Timmy Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 If they wanted to kill bad enough they wouldn't have to buy a gun no matter where they lived. They're criminals, all they have to do is steal a gun. This just shows you have no idea how unusual the USA is and that other countries do not have guns everywhere ready to be stolen. I am 47 years old and I have never seen a gun in Britain. Ever. I've never even seen a gun shop (I guess they exist but I've never seen one). I've never seen an armed policeman. Oh there is one exception... I've seen armed police at British arirports... but I wouldn't like to try stealing a gun from those guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 99:1 - or higher - odds you end up in jail first. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenlow73 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Your odds are off I guarantee I can get a gun easily in the UK. Just because you've never see a gun doesn't mean they don't exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I could easily get a gun in Norway as well. Our citizens have fairly easy access to hunting weapons. I couldn't get access to fucking assault rifles and handguns without contacting the mob though. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Your odds are off I guarantee I can get a gun easily in the UK. Just because you've never see a gun doesn't mean they don't exist. You've never been and know shit about UK, its people, its police, its criminality, etc and so forth - but let the rest of us who know stuff inform you: No. No you won't. This isn't to say guns can't be got, it's saying YOU can't get a gun. EDIT: But given that you 'guarantee' it - prove us wrong Never been a better time to visit Ol' Blighty. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Your odds are off I guarantee I can get a gun easily in the UK. Just because you've never see a gun doesn't mean they don't exist. No one said YOU couldn't get a gun. We are talking about the loser/loner/psycho types, not hardcore mobsters like you who are well connected with all the right people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ken could get a gun, he has an abundance of twinkies to trade for one. Besides knowing Ken, he's walk into a kids shop and buy a toy gun. "Ken thats a toy gun" "Yeah but its still a gun" I think he's trolling tbh, he's not this stupid usually... or is he? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 A predator is a predator with or without a firearm. A victim is less a victim and maybe a deterrent with a firearm. Less victims = less crime When the *bad guy* no longer carries them, THEN I will give mine up. Until that time , I will have mine. MOST criminals investigate a target area and will pick one that has NO opposition. look, I am not here to argue with a game admin on this,..you have a nice day. Why have you started talking about crime again? Your point was about people with mental health. I guess we can go round and round and round in circles if you like, in a never ending loop of talking about stuff that's not relevant to the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 No one said YOU couldn't get a gun. We are talking about the loser/loner/psycho types, not hardcore mobsters like you who are well connected with all the right people. This is the point. Kids with mental health problems can't get guns from the criminal underworld anywhere in the world... that includes in the US. You think these guys can get an assault rifle off the US criminal underworld? http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dylan-Storm-Roof-300x290.jpghttp://i.ytimg.com/vi/nwFw0feUpxI/hqdefault.jpghttp://www.acolumbinesite.com/other/weise/weise.jpg here's the awesome checklist you have to pass to buy a gun, according to the guy who sold a gun to Dylan Roof. http://www.wyff4.com/news/local-gun-store-responds-to-dylan-roof-firearm-purchase/34106936 1. are they sober? 2. do they have their wits about them? 3. have they expressed any anger? No? Awesome! Here, have a gun! Hell... why not have a few! And I wanna finish up with one very clear, obvious point. I found this wiki page by searching "recent school shootings USA". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States FORGET FUCKING CRIME FOR FUCKS SAKE.... JUST LOOK AT THIS LIST. Honestly, I don't care what this comes across as. I am sick of being nice about this. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks having easy access to firearms is not 100% responsible for this massive list of shootings and deaths of innocent children, teachers, staff and whoever else died is a fucking knob. As long as people beligerently "reserve your right to bear arms", hundreds and hundreds of innocent people will keep dying. Don't skim over these faces. LOOK AT THEM. They're all dead. They're all dead for one reason and one reason alone. People in the US like having guns and like shooting them for fun. NO OTHER REASON AT ALL. Selfish knobs who like shooting guns for fun, value their own enjoyment over the lives of all these people. As far as I'm concerned, that's a fucking disgrace and an embarrassment to the USA that people are too wet to do anything about it. http://www.geocities.ws/jtrekker/Colum/victims.jpg http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2008/02/15/niu-victimsx.jpg http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/criminalminds/images/b/b9/Weise%27s_victims.jpg 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm just waiting for someone to say none of them would have died if they had a gun themselves 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm just waiting for someone to say none of them would have died if they had a gun themselves I am also waiting for someone to come into this topic, start typing, and provide solid evidence they're fucking brain damaged. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I thought I killed this thread. And now it is back. No one has still had an answer for why the states with the highest ownership rates have the highest murder rates and those without have the lowest. Or why women are 7 times more likely to be murdered by their spouse if there is a gun in the house. Isn't it supposed to keep them safe? Also I was reading recently how well over half the situations where a gun was used to save someone that same gun was used to escalate the situation to the point where they needed saving in the 1st place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanis Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Madness compare Plano texas (highest gun ownership rate) next to Detroit (strictest gun laws in the US) The criminals take over when guns are harder to get. It is a vicious circle.http://res.cloudinary.com/lyxthzsds/image/upload/v1436820209/Detroit_riszlf.png http://res.cloudinary.com/lyxthzsds/image/upload/v1436820222/Plano_jr15wd.png I dont like Guns either, but you cant argue too much with statistics like this. HUGE diff. http://res.cloudinary.com/lyxthzsds/image/upload/v1436821177/us_crime_rates_cnafez.png How ever: The U.K. has some estimated 60,000 stabbings a year and the rates continue to rise. British doctors even called for a banning of long kitchen knives in 2012 to help end the rash of stabbings. Having a pocket knife with a blade over three inches in public has already been banned there since. While the incidence of gun violence in America hovers around 1 in 750 being victimized, in Britain (which doesn’t allow private ownership of guns) their rate of knife related violence is double that. At one instance of knife violence for every 374 people. There were big falls in burglaries, robberies and mobile phone thefts. But the number of crimes involving violence causing injury was up 1.5 per cent. Police said this was due to an increase in domestic violence cases, rather than street violence. There was also a 31 per cent jump in the number of rapes reported in London — 4,170 in the last year, compared to 3,168 over the previous 12 months. Between 2009/10 and 2011/12 there were an estimated 78,000 victims of rape per year in England and Wales - 69,000 females and 9,000 males. Now, by my stance, I hate crime PERIOD ( I dont like to see people hurt, PERIOD) IF London (with NO guns) turned into UTOPIA after giving them up, I would agree with you, but it is apples for oranges as it sits,.. I would rather risk getting shot here, rather than worry about getting raped or stabbed THERE. You are TWICE as likely to be stabbed as I am to be shot. so with all do respect,....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenlow73 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm just waiting for someone to say none of them would have died if they had a gun themselves None of them would have died if they had a gun themselves. There. Are you happy now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Kanis man, why are you incapable of engaging in a discussion and why do you constantly change the topic to something completely irrelevant? Are you scared to discuss it? Let's discuss how having loads of guns in your country, freely available to people who should be nowhere near guns, results in the deaths of school children. Can you do that? Can you manage to discuss that topic directly or are you going to change the subject again, even though you brought up people with mental health issues yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenlow73 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think this thread is the most I've seen Mike post in an unrelated to the game thread since I've been in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanis Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Excuse me but I am comming to the conclusion that with the crime in your area of the world, you have little high horse to sit on, you are pissed about our guns, but you stab each other more than we shoot. check the numbers, I have. but you wont read em anyway Yeah kids getting killed is deplorable, and never ok. but at current numbers kids wont get shot in the UK but they are twice as likely to be stabbed. Once all the knives are gone then they will regress back to smashing people with rocks. Yeah EVERY mass shooter in the last 20 years has had history of mental health issues. hence why I brought it up. I dont want them getting guns, so dont talk to me like I am making the connection. I personally dont think that Assault rifles should be available to the public. What do you say about mass stabbings in China, Just days ago, 10 people armed with knives at a southwestern China train station killed 33 people and wounded another 130 according to The Wall Street Journal. - See more at: http://www.thedailysheeple.com/gun-control-didnt-save-these-people-33-killed-in-chinese-train-station-mass-stabbing_032014#sthash.aqr1jlco.dpuf I am just really PEAVED at the people who cant be trusted with a gun or knife, as they are making the rest of us look bad. A few kill , 40 million do not, do you think the 40 million are wrong ?? You win , admin. I will take this no farther with you. Having an *Admin* debate this with me is not very profesional for either of us. Edited July 14, 2015 by Kanis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Kanis, here is what you are doing.... The UK sells more Lucozade than the US. As far as I know, the Lucozade soft drink isn't sold in America at all. The UK has less instances of cancer than America by person. Therefore, Lucozade cures caner. You make it EASIER to hold a gun in Detroit, you see more shootings. You think guns are THAT important? These dudes are going to be trying to kill each other anyways. It's just significantly harder to do without a gun. You make it IMPOSSIBLE to hold a gun in Plano, you'll see no more shootings. Nothing will