Alteration to Hype / Pop Calculations

[Eveas]

Separating and nerfing are two completely different things. In this case both are happening when only one needed to. If I am unable to continue with the tournament I am deeply sorry to those who spent VIP to create their fighters. Maybe Mike would be willing to return that VIP time? I can't say, but if it does not go down it would be the right thing to do. I'll try to keep it going, but I cannot make any promises until after our next event when I see how badly we are hit. Given Mikes own numbers it looks like it will be pretty bad.

[Eveas]

Simple fact of the matter is fighters in this QFC should have there hype calculated differently - if the flow on affect from this is all fighters have there hype ranked differently then I say that's a win/win situtaion.. The rankings have been screwed forever this might be the first step in fixing them...

 

Secondly - if money is not the concern with this change and its about people fighting in QFC so they get to fight more often, don't enjoy the training or whatever then who gives a shit what money those fighters are making?? Are you all really going to get bent out of shape that your 25yo QFC fighter isn't earning 40K a fight that he doesn't need? Yeah sure you have planned to have event in certain arenas and promised certain pays - so what the money is irrelevant

There are orgs making $2 mil profits per event. Mine is just breaking even. As I asked earlier I welcome Mike to look the books on my recent events and tell me I am earning too much. For every event that makes $300k there is one right after it that loses $300k. That is with a large number of fighters already refusing pay.

[Guest]

All I see when reading this is that you are taking away my money!

I love the concept of this game, but right away I saw the biggest flaw with a newcomer who might want to come in and compete was extreme wealth.

There is too much of a wealth gap, there are those who sit on tons of money, own private gyms, and have fighter who only have to focus on training. They don't do anything but sit on their money, and as a new player you had just better hope that someone will be kind enough to donate to you (which there are plenty who will do that). I saw the QFC thing as a chance to earn good money without asking for charity.

I understand that fighters have to earn their due. However it's just silly to think that someone can create an account today and make an 18 year old fighter who can compete with someone who has a private gym. At least with having a couple fighters in the QFC you could adequately train your other fighters. If your going to kill the QFC (let's be real, that is what you are doing), then at least put in a rule to help out newbies to the game. Like maybe after a certain amount of time you are only allowed to make older fighters. That would at least give us noobs some time to scrap in minor leagues against even competition and hope that maybe we can develop our fighters to match up with newly created rich boy fighters.

I understand my argument is kind of contradictory because I'm bitching about the economy having too much money, and I'm defending a cash cow organization, but at least a large portion of that money was given back and not hoarded. As far as the rankings are concerned, put them in a different category, how is that hard?

[myronmonroe]

One of the possible unintended consequences here is that ID restricted and newer orgs will have a much harder time making money, and will need to pay their fighters less.

 

With all of their fighters gaining hype/pop much slower, it will become tougher to build your main-eventers up to get good ticket sales. This will actually contract the amount of money being generated in the game. That could be a good thing or a bad thing, we'll just have to see .

[Guest]

What can I say. With the plethora of dumb fucks like yourself on these forums, it's hard not to point out your debilitating retardation. I wouldn't have made that bullshit troll thread to rile up you and the band of idiots if not for your ridiculously inane post in Gable's thread.

 

This game should be sponsored by a line of feminine hygiene products with all the pussies running around here. You're like a bunch of little girls running to Daddy for help all the time.

 

...and the drama continues. If your arguments had a leg to stand on, you wouldn't need to resort to personal attacks and extreme comparisons.

 

I like the comparison that people are making between QFC and amateur orgs. That is how they best fit into the game. It is a good way to get noobs into the action quickly, but eventually, if they want to make money, they will need to turn pro and focus on training.

 

For those QFC org owners who are heavily invested financially into big contracts and tournament prizes, I feel for you. You should have never offered big money to unskilled fighters in the first place, but it wasn't you who created the system. You merely took advantage of it. Fortunately, Mike has already stated that he will make sure that nobody loses their VIP over this, so you don't need to worry about it.

[Stu_Pidasol]

 

There are orgs making $2 mil profits per event. Mine is just breaking even. As I asked earlier I welcome Mike to look the books on my recent events and tell me I am earning too much. For every event that makes $300k there is one right after it that loses $300k. That is with a large number of fighters already refusing pay.

