Fedor is the best fighter

[Guest]

Fedor was a champion for 10 years in PRIDE hw division witch had better fighters then UFC division by far. Also the age think first of all HW ussualy are much older then other weight classes. If you look even now at UFC hw diviosion on TOP 10 only JDS is younger then 30 and he is 29. Also you did your calculations little wrong I am look up Fedors recond and he has fought guys younger than 30 and these guys are Renato Sobral, Ricardo Arona, Heath Herring, Semmy Schilt.

 

Cain won the belt at 28 years old. Santos won the belt at 27. Both have been in the UFC since they were like 25. My point is the UFC is always open to the best in the world so guys in their prime can get in and keep the old guys honest. That wasnt the case in Pride. Young fighters couldnt get in so Fedor never had to beat any of them. Then later he used his leverage to avoid anyone he didnt match up well with. This is why he never fought Barnett or Werdum while in Pride. Also Fedor didnt have the Pride belt for 10 years. Pride didnt even last 10 years. Fedor won the belt in 2003 and Pride went under in 2007. That isnt 10 years. Also his fights with Babalu, Herring, and Schilt were more than 26 fights ago. Pay attention! Also lets not forget the UFC has guys like Struve, Schaub, Browne, etc who are young and decent fighters. Basically there is new blood to make sure the early 30 year olds are on top of their game. Someone in their prime to be compared to. Go look at Sudokuju and see what happens when you have a league of old guys and throw a young athlete in the mix.

[Guest]

Cain won the belt at 28 years old. Santos won the belt at 27. Both have been in the UFC since they were like 25. My point is the UFC is always open to the best in the world so guys in their prime can get in and keep the old guys honest. That wasnt the case in Pride. Young fighters couldnt get in so Fedor never had to beat any of them. Then later he used his leverage to avoid anyone he didnt match up well with. This is why he never fought Barnett or Werdum while in Pride. Also Fedor didnt have the Pride belt for 10 years. Pride didnt even last 10 years. Fedor won the belt in 2003 and Pride went under in 2007. That isnt 10 years. Also his fights with Babalu, Herring, and Schilt were more than 26 fights ago. Pay attention! Also lets not forget the UFC has guys like Struve, Schaub, Browne, etc who are young and decent fighters. Basically there is new blood to make sure the early 30 year olds are on top of their game. Someone in their prime to be compared to. Go look at Sudokuju and see what happens when you have a league of old guys and throw a young athlete in the mix.

 

Ye there where but now they arent so based on what you said if Cain beats up some one from top 10 except JDS who is 29 he will win washed up fighter. I very douth that Barnett who lost 3 times to Cro Cop was that bad mach up for Fedor also Werdud lost to Nog so it doest make no sense.

 

Yes my mistake he wasn champion in the PRIDE for 10 years he was champion for few but after pride he won some UFC champions so he is consideret to be best HW and best figher at that point for 10 years have ever looked up in Wikipedia PRIDE was for 10 years.

 

26 fights away from what? You said that he hasnt fought anyone younger before Nogs fight in 2004 so at that point he didnt even had that much fights.

 

Dont get me wrong but we are talking about to fighters because Fedor was holding tittle and was fighting them not young guys (based on record) same as it works in UFC. And look up your mentioned 3 guy records two of them where just KOd by guys who Fedor dominated and that was almost 10 years ago but these guys are still KOing cats in UFC not to even mention that Hunt ir 39 and Nog is 36 where last gut also just was KOd by 33 year old Silva.

[Guest]

I think he already and i dont even factor those fights in. Even thought Chael and Vitor were unranked at 205 due to lack of recent fights. They both are clearly top 10 level. Vitor used to be 205 champ at one time and Chael can easily beat half of the top 10. But looking past that he has wins over Machida in his Prime. Bader in his prime, Shogun who probably never had a prime, and a prime Rashad Evans. Even though Bader isnt that great. He is easily better than the 3rd best fighter any other champ had ever beat. Maybe even better than some of the champs best opponent ever. If we look at Chuck he had some big wins over old guys past their prime. Honestly i cant think of anyone even close to him. Evans, Machida, Rampage, Bader is by far better wins than anyone else not to mention having not lose and he completey destroyed each one of them. Wany already had losses early in his career to Vitor and Tito and didnt have the 205 wins. Fighting mostly cans. Shogun had a good year in 2005 but nothing else really. Tito was on top of the world at one point but the competition wasnt even close to what it is today.

