toejam98 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 lol, all i said was intangibles and physicals should have to be maintained as you get older and now everyone jumps on chin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toejam98 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Well I dont think guys should be able to fight forever, you dont want to see a 45 year old who is just as good as he was when he was 27.... Mike, realisticlly as a guy gets worse, what get worse? Usually intangibles like we saw with chuck liddel (chin) or someones heart maybe as they just don't have the same drive And also physicals.. They lose speed, and strength and cardio etccccc.... I don't see how you would ever lose a skill. MR. Myagi was just as skilled when he was teaching the karate as he was when he was 30 imo if not more, but he was just older so he didnt have the physical ability. (Just a random example) So maybe, have tickers only work towards physicals. But not just age based, just make it harder as you get example. What I mean is, Say your 24, and you start going to the gym your bench max is 150 pounds, you go dedicated for 3 years and get your bench up to 400 pounds. Say you went from Competent to Elite Strength. If you stop benching, its going to drop, however you will never drop back down to 150 pounds, well at least it was take years to fall that low again. So maybe have cap limits. If your 24 and reach elite strength, the worse you can fall too is Exceptional. Now say your fighter is 34, maybe you would put another cap were the max strength he can reach is sensational... etc... So it would be adjustable caps. So as you get older your caps drop as you begin your decline because your just turning into an elder. Secondly, (which i think is alrdy added) Hiddens get worse, as I mentioned with liddel and what not. So I think this is the best way, equations would have to be come up with and random draws and what not to decide just how someone will decline. Some guys will be 50 and still be jacked (Hershall Walker) other will turn into little skinny bitches (Brett Hart), but I think the best way is declining hiddens and physicals, that are based on multiple things as well as adjustable caps that can be put on the skills as a guy gets older. Another Example, Say at 22 If you reach Elite Strength the cap to fall is sensational, at 24 exceptional, at 26 wonderful, at 28 remarkable, at 30 the Max is sensational and you can fall to superb, at 32 max is sensation and you can fall to strong, at 34 max is exceptional and you can fall to proficient etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Well I dont think guys should be able to fight forever, you dont want to see a 45 year old who is just as good as he was when he was 27.... Mike, realisticlly as a guy gets worse, what get worse? Usually intangibles like we saw with chuck liddel (chin) or someones heart maybe as they just don't have the same drive And also physicals.. They lose speed, and strength and cardio etccccc.... I don't see how you would ever lose a skill. MR. Myagi was just as skilled when he was teaching the karate as he was when he was 30 imo if not more, but he was just older so he didnt have the physical ability. (Just a random example) So maybe, have tickers only work towards physicals. But not just age based, just make it harder as you get example. What I mean is, Say your 24, and you start going to the gym your bench max is 150 pounds, you go dedicated for 3 years and get your bench up to 400 pounds. Say you went from Competent to Elite Strength. If you stop benching, its going to drop, however you will never drop back down to 150 pounds, well at least it was take years to fall that low again. So maybe have cap limits. If your 24 and reach elite strength, the worse you can fall too is Exceptional. Now say your fighter is 34, maybe you would put another cap were the max strength he can reach is sensational... etc... So it would be adjustable caps. So as you get older your caps drop as you begin your decline because your just turning into an elder. Secondly, (which i think is alrdy added) Hiddens get worse, as I mentioned with liddel and what not. So I think this is the best way, equations would have to be come up with and random draws and what not to decide just how someone will decline. Some guys will be 50 and still be jacked (Hershall Walker) other will turn into little skinny bitches (Brett Hart), but I think the best way is declining hiddens and physicals, that are based on multiple things as well as adjustable caps that can be put on the skills as a guy gets older. Another Example, Say at 22 If you reach Elite Strength the cap to fall is sensational, at 24 exceptional, at 26 wonderful, at 28 remarkable, at 30 the Max is sensational and you can fall to superb, at 32 max is sensation and you can fall to strong, at 34 max is exceptional and you can fall to proficient etc.. K back on topic, this doesnt solve anything. First of all, if only thing subject to tickers are physicals then eventually the fighters will be training 11 CTs a week just to stop the dropping, while getting to about elite+ lowest physical. If it doesnt work like tickers and is unstoppable, the whine will be endless + it heavily punishes the specialized types of builds, which are currently (or well, were before the TDs buff) a viable strategy. For any sort of "hard caps" liken in the example, you need to solve a) what to do with current fighters, because there are quite aged fighters with elite-- lowest physical and b)what does it change when everyone just stays at the cap - in your example, if at 30 the max is sens then EVERY 30 year old fighter will have exactly 139,999 in every physical, which I dont see as changing anything but rahter making physicals not part of the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toejam98 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Yeah, but not everyone would be the same, could have multiple things factor into deciding the cap for each fighter.. KO's, Injuries etcc I see what you mean tho by everyone just doing CT, but with the caps they would never be able to get to all elite, so even if there 34 so there cap is exceptional and there maxed out, then that could still make the difference in a fight between them and someone younger. This could also lead to other businesses, and also having specific injuries. For example, say your fighter breaks his hand a lot in fights, it wouldnt really effect his physicals, maybe just strength over time. However if your fighter has blown his ACL a couple times, that could effect multiple things, Flexibility, Speed... If your fighter has been injured a lot, you could say that effects his cardio.. So depending on certain factors the caps would be lower and higher, and drop at different rates also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robnaldo Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Hey Mike - Are