change. Plano, Texas doesn't have the poverty, doesn't have the drugs, doesn't have any of the bad shit Detroit has. Guns being legalized don't change poverty, they don't change drug addiction. What I have to ask you Kanis is this; do you believe guns lower the rate of poverty in an area? 99% of crime in these areas like Detroit or even my home of Glasgow only exists because of poverty. It trickles down into everything. A place like Plano isn't a nice place cause they can defend themselves, it's a nice place because they don't have to. If you banned guns in Plano tomorrow, nothing would change. It'd stay the exact same because it isn't a town filled with violent criminals and drug addicts. I dunno man your mind just works in this whole other alternate universe. Look at the roads man. People can get their driving licence piss easy, they go out, drive at 99mph, crash their car and kill several people. Cars are tools for transport, and yet you still can't trust them in the hands of people out there because there are guys who have absolutely NO regard for other's lives and endanger everyone. While you're gonna be like "oh why dont they ban cars?" in a sarcastic way, the difference is that cars aren't weapons. They are transportation. If guns could take me to work in the morning then maybe my opinion might change. But if you can't trust a vehicle in someone's hands, something designed with absolutely no malicious intent, how can you trust people to use a gun safely? The other day my nephew managed to find a kitchen knife under the couch and was playing with it for like 10 seconds before we noticed. That's dangerous as hell, yet how many people face similar things, even much worse, throughout their life times? You REALLY have that much faith in the public that they will be safe gun owners? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Excuse me your highness but I am comming to the conclusion that the crime in your area of the world, you have little high horse to sit on, you are pissed about our guns, but you stab each other more than we shoot. check the numbers, I have. but you wont read em anyway Yeah kids getting killed is deplorable, and never ok. but at current numbers kids wont get shot in the UK but they are twice as likely to be stabbed. Yeah EVERY mass shooter in the last 20 years has had history of mental health issues. hence why I brought it up What do you say about mass stabbings in China with a death toll higher than our mass shootings now this debate has nothing to do with game , I am not disrespecting ANYONE I'm happy to discuss stabbings after we finish up this point. 1. do you accept that if there weren't guns readily available, none of those people from those massacres would be dead? 2. do you still accept that having or not having guns in an area, fundamentally has no impact on the crime rate (you already stated this yourself). Therefore, if there's no impact on crime rates from not having guns and there's the bonus of loads of kids not being dead, why are guns a good thing? There have been like 14 incidences of gun related violence in US schools this year alone. That's one every couple of weeks! Forget how you'd get rid of them, I'm talking ideologically here.... IDEOLOGICALLY, is it not better that a country has no guns at all? Please, at least try and do it without saying "they'd just all get stabbed instead". Honestly, that point is complete nonsense because basically what you're doing is like comparing Compton to a small country village. People get stabbed in the ghetto areas of London / other shady areas of cities in GANG RELATED VIOLENCE. These gun massacres are in Universities and leafy suburb schools. The two things are of absolutely no relevance. Plus, you're acting like you have zero chance of getting stabbed in the US. Damn it... I know all you're going to talk about is knives now I've engaged you in that topic but at least try and answer my initial question, please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanis Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I brought up knives , because it is the weapon that the UK has access to, and they use them , MORE than we use guns. an asshole is going to be an asshole with a gun, knife, car, bus or screwdriver. UK without guns has no gun violence but the rest of your crimes are still happening , hence the knife debaucle. Yea, nobody was shot last year, but now you have 160 people a day getting stabbed. seriously I am done here, I am not selling guns to anyone and I have no children to get hurt in my home. so take your fervor and point it at a criminal. Instead of comming down on me as one. I grew up with a respect for guns and knives, my Dad taught me. I was also trained in the military with firearms. I trust myself with them, even if you do not. If I ever commit a crime with mine, then I will come back to be chastised for it,..until then I hope you guys in the UK can be trusted with plastic spoons, because that is what you are going to have left if you dont start behaving yourselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Plenty of examples have already been posted of Gun related crime, but nearly all of your statistics ignore Gun-Related Crimes specifically. Here's a great statistic for you. Crime Rates in England and Wales during a statistics publication last year shows they fell 15% to it's lowest level in 33 years. Hell, let me go into specifics for ya - 25% fall in Household theft - 15% fall in Vandalism - 10% fall in Car Crime - 7% fall in anti social behaviour - 25% total fall in crime since 07-08, and even more since 1995, with a 60% total reduction since then - There was an increase of 6% in the amount of Shoplifting crimes, but that is relative to the increase in economic hardship across the world. Now that I have listed some of the statistics unrelated to weapons, let's look at the statistics related to them. - 551 murders in