 

lol i love how youll say something like "vitor was LHW champ" to support your argument, but then completely try to undermine shogun and fedor's accomplishments. vitor was LHW champ on a freak accident. he never had a real relevant win at 205...he lost all the big fights.

 

neither vitor or chael are "clearly" top 10 at 205. neither has won a fight in the division in years. middleweight has been the second worst division in the ufc for a long time...it's much easier to be a top fighter there than at 205. if chael and vitor had to fight at 205 and actually earn title shots, they wouldnt even make it to jones.

 

beating those guys means nothing for jones in reality. they were impressive wins, but they werent relevant challengers or tough fights for him.

 

imo, chuck, shogun, and rampage have the best resumes at 205. obviously chuck's career didnt end well, and shogun and rampage are going through a similar situation as of now. we cant ignore what they did in the past. as someone who has watched the sport since 1988, i expected mroe from you brainsmasher.

[AK47]

my personal GOAT list contains of

 

Anderson Silva

Aldo

GSP

Jones

Fedor

Hendo

Big Nog

fuck it if you pick either one of these i'd be happy

[rac2]

^ I like it!

[Guest]

lol i love how youll say something like "vitor was LHW champ" to support your argument, but then completely try to undermine shogun and fedor's accomplishments. vitor was LHW champ on a freak accident. he never had a real relevant win at 205...he lost all the big fights.

 

neither vitor or chael are "clearly" top 10 at 205. neither has won a fight in the division in years. middleweight has been the second worst division in the ufc for a long time...it's much easier to be a top fighter there than at 205. if chael and vitor had to fight at 205 and actually earn title shots, they wouldnt even make it to jones.

 

beating those guys means nothing for jones in reality. they were impressive wins, but they werent relevant challengers or tough fights for him.

 

imo, chuck, shogun, and rampage have the best resumes at 205. obviously chuck's career didnt end well, and shogun and rampage are going through a similar situation as of now. we cant ignore what they did in the past. as someone who has watched the sport since 1988, i expected mroe from you brainsmasher.

Vitor was champ by a fluke. But him being in the title fight to begin with wasn't a fluke and was my point. He has always been a threat and a top fighter anywhere he has fought. Do you think Chael would beat Hendo right now? Anyone with a brain would think so. Even when he was ranked #2 recently. Would that win not put him in the top 10 and likely top 5 in just about every major ranking? Of course it would. Since he would likely beat at least half the top 10. Odds are he would be ranked. Again like every fighter it would depend on what fights he was given. If the UFC wanted him to be ranked he clearly would be. IF they didn't then he wouldn't be top 10....I didn't discredit Shogun. I give him credit for the year he made the biggest impact at 205. All his biggest wins were in 2005. 1 year doesn't make a career. I give Fedor credit for being one of the best. But if he wants to be better than everyone else he has to earn it by proving it. Not leaving it up to be decided in internet arguments. He has every chance to set himself apart by who he beat rather than just dragging it out and avoiding a loss. Ironic you say Jones beating blown up 185 fighters doesn't count. But Fedor was the king of doing that and just buying time. While you called him the best ever. Chuck had a great career. The problem when comparing him to Jones is he lost to Rampage and Couture even in his peak. Hard to call him the greatest when Rampage had his number. Cant say Rampage was the best when Wandy had his number as well as Shogun. No one has Jon Jones number thus far and he has more quality wins than any of them and has done it more impressively.

[Guest]

Ye there where but now they arent so based on what you said if Cain beats up some one from top 10 except JDS who is 29 he will win washed up fighter. I very douth that Barnett who lost 3 times to Cro Cop was that bad mach up for Fedor also Werdud lost to Nog so it doest make no sense.

 

Yes my mistake he wasn champion in the PRIDE for 10 years he was champion for few but after pride he won some UFC champions so he is consideret to be best HW and best figher at that point for 10 years have ever looked up in Wikipedia PRIDE was for 10 years.