there going to be any changes to sparring at all? I see in one of your potential changes to come you have: A popup for your fighters on the gym public page to show what level of coach your fighter needs in order to receive the best possible training in each of the training types. I would like to see this for sparring as well. I've read about as much as I can about sparring, and it still confuses the hell out of me. I would really like to know when I am maximizing my sparring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Hey Mike - Are there going to be any changes to sparring at all? I see in one of your potential changes to come you have: A popup for your fighters on the gym public page to show what level of coach your fighter needs in order to receive the best possible training in each of the training types. I would like to see this for sparring as well. I've read about as much as I can about sparring, and it still confuses the hell out of me. I would really like to know when I am maximizing my sparring. Robnaldo: You maximize you sparring when you sparr with fighters that have +20% of your current primary skill level. To get maximized gains thou the sparring partners should also have as high star-rating as possible where 5 star is max Regards /Ztarken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Yeah, but not everyone would be the same, could have multiple things factor into deciding the cap for each fighter.. KO's, Injuries etcc I see what you mean tho by everyone just doing CT, but with the caps they would never be able to get to all elite, so even if there 34 so there cap is exceptional and there maxed out, then that could still make the difference in a fight between them and someone younger. This could also lead to other businesses, and also having specific injuries. For example, say your fighter breaks his hand a lot in fights, it wouldnt really effect his physicals, maybe just strength over time. However if your fighter has blown his ACL a couple times, that could effect multiple things, Flexibility, Speed... If your fighter has been injured a lot, you could say that effects his cardio.. So depending on certain factors the caps would be lower and higher, and drop at different rates also. Hiddens are already easily over 70 % of a fighters actual combat strength, adding any more importance to them is just silly. As I ahve said about the caps, putting the cap on physicals means everybody will have them exactly the same - the cap. Solves nothin, just makes the game less diverse. More businesses..etc - way too complicated to achieve what? Give more importance to hiddens (there are fighters that practically never get injured no matter what)? How does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadDisney Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Hey Mike - Are there going to be any changes to sparring at all? I see in one of your potential changes to come you have: A popup for your fighters on the gym public page to show what level of coach your fighter needs in order to receive the best possible training in each of the training types. I would like to see this for sparring as well. I've read about as much as I can about sparring, and it still confuses the hell out of me. I would really like to know when I am maximizing my sparring. I doubt if you'll ever find out who you're sparring with, or on what level, save for private gym sparring. Shoot me a pm and I'll be happy to explain sparring to you simply and in depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis84 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I see a lot of talk about how to get the current fighters to decline but if you look at a lot of the older fighters more recent records its happening already in the game. The guys who at one time seemed invincible, like Kane, enter their 30's and become mortal. The primaries are still there but they just can't pick up wins as they once did and the losses start to accumulate which tells me people should stop worrying so much about how these fighters stats decline and take heart that even with the double and triple Sens/Elite stats they are not going to be invincible forever just like people in real life aren't. They may dominate the game for a while, like Tonal is currently doing, but I will bet you in a few game years time he will lose his dominace and start picking up losses against the same level fighters he is currently beating for fun yet his stats will be the same or possibly better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 " Maintenance has been changed to be more based on age, so that you don't have to bother with it for longer. I would like to review the whole concept of maintenance at some point in the near future. If people still really don't like it, I'm happy to change the training system to something less time intensive. Hopefully at least for the meantime this will be preferable. Speeding up Lower Level Training Training at a lower level has been sped up fairly significantly and the top level improvements have been slowed down marginally, due to the decreased need for maintenance. " In other words any fighters with ID's between 130K and today, just got SCREWED. - they lose a week per year in training - any one created after them gets faster low level training - and if they are trying to get to exceptional, sensational, elite it now slows down, so all the newer fighters will pretty much catch them in skill points and be a few years younger. GREAT! I really don't see why training is getting so majorly changed again, the system works... maybe a tweak here or there, but really another overhaul? So it sounds like guys will train really fast up to like exceptional? Then it will slow down ever more than it is, so everyone will have exceptional x 4. -and any specialized fighters (or realistic looking as I call it) will be eliminated? Like one giant game of rock/paper/scissors. Screw it then, why even have training. Just give us all 2400 skill points off the bat and call it a day, if everyone is going to look exactly the same in a year anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 They may dominate the game for a while, like Tonal is currently doing, but I will bet you in a few game years time he will lose his dominace and start picking up losses against the same level fighters he is currently beating for fun yet his stats will be the same or possibly better He will lose in two days. They was screw yes, and now they won't be anymore it needed to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 He will lose in two days. They was screw yes, and now they won't be anymore it needed to change. Nothing needed to "change". Faster training and then it stops - and all guys look the same. = FUCKING SUCKS Might as well go back to the training model we had 2 years ago, at least that rewarded patience and teamwork to build a financially sound sytem of private gyms. Now it sounds like any