 

And it would be fair to say that those orbs have highly talented, highly hyped fighters on there books.... So again I fail o see the issue with that...

 

Again wasn't the whole point of your org - get more fights, more often on a level playing field without going through the training process??? If so who cares if your holding the event in the 400 seat arena every week... Adjust the pay of he fighters and you don't have an issue...

[Guest]

And it would be fair to say that those orbs have highly talented, highly hyped fighters on there books.... So again I fail o see the issue with that...

 

Again wasn't the whole point of your org - get more fights, more often on a level playing field without going through the training process??? If so who cares if your holding the event in the 400 seat arena every week... Adjust the pay of he fighters and you don't have an issue...

 

Exactly, with no need to train, you should be able to pay the fighters 500/500 without any issue. Since these are unskilled fighters, they don't deserve to be making money like skilled fighters.

 

QFC is basically an amateur circuit that has been earning money like a professional circuit through a loophole in the system. Now that the money is going to be adjusted to reflect their amateur status, I suggest also renaming QFC orgs as Amateur orgs to avoid the confusion with the actual QFC computer-run org.

[Goatacre]

Separating and nerfing are two completely different things. In this case both are happening when only one needed to. If I am unable to continue with the tournament I am deeply sorry to those who spent VIP to create their fighters. Maybe Mike would be willing to return that VIP time? I can't say, but if it does not go down it would be the right thing to do. I'll try to keep it going, but I cannot make any promises until after our next event when I see how badly we are hit. Given Mikes own numbers it looks like it will be pretty bad.

 

I don't understand why you, and others, are still bleating about this. Mike's already given you his word that he won't let this happen and that if you're short then to contact him and he'll smooth it over because the change came so quickly without time to adjust.

[Goatacre]

 

There are orgs making $2 mil profits per event. Mine is just breaking even. As I asked earlier I welcome Mike to look the books on my recent events and tell me I am earning too much. For every event that makes $300k there is one right after it that loses $300k. That is with a large number of fighters already refusing pay.

 

You're not comparing like with like here. Stu's already pointed out the obvious skills difference, but it's not even that which is the most important difference.

 

A major point is that you're running three events a week (based on what I remember you saying previously, I've never looked at your org so haven't checked) whilst these guys are running either one or two per week. As a result you're hit with significantly harder diminishing marginal returns, as you should be.

 

Secondly, because they have fewer events it does allow them to plan a little better with their arena use so that they get the biggest arenas possible more often (enhancing their income - I don't agree with the existence of the mega arenas personally, but that's a different issue).

 

Finally, some of this is due to the combination of the over-inflated pay that you've paid your fighters (you said yourself you were only ever trying to break even) plus since you're transferring pay directly to their manager accounts then you must be incurring a lot of manager transfer charges, which inevitably sucks out a fairly significant amount of money from your org.

[Eveas]

You're not comparing like with like here. Stu's already pointed out the obvious skills difference, but it's not even that which is the most important difference.

 

A major point is that you're running three events a week (based on what I remember you saying previously, I've never looked at your org so haven't checked) whilst these guys are running either one or two per week. As a result you're hit with significantly harder diminishing marginal returns, as you should be.

 

Secondly, because they have fewer events it does allow them to plan a little better with their arena use so that they get the biggest arenas possible more often (enhancing their income - I don't agree with the existence of the mega arenas personally, but that's a different issue).

 

Finally, some of this is due to the combination of the over-inflated pay that you've paid your fighters (you said yourself you were only ever trying to break even) plus since you're transferring pay directly to their manager accounts then you must be incurring a lot of manager transfer charges, which inevitably sucks out a fairly significant amount of money from your org.

I am not saying I need more. But, these guys seem to have a vastly over inflated idea of what my org is bringing in. The only reason I am able to pay fighters well is that I have a strong number of fighters working for free. As a result my fighter pay per event is still lower than the top orgs by quite a bit. They seem to think I am bringing in too much money when in fact I am bringing in way less than your typical org. No one knows the finances of my org like me, so I am not even going to bother trying to explain it. The fact is I am already making nowhere near what those orgs are making yet you guys still seem to think it is still too much. NexusX and Stu are in here claiming I should be in a 400 seat arena relying on all my fighters to work for nothing and making absolutely nothing as the result of all the hours of work put into running a business. Idiotic replies like that show that the people who failed to compete will not be happy until QFC orgs are not nerfed but completely shut down.