 

26 fights away from what? You said that he hasnt fought anyone younger before Nogs fight in 2004 so at that point he didnt even had that much fights.

 

Dont get me wrong but we are talking about to fighters because Fedor was holding tittle and was fighting them not young guys (based on record) same as it works in UFC. And look up your mentioned 3 guy records two of them where just KOd by guys who Fedor dominated and that was almost 10 years ago but these guys are still KOing cats in UFC not to even mention that Hunt ir 39 and Nog is 36 where last gut also just was KOd by 33 year old Silva.

Yes Santos and Cain will get older. BUt rest assure in the next 5 years they will compete against other guys under 30 years old. Im not saying everyone over 30 sucks. Im saying it is at this point some people start to fall off. If there is no new blood to test them. They will keep being recycled. You mentioned Nog. Are you aware of who he has beat in the UFC? Not 1 meaningful win. But has been destroyed by Mir twice who isn't a consistant fighter at all and a shadow of his former self and he was wrecked by Cain. It is very possible Nog shouldn't be in the UFC. But he is a name and the UFC will try to keep him around for a while since Brazil is now a hot spot. But because the UFC brings in the best fighters and doesn't recycle the same has beens. A old Big Nog will never get the belt in the UFC. He is just a name to get other guys over. Hunt is old as hell and one dimensional. Look at the fights he had to be given to win. All strikers to fight and a guy who shouldn't have been in the UFC. If you think he is a top ranked guy then you are letting the UFC making making fool you. I can name 20 guys who would steam roll him.

[Guest]

Yes Santos and Cain will get older. BUt rest assure in the next 5 years they will compete against other guys under 30 years old. Im not saying everyone over 30 sucks. Im saying it is at this point some people start to fall off. If there is no new blood to test them. They will keep being recycled. You mentioned Nog. Are you aware of who he has beat in the UFC? Not 1 meaningful win. But has been destroyed by Mir twice who isn't a consistant fighter at all and a shadow of his former self and he was wrecked by Cain. It is very possible Nog shouldn't be in the UFC. But he is a name and the UFC will try to keep him around for a while since Brazil is now a hot spot. But because the UFC brings in the best fighters and doesn't recycle the same has beens. A old Big Nog will never get the belt in the UFC. He is just a name to get other guys over. Hunt is old as hell and one dimensional. Look at the fights he had to be given to win. All strikers to fight and a guy who shouldn't have been in the UFC. If you think he is a top ranked guy then you are letting the UFC making making fool you. I can name 20 guys who would steam roll him.

 

Nog actually was UFC champion. If we talk about age 30 is nothing in HW division almost all HW ar over 30. Like I said look at top 10 only JDS is younger then 30 and he is 29 so you cant play this card here. You talked about new guys who are younger then 30 but at the same time they are loosing to 39 year old 1 dimensional fighter! So where is the logic in that? UFC is making you look like a fool when you think Sonnen is top ranked in 205

[Guest]

my personal GOAT list contains of

 

Anderson Silva

Aldo

GSP

Jones

Fedor

Hendo

Big Nog

fuck it if you pick either one of these i'd be happy

Good list. I wouldn't have Aldo in there. New divisions tend to be weak. Add to that he hasn't been on top that long and I expect him to get beat vs Pettis even though I feel he is being cherry picked by Pettis. I would replace Aldo with Matt Hughes. IMO GSP is just recently passed him for most dominant WW. Hughes had top 5 most dominant career ever. Cleaning out the division and even beating GSP until he started to age. Based on just wins. Hendo has the best resume in the history of the sport bar none!

[Guest]

Nog actually was UFC champion. If we talk about age 30 is nothing in HW division almost all HW ar over 30. Like I said look at top 10 only JDS is younger then 30 and he is 29 so you cant play this card here. You talked about new guys who are younger then 30 but at the same time they are loosing to 39 year old 1 dimensional fighter! So where is the logic in that? UFC is making you look like a fool when you think Sonnen is top ranked in 205