England and Wales in 2013, more than a 50% reduction than the 1,047 that occurred from 01-02 (which were the highest rates in the last 33 years) - 12% fall in Robberies - 6% fall in Gun Related Crimes - 4% fall in Knife Related Crimes - 22% fall in Violent Crime Now, I would like to quote something you said about our crimes: I brought up knives , because it is the weapon that the UK has access to, and they use them , MORE than we use guns. an asshole is going to be an asshole with a gun, knife, car, bus or screwdriver. UK without guns has no gun violence but the rest of your crimes are still happening , hence the knife debaucle. Yea, nobody was shot last year, but now you have 160 people a day getting stabbed. If I ever commit a crime with mine, then I will come back to be chastised for it,..until then I hope you guys in the UK can be trusted with plastic spoons, because that is what you are going to have left if you dont start behaving yourselves. I have shown that our crimes are going down, and that is because we actually take action when shit happens. Gun Crimes, Knife Crimes and even all Violent Crimes have been going down, meanwhile mass shootings still occur in the US because sweet FA is being done about them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I brought up knives , because it is the weapon that the UK has access to, and they use them , MORE than we use guns. an asshole is going to be an asshole with a gun, knife, car, bus or screwdriver. UK without guns has no gun violence but the rest of your crimes are still happening , hence the knife debaucle. Yea, nobody was shot last year, but now you have 160 people a day getting stabbed. seriously I am done here, I am not selling guns to anyone and I have no children to get hurt in my home. so take your fervor and point it at a criminal. Instead of comming down on me as one. I grew up with a respect for guns and knives, my Dad taught me. I was also trained in the military with firearms. I trust myself with them, even if you do not. If I ever commit a crime with mine, then I will come back to be chastised for it,..until then I hope you guys in the UK can be trusted with plastic spoons, because that is what you are going to have left if you dont start behaving yourselves. So that's a no then. You can't even address a simple question. Seriously, I'm more than happy to get into a war of words with anyone who thinks it's a good idea for people to have guns in their homes. I'm not going to call anyone a criminal and I'm not going to treat anyone like a criminal but I think having guns in homes is idiotic and I'm more than happy to debate why with people.... that is, if the other person is willing to have a debate. The fact you have respect for guns has nothing to do with anything because whether you should have guns has nothing to with whether people in general should have guns. I could look after a gun perfectly fine. But it they went on sale in a shop near me, some dickhead that shouldn't have a gun will go buy one. That's the point. If you don't wanna debate it that's cool but I don't see why you get to feel like a victim when people call you out for thinking guns are a good idea. As long as toddlers are getting their heads blown off by random stranger weirdos, I'm certainly not going to think they're a good idea. Maybe when / if you have kids, you'll look at those pictures of small, helpless, murdered children a lot differently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I brought up knives , because it is the weapon that the UK has access to, and they use them , MORE than we use guns. an asshole is going to be an asshole with a gun, knife, car, bus or screwdriver. UK without guns has no gun violence but the rest of your crimes are still happening , hence the knife debaucle. Yea, nobody was shot last year, but now you have 160 people a day getting stabbed. seriously I am done here, I am not selling guns to anyone and I have no children to get hurt in my home. so take your fervor and point it at a criminal. Instead of comming down on me as one. I grew up with a respect for guns and knives, my Dad taught me. I was also trained in the military with firearms. I trust myself with them, even if you do not. If I ever commit a crime with mine, then I will come back to be chastised for it,..until then I hope you guys in the UK can be trusted with plastic spoons, because that is what you are going to have left if you dont start behaving yourselves. "160 people a day getting stabbed"? Are you sure about that? I bet that's a figure for "knife crimes", which includes arrest for possesion of a knife in public, verbal threats, etc, etc. A fatal stabbing is NATIONAL front-page news here. It's not something we accept as unavoidable or "normal" as you, apparently, view gun deaths. USA has roughly five times the population of the UK, and thirty times more murders per year. That's six times more murders. Don't try to make out it's just as bad here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 "160 people a day getting stabbed"? Are you sure about that? I bet that's a figure for "knife crimes", which includes arrest for possesion of a knife in public, verbal threats, etc, etc. A fatal stabbing is NATIONAL front-page news here. It's not something we accept as unavoidable or "normal" as you, apparently, view gun deaths. USA has roughly five times the population of the UK, and thirty times more murders per year. That's six times more murders. Don't try to make out it's just as bad here. It's definitely not as bad here, particularly when our crime rates are actually going down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Even if knife crime is bad in the UK, do you really think handing the people going out there stabbing people to death a gun is going to solve things? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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