[Mentor]

I was kinda hoping the point was to nerf hype gains not kill qfc style.

 

I dont think that QFC's will die. They will still make profits, just nothing as much as the main orgs and they wont have p4p kings in them any more. QFC were never suppose to be the home to top ranking fighters or for the most profitable orgs in the game. They were there to give new managers/fighters a place to fight and test themselves.

[Mentor]

Skill affecting hype might be the dumbest thing yet, Mike. How does that work in reality again? If skill affected hype Kimbo Slice would have never headlined a show on network tv that 6 million people watched.

 

Just separate the rankings and leave hype alone.

 

How many Kimbo Slice type characters you know which are 20y old and 6 million people want to watch? Even he came into MMA with a serious background in street fighting.

[Lockdown]

I think QFC orgs add a much needed diversity to the game.

 

The whole meta game of cutting 18 year olds until you get a super fast learner with other amazing hiddens to boot and training him as a striker with defensive grappling is ridiculous. The game isn't even close to being balanced, I think QFC orgs should of been left alone.

 

Not everybody wants to be a sheep and cook for months and months, taking advantage of a broken system where you can patch up grappling deficiencies by cooking more and more. Look at all the top 10 p4p fighters, they are all virtual clones of one another and take advantage of a broken Anti-Grappling favored system. The path to the top has always been a predictable journey. #1 fighter is a black belt with 0 sub wins and the rest of the top 10 club are the exact same. A new path to the top emerges and the filthy rich slow cookers are up in arms. It would be completely different story if Eveas was hording the money but he spreads it and is a heaven sent in terms of the dying growth of the game which nobody gives 2 shits about anymore. I see no difference between QFC fighters and orgs that take advantage of frequent hype gain than all the anti grappling sheep out there who take advantage of and abuse a broken system. A new and quick path to the top is a good thing for the game, and it has been handled appropriately by Eveas. Anybody with a problem with QFC hype is simply selfish. Oh well, more skill = more hype now so cook on brothers!!

[Mentor]

All I see when reading this is that you are taking away my money!

I love the concept of this game, but right away I saw the biggest flaw with a newcomer who might want to come in and compete was extreme wealth.

There is too much of a wealth gap, there are those who sit on tons of money, own private gyms, and have fighter who only have to focus on training. They don't do anything but sit on their money, and as a new player you had just better hope that someone will be kind enough to donate to you (which there are plenty who will do that).

 

Welcome to life. That is how life basically is. You have people which have earned a crap load of money (one way or other) and others which complain that they dont have any and end up asking for a job, begging or going out there to change something. Most do the latter 2 though. QFC's were NEVER intended to replace the core game, they were never suppose to compete with the major orgs in hype or in financial terms. Noob fighters competing in these orgs were never suppose to get rich fighting other orgs.

 

How it stands now, the QFC's are going against the core of the game, it is almost as if they are part of a different game. In fact i would go further and say they deserve to get completely removed or given a different server all together. What Mike is doing is giving them a chance to exist, still make money and still give new people a chance to fight more regularly. In a way they are basically your "regional" scene. Nobody really should care about the fighters which fight there, unless they decide to move along to where the "big boys" fight.

[Stu_Pidasol]

I am not saying I need more. But, these guys seem to have a vastly over inflated idea of what my org is bringing in. The only reason I am able to pay fighters well is that I have a strong number of fighters working for free. As a result my fighter pay per event is still lower than the top orgs by quite a bit. They seem to think I am bringing in too much money when in fact I am bringing in way less than your typical org. No one knows the finances of my org like me, so I am not even going to bother trying to explain it. The fact is I am already making nowhere near what those orgs are making yet you guys still seem to think it is still too much. NexusX and Stu are in here claiming I should be in a 400 seat arena relying on all my fighters to work for nothing and making absolutely nothing as the result of all the hours of work put into running a business. Idiotic replies like that show that the people who failed to compete will not be happy until QFC orgs are not nerfed but completely shut down.

 

I couldn't give a shit how much money you bring in... I do give a shit about some 25yo creation that turns the games fucked ranking system into even more of a joke...

 

The 400 seat arena was an extreme suggestion but the basic premise is that you will need to adjust fighter pays to fit in line with what these fighters are worth and that also means holding events in arenas that are suitable for these fighters.. Other than that nothing changes.