Learn to read! Second, what are the biggest selling divisions in UFC history? HW and LHW. It just so happens those divisions have older fighters. That's because the UFC is never going to cut a fighter who sells tickets and PPVs so a rival can scoop him up and use it. Do you not realize that popular fighters never get released in the UFC? They are never no longer good enough for the UFC. They fight until they get beat so bad and often they no longer want to fight at all. The UFC will never release Frank Mir. No matter how shitty he gets. While in less popular divisions. There is no mega stars who sell. There is no old fighters they have to cling to. So the average age of the division is MUCH lower and the best fighters are younger. Joe Rogan would have you to think the fighters are younger at smaller divisions because speed in more important. That is a lie. Speed is just as important at HW. Every champ has always been quicker and more agile than everyone else. When the smaller guys start to build large fan bases. They UFC will have to keep them around longer than they deserve. Divisions usually follow a process. everyone gradually gets older and older and then they reach a point and have to clean house. This is when the divisions will look like shit with a lot of no name fighters. IMO LW recently under went one of these changes. We went from have a ton of big name guys at Light Weight like Penn, Sherk, Sanchez, Stevenson, Florian, Franca, etc. To Bendo, Edgar, Maynard, Pettis, etc Over night!

[Guest]

Learn to read! Second, what are the biggest selling divisions in UFC history? HW and LHW. It just so happens those divisions have older fighters. That's because the UFC is never going to cut a fighter who sells tickets and PPVs so a rival can scoop him up and use it. Do you not realize that popular fighters never get released in the UFC? They are never no longer good enough for the UFC. They fight until they get beat so bad and often they no longer want to fight at all. The UFC will never release Frank Mir. No matter how shitty he gets. While in less popular divisions. There is no mega stars who sell. There is no old fighters they have to cling to. So the average age of the division is MUCH lower and the best fighters are younger. Joe Rogan would have you to think the fighters are younger at smaller divisions because speed in more important. That is a lie. Speed is just as important at HW. Every champ has always been quicker and more agile than everyone else. When the smaller guys start to build large fan bases. They UFC will have to keep them around longer than they deserve. Divisions usually follow a process. everyone gradually gets older and older and then they reach a point and have to clean house. This is when the divisions will look like shit with a lot of no name fighters. IMO LW recently under went one of these changes. We went from have a ton of big name guys at Light Weight like Penn, Sherk, Sanchez, Stevenson, Florian, Franca, etc. To Bendo, Edgar, Maynard, Pettis, etc Over night!

 

No its not because of that. People just by age get bigger thats why HW division have older fighters and also of course you cant be short thats why HW are tall and big except for Pat Barry but thats a big minuse for him. Also who are these young HW you are talking about? Maybe give some links or say some names who are these young guys who are not let in UFC because you said 3 guys and all they just got KOd by old HW and one of them are even as old as 39.

[Guest]

Vitor was champ by a fluke. But him being in the title fight to begin with wasn't a fluke and was my point. He has always been a threat and a top fighter anywhere he has fought. Do you think Chael would beat Hendo right now? Anyone with a brain would think so. Even when he was ranked #2 recently. Would that win not put him in the top 10 and likely top 5 in just about every major ranking? Of course it would. Since he would likely beat at least half the top 10. Odds are he would be ranked. Again like every fighter it would depend on what fights he was given. If the UFC wanted him to be ranked he clearly would be. IF they didn't then he wouldn't be top 10....I didn't discredit Shogun. I give him credit for the year he made the biggest impact at 205. All his biggest wins were in 2005. 1 year doesn't make a career. I give Fedor credit for being one of the best. But if he wants to be better than everyone else he has to earn it by proving it. Not leaving it up to be decided in internet arguments. He has every chance to set himself apart by who he beat rather than just dragging it out and avoiding a loss. Ironic you say Jones beating blown up 185 fighters doesn't count. But Fedor was the king of doing that and just buying time. While you called him the best ever. Chuck had a great career. The problem when comparing him to Jones is he lost to Rampage and Couture even in his peak. Hard to call him the greatest when Rampage had his number. Cant say Rampage was the best when Wandy had his number as well as Shogun. No one has Jon Jones number thus far and he has more quality wins than any of them and has done it more impressively.

