public knowledge but linking a fight that you used a particular strategy for isn't, that's up to you to work out for yourself and spot. Admittedly Kryonik didn't win the fight but if you look at his last fight it looks like someone used that strategy to beat him so to suggest he hasn't faced anyone like that is a little silly. There are ways to beat it, I'm sure of that, I still believe it needs to be brought in line a little though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 same goes for you.......... no one is asking to see your strategy, but I would love to read the PbP from one of these fights where someone came out 100% counter/100% accuracy and lost the striking game to someone other than someone who was employing the same strategy. Several people are having a discussion on how we feel about the striking game and what can improve it, and I hear It's not broke, I know how to beat it, but I can't show you, and I don't have any fights that you can find where I did......... etc, etc,etc... Not 100, but pretty damned close. I actually had it posted, but i'm not making that public. Feel free to drop me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I guess I was sort of focused on the last two that this guy lost. The first one I thought that was the strategy, the 2nd one I know it was. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=300329 Head punch: 195 (195) Body punch: 165 (163) Punch combo: 57 (46) http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=315373 Head punch: 108 (102) Body punch: 78 (70) Punch combo: 65 (31) That's not even my fighter, and I know the guy who lost was a very aggressive fighter and came out the same way every fight, but even so that is the thing I would like to see adjusted. Even if he had the absolute worst strategy possible, heck even if I myself has zero boxing experience in my life were to go into the ring, I'm betting I could defend my head at least one time out of 195 punches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Both guys that claim it's easy to beat or whatever, haven't faced anyone in their last 20 fights who used the strategy. That's all I'm saying. I did face one but i won't show you . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I guess I was sort of focused on the last two that this guy lost. The first one I thought that was the strategy, the 2nd one I know it was. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=300329 Head punch: 195 (195) Body punch: 165 (163) Punch combo: 57 (46) http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=315373 Head punch: 108 (102) Body punch: 78 (70) Punch combo: 65 (31) That's not even my fighter, and I know the guy who lost was a very aggressive fighter and came out the same way every fight, but even so that is the thing I would like to see adjusted. Even if he had the absolute worst strategy possible, heck even if I myself has zero boxing experience in my life were to go into the ring, I'm betting I could defend my head at least one time out of 195 punches! I wasn't disagreeing with you, really. I think the ridiculous bit is that counter strikers -can't be hit-, or at least it's not terribly common knowledge, when in real life good counterstrikers tend to tank some hits and have a good chin, and use their speed/technique to strike back when they slip punches or eat winged ones. Would like this to play more of a factor here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 A PbP is public knowledge. Both guys that claim it's easy to beat or whatever, haven't faced anyone in their last 20 fights who used the strategy. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure there are ways to win. There are other factors in the game. I was just looking for one PbP to validate the statements that nothing needs tweaked. I am perfectly comfortable being told I am wrong and I just need to work through it, however, when I am told that I like to see justification. I don't think that's outrageous or anything. you can read any of my fights -- never been 100% counter 100% acc ever in this game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Shoot TD's on me all you like. When I go full counter you will still miss 39 out of 40 and sometimes even worse. Ding! The defensive bonus that 100% counter grants is so huge that I have Remarkable Wrestling/Mediocre TD Defense guys routinely stuffing TD's like they were Sens/Sens. The vast majority of the losses I have had recently have been when I got bored being at 100% counter or when I edged that damage slider up too high in an attempt to stop seeing decisions and got counter-whacked myself on the missed aggressive moves that my guys still attempt at 100% counter. It could probably stand a bit of tweaking. My thought would be to increase the offensive bonuses granted by high aggro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Good thread. Where is Mike Tycoon in all this? Can we have him to comment this? Because it is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jls.monster Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 This is where acc/dmg for for all the different strikes needs to start being implemented, and perhaps a gnp dmg/acc slider. So much slider debate, might as well of brought it up. But also: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=313796 This fight was me at 60 agg/60 acc with a solid standup slider setup. VS Virtuouz at 100% counter. Now my fighter has the same MT, 4 steps higher in boxing, and Elite-Exc secondaries mixed with Sens-Won physicals. Virtuouz didnt have a physical over Proficient at that, and STILL won the last round. Now 100% counter is really, really to strong imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 100% counter does give extreme defensive bonuses, no doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 The way I would fix it might be a bitch to code but way more realistic. 1. Make the damage accuracy slider like the other sliders. X percent of all strikes will be power and X percent will be accurate. Quite often I see counter guys throwing more strikes than aggressive ones. That is because every shot the other guy throws is a miss and countered plus the counter guy has maybe 10% aggressive strikes to toss in. The aggressive guy gets winded and it really can look silly sometimes. This fix is designed to somewhat counter the defensive bonus of too much countering by having a set percent of strikes getting the full accuracy bonus and a set percent still able to take your head off while being less accurate. In real life you are not measuring your strikes to be 65% power. You are mixing in strikes to control your opponent and strikes to take their head off. 2. Allow counters to also land when your opponent hits you. It happens in life and it hurts. This could also allow for some flash KO's that could go either way. 3. Make leg kicks less accurate or frequent against more aggressive fighters. Leg kicks are more useful against counter fighters or guys sitting back waiting for a chance to shoot on you. They are nearly impossible to setup against a guy that is swarming you. The game should reflect this. Too many counter leg kick spammers beating aggressive fighters so bad they stop attacking. It should be a great tool to stop a guy who is sitting back waiting to counter you. Not the other way around. 4. Make counters less frequent but up the damage on them a bit more. As with my 1st point a 90% counter fighter should never throw more strikes than a 90% aggressive fighter. They should just be more damaging since they catch you off balance or when you are open. The amount to change this would be based on how much effect my 1st point has. It may render this un-needed. 5. Possibly lower the amount a judge scores a counter fighter. In life there are so many times the counter fighter won on all our scorecards but the judges just were not impressed by the lack of aggression. Think Phan vs Garcia. If the fight is close to a tie the aggressor should win in most cases. Not a huge drop, but there should be some score for aggression and control that does not seem to be getting full credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Leg kicks are really easy against guy rushing on you ,they will never check it and stop their attack because they are hit ,the more easy when someone rush on you is still front kick i don't get why no one use it in mma . About 2 i think it's rare to be clearly hit and then counter at the same time except in the clinch . Someone talk about feints and that's true it's really commun but as front kick i don't see a lot of guys in mma throwing feints . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Leg kicks are really easy against guy rushing on you ,they will never check it and stop their attack because they are hit ,the more easy when someone rush on you is still front kick i don't get why no one use it in mma . About 2 i think it's rare to be clearly hit and then counter at the same time except in the clinch . Someone talk about feints and that's true it's really commun but as front kick i don't see a lot of guys in mma throwing feints . They don't use it because the opponent is too close to get your leg out there. Especially when they are attacking at angles. You kick the guy that is at or just beyond punching range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrClean Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Leg kicks are really easy against guy rushing on you ,they will never check it and stop their attack because they are hit ,the more easy when someone rush on you is still front kick i don't get why no one use it in mma . About 2 i think it's rare to be clearly hit and then counter at the same time except in the clinch . Someone talk about feints and that's true it's really commun but as front kick i don't see a lot of guys in mma throwing feints . I used to wonder the same thing (and apparently so did steven seagal) until Silva and then Machida (jumping) both used front kicks to finish fights. Too close you say?........not always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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