[Guest]

when a fight ends by Decision with 100% Fight rating - why the loser of the fight still loses his popularity and Hype? I think that in this case Loser's popularity shouldn't go down. When an equal fight ends as SPLIT decision loser's popularity again goes down - why? this is unfair.

I think that loser of 100% fight that have a decision end should retain his popularity, and if it's Split Decision - hype should be retained too!

[Guest]

So.... HWP's 3 year hype farming pyramid where he now fights himself with his hyped guys on every card is ok.... the hundreds of phillipino accounts doing shady shit for the last 2 years is ok.... but QFC orgs are taking things too far?

[Grasman]

So.... HWP's 3 year hype farming pyramid where he now fights himself with his hyped guys on every card is ok.... the hundreds of phillipino accounts doing shady shit for the last 2 years is ok.... but QFC orgs are taking things too far?

I could care less how much money they are making,,,, money is dud in this game anyway.

 

But, when an untrained fighter gets to high p4p ranking,, that's simly no good.

 

Relegate this Qfc stuff into the amateurs and keep them seperate, just like KT.

 

There was this boxer once, named Audley Harrison.... He won silver or gold at the olympics HW amateur boxing.

He got some hype handed to him on a plate, got a million dollar contract from the BBC,, good spons etc...

BECAUSE HE WAS TURNING PRO!

 

So, he huffed and he puffed himself up,, how he was going to become Pro HW Champ...... in no time....

 

Today, he's more known as Fraudly Harrison, a well known Pro HW Chump...

Now,, i'm not saying he couldn't box his way out of a paper bag,, but he folds as soon as he's up against ANYONE....

 

The bottom line,,, untrained QFC fighters are AMATEURS, who have no business puffin their chest up against the big Pro's, fighting OR ranking wise...

 

Hence,, this shit should be kept completely seperate as it represents seperate things, while still being a cool thing to have in the game.

[Umberts]

Im not PHILIPINO!

[Eveas]

Hence,, this shit should be kept completely seperate as it represents seperate things, while still being a cool thing to have in the game.

I agree with this statement, but with this change it is not going to be a cool thing to have in the game. This will completely shut it down.

[JLP]

There are orgs making $2 mil profits per event. Mine is just breaking even. As I asked earlier I welcome Mike to look the books on my recent events and tell me I am earning too much. For every event that makes $300k there is one right after it that loses $300k. That is with a large number of fighters already refusing pay.

I am not saying I need more. But, these guys seem to have a vastly over inflated idea of what my org is bringing in. The only reason I am able to pay fighters well is that I have a strong number of fighters working for free. As a result my fighter pay per event is still lower than the top orgs by quite a bit. They seem to think I am bringing in too much money when in fact I am bringing in way less than your typical org. No one knows the finances of my org like me, so I am not even going to bother trying to explain it. The fact is I am already making nowhere near what those orgs are making yet you guys still seem to think it is still too much.

Awwwwwwwww, too bad. It's going to be harder to sucker in noobs to get smashed for 5k now. That's the real reason QFC's will disappear. No more money to sucker in the noobs to be the bottom level of the hype pyramid. Why else would veteran managers fight for free other than because they knew they needed to leave you with as much money as possible to keep bringing in new managers they could smash.

 

NexusX and Stu are in here claiming I should be in a 400 seat arena relying on all my fighters to work for nothing and making absolutely nothing as the result of all the hours of work put into running a business. Idiotic replies like that show that the people who failed to compete will not be happy until QFC orgs are not nerfed but completely shut down.

Hilarious because QFC orgs are dominated by managers who couldn't compete in the main game. You guys found a way to segregate yourselves from the rest of the community and then created a hype pyramid leading to some of the worst managers in the game at the top.

Eveas, when you look back at your failure make sure you understand how you and "Nehi" being dicks and insulting the 99% of the game that thinks QFC orgs are ridiculous doomed your hype pyramid. Your exploit is over, stop crying about it already. Because of your value as a useful idiot, maybe zyd will let you in on his next exploit.

[Grasman]

I agree with this statement, but with this change it is not going to be a cool thing to have in the game. This will completely shut it down.

Why?

Aren't the managers participating in this, doing it for the "slider skill thrill"?

Being the best at that or something?

 

What do they need all this money for anyway,,, they don't train, right?