 

i actually never said fedor was the best ever, i said he was in the discussion, dummy. there's no clear answer to who the best ever is, and it's somethign that will change all the time. there's a lot of n00bs like you who werent watching during fedor's reign, and cant quite get the significance of his run. people forget how highly regarded big nog was then...he was viewed as unbeatable at a point. again, this is something that is lost and forgotten over time. if anderson were to lose to weidman...years from now people will hold anderson in lesser regard. theyll say he wasnt really that good and that the competition he fought sucked, it's the name of the game...people tend to have a very revisionist view on things in the past. you do it all the time.

 

also, shogun has way more than just "one year" as you stupidly put it. he beat machida the first time by most peoples accounts, and this was when everyone thought machida was unbeatable. again...we have to look at it from when it happened. then when they fought again, shogun KOed him. so shogun managed to become #1 in two totally different landscapes in the mma world. winning a pride gp title and then a ufc title is a pretty rare accomplishment. but according to you...he only had one good year in his career. genius argument there.

 

 

youre just a fightfinder n00b. beating vitor and chael at 205 in 2012/2013 pretty much means nothing. jones does have some other very impressive wins, but he needs a few mroe to solidify himself as the best LHW of all time, and he definitely needs a few more to be in the discussion of GOAT.

 

as far as talent and fighting ability goes...jones is clearly one of the best ever. he still has little more to prove though, and i'm sure he will prove it.

 

as far as fedor needing to "prove it" as you dumbly put it...he has proved it to many people. of course there's a lot of people who think he needed to come to the ufc and fight cheick kongo to solidify his status, but there will always be doubters.

[Guest]

No its not because of that. People just by age get bigger thats why HW division have older fighters and also of course you cant be short thats why HW are tall and big except for Pat Barry but thats a big minuse for him. Also who are these young HW you are talking about? Maybe give some links or say some names who are these young guys who are not let in UFC because you said 3 guys and all they just got KOd by old HW and one of them are even as old as 39.

What would giving you names prove? You had never heard of Cain until the UFC brought him in. You had never heard of Santos or any other young fighter the UFC brought in and give a chance to. There are tons of prospects out there. If the has beens were to leave the UFC they would be pulled up to take the spot. This is how you find the Jon Jones of the world. You keep counting a fight where Browne got hurt. It doesn't exactly prove your point. It certainly didn't when that same guy was raped by DC and Cain. Also styles make fights. When you give Hunt a mediocre striker who has no wrestling and no chin. There Is a good chance Hunt will catch him. Give hunt Mir, Barnett, DC, Cain, or....Sean McCorkle lmao! There are ways to protect old guys and age doesn't mean styles no longer matter.

[Guest]

What would giving you names prove? You had never heard of Cain until the UFC brought him in. You had never heard of Santos or any other young fighter the UFC brought in and give a chance to. There are tons of prospects out there. If the has beens were to leave the UFC they would be pulled up to take the spot. This is how you find the Jon Jones of the world. You keep counting a fight where Browne got hurt. It doesn't exactly prove your point. It certainly didn't when that same guy was raped by DC and Cain. Also styles make fights. When you give Hunt a mediocre striker who has no wrestling and no chin. There Is a good chance Hunt will catch him. Give hunt Mir, Barnett, DC, Cain, or....Sean McCorkle lmao! There are ways to protect old guys and age doesn't mean styles no longer matter.

 

Of course names will give me something. There are things called prospects and there are a lot of MW WW and others out of UFC who I can name you but not a lof ot HW. Like you said I didnt know about JDS and Cain few years ago so why then UFC got them? Its very easy UFC is getting new guys they just cant win old guys. Like you listed those 3 who had some impact in HW division but they where KOd by old guys and you cant take that away from them. And Struve actually has good ground game.

 

Just googled Browne and he is actually also 30 So bad news for him its over.

[Guest]

i actually never said fedor was the best ever, i said he was in the discussion, dummy. there's no clear answer to who the best ever is, and it's somethign that will change all the time. there's a lot of n00bs like you who werent watching during fedor's reign, and cant quite get the significance of his run. people forget how highly regarded big nog was then...he was viewed as unbeatable at a point. again, this is something that is lost and forgotten over time. if anderson were to lose to weidman...years from now people will hold anderson in lesser regard. theyll say he wasnt really that good and that the competition he fought sucked, it's the name of the game...people tend to have a very revisionist view on things in the past. you do it all the time.