jackass who starts the game tomorrow will have the exact same fighters I do in a couple months, and experience in designing fighters won't even matter because they will shoot right fucking up to whatever the threshold is where things slow down across the board. Sure in the past we had the threat of quad sensational/elite's but at least they were earned- now it's going to be like quad exceptional or whatever and they will be handed out to every noob who stops by and veterans alike. again, if we are just going to shoot right up to some "slow down point" and all fighters are going to end up the same, lets just get rid of training all together- what is the point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I see a lot of talk about how to get the current fighters to decline but if you look at a lot of the older fighters more recent records its happening already in the game. The guys who at one time seemed invincible, like Kane, enter their 30's and become mortal. The primaries are still there but they just can't pick up wins as they once did and the losses start to accumulate which tells me people should stop worrying so much about how these fighters stats decline and take heart that even with the double and triple Sens/Elite stats they are not going to be invincible forever just like people in real life aren't. They may dominate the game for a while, like Tonal is currently doing, but I will bet you in a few game years time he will lose his dominace and start picking up losses against the same level fighters he is currently beating for fun yet his stats will be the same or possibly better Kane is a very very bad example. He was dominating under the old fighting system, because he was making up for mediocre hiddens by great training and sliders. Since the engine changed, hiddens are worlds apart more important and he just cannot cover the lack of them anymore - its not like Sonny has bad sliders, there really is nothing to do when opponent has sufficiently higher confidence + intelligence + ko power compared to your heart + chin. It has nothing to do with age or evolution, the rules of game changed and he simply isnt good enough to be top for the new rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Kane is a very very bad example. He was dominating under the old fighting system, because he was making up for mediocre hiddens by great training and sliders. Since the engine changed, hiddens are worlds apart more important and he just cannot cover the lack of them anymore - its not like Sonny has bad sliders, there really is nothing to do when opponent has sufficiently higher confidence + intelligence + ko power compared to your heart + chin. It has nothing to do with age or evolution, the rules of game changed and he simply isnt good enough to be top for the new rules. and hiddens are about to get even more important if we won't be able to get any sort of training edge and all the fighters old and new alike are logjammed at some even more defined slow down point in skills, (which is quicker to get too... meaning a double whammy on wiping out any diversity among fighters). This is so stupid, I can't even stay on these fucking boards anymore today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 and hiddens are about to get even more important if we won't be able to get any sort of training edge and all the fighters old and new alike are logjammed at some even more defined slow down point in skills, (which is quicker to get too... meaning a double whammy on wiping out any diversity among fighters). This is so stupid, I can't even stay on these fucking boards anymore today. Right now the old (who ever got enough 1v1 old training) just have (a lot) more total skill points than newer fighters so I just fail to see the difference. And there isnt any more space for hiddens to get more important - check Grey and his stable, hes got probably by far the best trained fighters in the game, but they just happened to not roll enough on hiddens so (mostly) they will never be the absolute top (since the change of fighting engine), no matter what he does. Oh and I just fail to see the diversity already - almost all top fighters are triple sens brown belt or better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Might as well go back to the training model we had 2 years ago yeah,i think it was better with the sparring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I haven't sorted out the actual numbers yet Xyel but I would hope that it wouldn't make any difference because you won't have to worry about maintenance, so ultimately with less / no losses, you'll get to the same place. @ztarken, I will see if I can draw a different graph later. "Previously, it was always better to go 1 on 1 with the coach. That's still normally the case but if you can get training with one training partner who is significantly better than you, that's now very marginally the best training possible." I guess "significantly better" should rather be read as 50 points more than 10 points more right? Regards /Ztarken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Is it just me or can we not edit the gym fees since the new changes have come in? Or can you only change them at a certain time of the week? (First time I've tried to change them). It won't let me delete the current fee or edit it at all, tried in Firefox and Chrome. Error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 cant edit gym fees on thursday -- only friday thru tuesday i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Changes haven't gone live yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 cant edit gym fees on thursday -- only friday thru tuesday i think That'll probably be why then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Changes haven't gone live yet. Mike sent a mass mailout to gym owners, a lot of the changes are now live like the morale system and the new coach points system etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 As a gym owner, I'm super excited we're getting a little revamp. The training changes, I dunno, kind of stinks that I got slower training at the lower levels, and now that I'm finally getting close to some sensational secondaries, I'm going to get slowed at the top to lol. That said though, let's just let Mike work it out, I'm sure the changes are going to be for the better in the end, and hopefully a little more complex and exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I don't seem to have a graph of the group sizes changes on the Training Changes Help page. It mentions one in the text but I don't see it. Has it been removed? Can any one paste it here? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Mike sent a mass mailout to gym owners, a lot of the changes are now live like the morale system and the new coach points system etc. I stand corrected. Need to get with our gyms then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.