Now, if you don't train, you don't pay gym fees nor do you need supps.

So, the only cost involved for these fighters is chlothes,, and chlothes you can get for nickels and dimes these days.

 

So, what's the beef with money being less? (not that i care either way)

 

Amateur fighters shouldn't really be cashcows for other pro fighters, nor their managers,,, it goes against the principle really.

[Guest]

NexusX and Stu are in here claiming I should be in a 400 seat arena relying on all my fighters to work for nothing and making absolutely nothing as the result of all the hours of work put into running a business. Idiotic replies like that show that the people who failed to compete will not be happy until QFC orgs are not nerfed but completely shut down.

 

It isn't idiotic. Unskilled amateur fighters DO fight for nothing. That is the reality of amateur fighting. There is nothing wrong with you providing a service to the community and giving them a place to have amateur fights, but it shouldn't be a place to build hype or make money. You, as the org owner, can make a profit if you like. The fighters in the org, not so much. If money is what the managers want, they should have their fighters turn pro and start training.

 

Having guys not train at all, yet make boatloads of money is completely unrealistic and would never happen in real life.

 

I have never advocated for killing QFC. I think it is a great way to get noobs hooked on the game. I have, however, suggested limiting it so that people treat it the way it should be treated: as a fun sideshow for amateur fighters. It should never be used as a way to make quick money because that is the exact opposite of how amateur orgs would work in real life.

[Nehi]

Awwwwwwwww, too bad. It's going to be harder to sucker in noobs to get smashed for 5k now. That's the real reason QFC's will disappear. No more money to sucker in the noobs to be the bottom level of the hype pyramid. Why else would veteran managers fight for free other than because they knew they needed to leave you with as much money as possible to keep bringing in new managers they could smash.

 

 

Hilarious because QFC orgs are dominated by managers who couldn't compete in the main game. You guys found a way to segregate yourselves from the rest of the community and then created a hype pyramid leading to some of the worst managers in the game at the top.

Eveas, when you look back at your failure make sure you understand how you and "Nehi" being dicks and insulting the 99% of the game that thinks QFC orgs are ridiculous doomed your hype pyramid. Your exploit is over, stop crying about it already. Because of your value as a useful idiot, maybe zyd will let you in on his next exploit.

 

It's a constant stream of diarrhea every time you post on these forums. You just spread you cheeks and let it rip, fuck facts just make up your own shitty narrative. You and a small group of managers have a problem with QFC because of a fighter hitting the top 10. Nothing more. It's just a lot of butthurt over some make believe numbers on the internet. You're either incredibly fucking stupid or just trolling. You know as well as we do that no one was being exploited. Eveas was HELPING new managers, not shitting on them. We fought for free so that he could pay more money to new managers, we know that they need the money for training, we don't. No one was being exploited. No new managers were being crushed by anyone, you're just talking out of your ass as usual.

[Guest]

It's a constant stream of diarrhea every time you post on these forums. You just spread you cheeks and let it rip, fuck facts just make up your own shitty narrative. You and a small group of managers have a problem with QFC because of a fighter hitting the top 10. Nothing more. It's just a lot of butthurt over some make believe numbers on the internet. You're either incredibly fucking stupid or just trolling. You know as well as we do that no one was being exploited. Eveas was HELPING new managers, not shitting on them. We fought for free so that he could pay more money to new managers, we know that they need the money for training, we don't. No one was being exploited. No new managers were being crushed by anyone, you're just talking out of your ass as usual.

 

I have no idea about whether or not there was a sinister plan to steal hype. My guess is that this is an exaggeration. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt so I will assume that both Eveas and Nehi were legitimately trying to help out new managers. However, their best intentions uncovered a loophole that created a highly unrealistic scenario. Untrained fighters were creating money faster than trained fighters with similar IDs. New managers discovered that it was a way to print money and take a shortcut to bypass the hard work that it is supposed to take to build a manager account.

 

Mike is now closing that loophole so that QFC orgs will function as intended. They will be a nice place for new managers to figure out sliders and get in a few fights while waiting for their other fighters to develop. This is what is best for the long term health of the game.

 

Instead of JLP accusing them of cheating, then having Nehi answer back with his typical overdramatized responses, why don't we all just avoid personal attacks. I'm sure everyone just wants what they think is best for the game.