 

also, shogun has way more than just "one year" as you stupidly put it. he beat machida the first time by most peoples accounts, and this was when everyone thought machida was unbeatable. again...we have to look at it from when it happened. then when they fought again, shogun KOed him. so shogun managed to become #1 in two totally different landscapes in the mma world. winning a pride gp title and then a ufc title is a pretty rare accomplishment. but according to you...he only had one good year in his career. genius argument there.

 

 

youre just a fightfinder n00b. beating vitor and chael at 205 in 2012/2013 pretty much means nothing. jones does have some other very impressive wins, but he needs a few mroe to solidify himself as the best LHW of all time, and he definitely needs a few more to be in the discussion of GOAT.

 

as far as talent and fighting ability goes...jones is clearly one of the best ever. he still has little more to prove though, and i'm sure he will prove it.

 

as far as fedor needing to "prove it" as you dumbly put it...he has proved it to many people. of course there's a lot of people who think he needed to come to the ufc and fight cheick kongo to solidify his status, but there will always be doubters.

I watched every pride as it happened and have it on VHS to prove it. Yes Nog was considered the best in the world. Just as those same people expected Heath Herring to smash everyone in the UFC. Those opinions were based on a Pride division that was big on hyping a stale product. It is very memorable when Bas Rutten yells during the broadcast that "Nobody can beat Noguirra" because he beat Bob fucking Sapp. It was these kind of meaningless fights they drove up the hype not real competition. Being a pro wrestling company. They new people like you would fall for the hype regardless of the talent. Like the WCW did with Goldberg. They don't have to have him beat a top guy to make him big when they can let him beat 100 cans in a row and make you feel all warm inside. Every single mismatch and circus fight was created to over hype those fighters. Its marketing 101. Every win raises the perception of his credibility. Every highlight real KO of a bum gets more and more attention building more and more fans and more and more hype. The UFC does this with fighters on loisng streaks to make keep them credibile or in the UFC. Pride did this with all their fighters even the champs because they know how to build larger than like characters. While you sit with your foam finger up your ass yelling "Your #1". Proof of this is when none of the Pride fighters lived up to the hype and your expectations. While you people claiming they all got old at once like they left the fountain of youth or something. Your saving grace is Rampage beat a 40 year old Chuck and Nog beat a 45 year old Couture. But everyone else fell on their ass with gate keeper like consistency and status. Cro Cop, Shogun, Kang, Filho, wandy, etc

[Guest]

Fedor was a champion for 10 years in PRIDE hw division witch had better fighters then UFC division by far. Also the age think first of all HW ussualy are much older then other weight classes. If you look even now at UFC hw diviosion on TOP 10 only JDS is younger then 30 and he is 29. Also you did your calculations little wrong I am look up Fedors recond and he has fought guys younger than 30 and these guys are Renato Sobral, Ricardo Arona, Heath Herring, Semmy Schilt.

 

Fedor defended his belt what, 3 times in those 10 years? And he should've lost the Arona fight (though that was so early in his career it's not really worth considering imo).

 

Fedor is one of my favorite fighters ever and he was great for his time, but never fighting guys like Sergei and Barnett tarnished his 'legacy'. Later on he suffered from the same thing Rampage did: He got too high on his right hand and basically discarded everything else. Both those guys used to be multi-faceted fighters at their respective peaks, but basically degenerated into more refined brawlers when they started knocking people silly standing.

[Erik]

Fedor defended his belt what, 3 times in those 10 years? And he should've lost the Arona fight (though that was so early in his career it's not really worth considering imo).

 

We both know PRIDE managed belts differently, besides, belts are largely irrelevant.

 

Fedor beat Arona quite clearly under the rules of the promotion.

 

 

Fedor is one of my favorite fighters ever and he was great for his time, but never fighting guys like Sergei and Barnett tarnished his 'legacy'.

 

Fedor not fighting 2 guys who never beat quality enough opponents to get the fight (or turned down the fight / pissed hot in the pre fight test) doesn't really hurt his legacy at all, that's like saying Hughes legacy is tarnished because he never fought Parysian or Diaz.

 

 

Later on he suffered from the same thing Rampage did: He got too high on his right hand and basically discarded everything else. Both those guys used to be multi-faceted fighters at their respective peaks, but basically degenerated into more refined brawlers when they started knocking people silly standing.

 

Fedor pretty blatantly stopped giving a shit after the Sylvia fight.

[Guest]

Fedor defended his belt what, 3 times in those 10 years? And he should've lost the Arona fight (though that was so early in his career it's not really worth considering imo).

 

Fedor is one of my favorite fighters ever and he was great for his time, but never fighting guys like Sergei and Barnett tarnished his 'legacy'. Later on he suffered from the same thing Rampage did: He got too high on his right hand and basically discarded everything else. Both those guys used to be multi-faceted fighters at their respective peaks, but basically degenerated into more refined brawlers when they started knocking people silly standing.

 

So if the those fights Jon had wasnt all tittle they would not matter? As far as I know its not the belt that matters but thet fight.

 

And why is Barnett who lost 3 times to Cro Cop and ducked out of the fight with Fedor by using stereoids some have tarnishes his legacy? And Kharitonov? come on.

[Guest]

Fedor defended his belt what, 3 times in those 10 years? And he should've lost the Arona fight (though that was so early in his career it's not really worth considering imo).

 

Fedor is one of my favorite fighters ever and he was great for his time, but never fighting guys like Sergei and Barnett tarnished his 'legacy'. Later on he suffered from the same thing Rampage did: He got too high on his right hand and basically discarded everything else. Both those guys used to be multi-faceted fighters at their respective peaks, but basically degenerated into more refined brawlers when they started knocking people silly standing.

 

barnett was offered the fight on NYE when fedor fought hunt, but barnett didnt want it. barnett had a very busy year that year, so cant blame him. cro cop was also offered the fight that year, but that didnt happen either. in fact the barnett fight was attempted to be arranged several times, but never happened. i wont get into the affliction 3 debacle...

 

i would agree about the latter of his career being tarnished by falling in love with his right hand. against monson and rizzo he showed much better gameplans, but theyre obviously not the best competition either. i still believe he could beat plenty of guys in the ufc even now though. telling me fedor can beat hunt again? nogueira again? i even like him against werdum if he were to fight somewhat intelligently.

[Guest]

I watched every pride as it happened and have it on VHS to prove it. Yes Nog was considered the best in the world. Just as those same people expected Heath Herring to smash everyone in the UFC. Those opinions were based on a Pride division that was big on hyping a stale product. It is very memorable when Bas Rutten yells during the broadcast that "Nobody can beat Noguirra" because he beat Bob fucking Sapp. It was these kind of meaningless fights they drove up the hype not real competition. Being a pro wrestling company. They new people like you would fall for the hype regardless of the talent. Like the WCW did with Goldberg. They don't have to have him beat a top guy to make him big when they can let him beat 100 cans in a row and make you feel all warm inside. Every single mismatch and circus fight was created to over hype those fighters. Its marketing 101. Every win raises the perception of his credibility. Every highlight real KO of a bum gets more and more attention building more and more fans and more and more hype. The UFC does this with fighters on loisng streaks to make keep them credibile or in the UFC. Pride did this with all their fighters even the champs because they know how to build larger than like characters. While you sit with your foam finger up your ass yelling "Your #1". Proof of this is when none of the Pride fighters lived up to the hype and your expectations. While you people claiming they all got old at once like they left the fountain of youth or something. Your saving grace is Rampage beat a 40 year old Chuck and Nog beat a 45 year old Couture. But everyone else fell on their ass with gate keeper like consistency and status. Cro Cop, Shogun, Kang, Filho, wandy, etc

 

take pics of your pride vhs's...i wanna see them, n00b.

 

i dont think everyone expected heath herring to smash everyone in the ufc. it was known before he came to the ufc that his biggest weakness was wresting, and his biggest weapon was taken away in the ufc: knees to a grounded opponent.

 

love how oyu bring up "meaningless fights" when speaking of pride, but you defend chael sonnen against jon jones, and jones against belfort. those are also meaningless fights. it's right out of the pride playbook. signing brock lesnar was right out of the pride playbook. rushing him to a title shot against a 220 pound 48 year old man, coming off a year+ layoff was a pride move. why was this done? to hype of brock of course. why is jones fighting middleweights? you said it yourself...sonnen is popular, and jones would beat him in devastating fashion.

 

love how you bring up chuck's age, but you would defend brock to the death when his fight against couture is brought up. you would defend brock...but try to undermine nog's win over couture, when everyone including YOU was convinced couture woud finish nog, and that nog was some overrated pride can. youre one of the biggest n00bs and ufc fanboys ive ever encountered, and a huge hypocrite.

 

no go write "pride gp 2000" on a vhs so you can pretend youve been watching mma forever. youre a n00b who lives on fightfinder...nothing more.

[Guest]

barnett was offered the fight on NYE when fedor fought hunt, but barnett didnt want it. barnett had a very busy year that year, so cant blame him. cro cop was also offered the fight that year, but that didnt happen either. in fact the barnett fight was attempted to be arranged several times, but never happened. i wont get into the affliction 3 debacle...

 

i would agree about the latter of his career being tarnished by falling in love with his right hand. against monson and rizzo he showed much better gameplans, but theyre obviously not the best competition either. i still believe he could beat plenty of guys in the ufc even now though. telling me fedor can beat hunt again? nogueira again? i even like him against werdum if he were to fight somewhat intelligently.

 

Remember the Barnett fight falling through a couple of times (I got into MMA towards the end of PRIDE though so I'm always interested in hearing more about the non-fight stuff, however), and I don't hold that against Fedor, but it'd look much better if he fought Barnett and Sergei rather than Hong Man Choi and Mark Hunt.

 

Yeah definitely. I think he could beat Bigfoot if he didn't keep trying to land the fastball right hand and nothing else, he did drop Werdum early and just got overconfident, I could see him tire out and end Carwin, Struve and Nelson he'd probably truck etc. Everyone remembers the Hendo KO, but that fight was wild and if he had fought smarter I reckon he could've put Hendo away. He came awfully close while fighting like a spastic.

[Guest]

of course its better than choi. i dont think hunt was that bad of a fight considering the circumstances...he was far from the first choice. it's no different than jds fighting frank mir. guys fall out of fights and you have to find replacements...name of the game. hunt was still considered top 10 at the time, despite his record.

 

out of fedors losses...the only fight i'm least confident about in a rematch is bigfoot. i think with werdum and hendo...he shouldve won both fo them pretty easily, but didnt use his skills. with werdum he easily couldve kept it standing and had his way, and with hendo...hendo has been taken down by much lesser wrestlers before. fedor pretty much fought in the a way that gave hendo his best chance of winning. he brawled with hendo, with was hendo's only really avenue towards victory. if fedor put hendo on his back, fedor easily couldve subbed him or done a lot of damage with ground and pound.

 

i think he fought like an idiot with bigfoot as well, but bigfoot is so big and has some decent ground skills...just a guy you dont want on top of you. i think fedor could definitely win, but it's the toughest matchup imo.

[Guest]

Small digression: I seem to remember Hunt taking Fedor down or at least somehow end up in side control. Did he ragdoll him or did he reverse Fedor? I don't remember.

 

Fedor looked so flustered because Bigfoot kept nailing him with a 1-2 standing all day while he kept trying to clobber him iirc, so if he fought a smarter fight standing I think he'd put Bigfoot away more often than not. Other than that I agree with just about everything you said. Werdum could've been a fun fight now that he's improved his striking too.

[Guest]

Small digression: I seem to remember Hunt taking Fedor down or at least somehow end up in side control. Did he ragdoll him or did he reverse Fedor? I don't remember.

 

Fedor looked so flustered because Bigfoot kept nailing him with a 1-2 standing all day while he kept trying to clobber him iirc, so if he fought a smarter fight standing I think he'd put Bigfoot away more often than not. Other than that I agree with just about everything you said. Werdum could've been a fun fight now that he's improved his striking too.

 

fedor kept trying for judo style throws/trips on hunt, and hunt was able to get on top when fedor couldnt finish them. there was also another time early in the fight when fedor went for an armbar and lost position. hunt never actually really threw fedor down or anything like that. not from what i remember anyway.

[AK47]

listen no one should say anything about hendo vs fedor fight. it was 2 of the best fighters to live going out there to put on an amazing show , just so happened that hendo landed the kill shot first