True kickboxing rules.

[ChronicCrush]

"In GLORY, fighters are allowed to tie up for approximately three seconds, giving enough time to off-balance an opponent and deliver a technique without slowing the action which GLORY fights are famous for."

 

"K1 Forbidden Fighting Techniques:
1) Clinching opponent with 2 hands"

 

Clinch fighters are ruining KT for noobs and pros alike. Clinching isn't allowed in real kickboxing matches, so why do we get held against the cage and elbowed to a cut TKO so often in them? Takes a lot away from the experience of a STANDUP fight when you're stuck in the clinch the entire time.

 

Yes I just lost a fight this way, yes I'm a little pissed, but this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I've always wondered why clinching is allowed in KT when there isn't an organization around that allows it. A fighter should be able to play and survive in KT with useless wrestling or it's not truly kickboxing, it's still partial MMA, am I wrong?

 

I didn't put this is in the improvements because I'm not asking for it to be changed, just wanted to stir up the conversation and hopefully get a few people who agree that the ref should constantly separate like in real life. If the community supports it, we can repost it in improvements.

 

Edit: With the new clinchbreak tickbox, maybe this is really the responsibility of the org owners now to stipulate that clinch breaking must be allowed in the match to keep the action going. I'll give 50k and all of my KT fighters to your org if you do this.

[rac2]

Is this a glory only rule or a general kickboxing consensus?

[ChronicCrush]

It's both glory and K1 that only allows 1 or 2 strikes from the clinch before separating. Like I said, I'll sign all of my fighters and give 50k to anyone who wants to run the org that requires the "allow break clinch" box to be checked.

 

Edit: Glory rules were recently adopted by the world kickboxing association as the unified ruleset.

[Showdown]

I think MMA Tycoon KT rules are more like Muay Thai rules.

 

I lost the Steel Penn Xtreme K1 SHW Tournament to a clincher in the finals but I don't mind it.

 

I would like to see rules for both ways, honestly. I like both.

[Skap]

The PKA allowed it and they had Bill Wallace, Joe Louis and Chuck Norris fighting for their org.with no complaints. Also Clinch is a big part of Muay Thai which is a better standup system then just Kickboxing by far. Try setting your Headbutt slider to 90% Krakaskul if your getting raped, that should break the clinch.

[Scooby]

The thing is, with those rules, fighters will be down to only punches/kicks/striking d and boxing + MT not much variation in skills or strategies, wont that take strategy out of the game?

[ChronicCrush]

I don't think it will take strategy out of the game, if someone clinches up and throws a single sensational+ knee and separates, there is still a lot of damage that can be done. Like I said though... This doesn't even need to go in improvements. We just need one org willing to change the game and require "allow separation" in all of their matches. Just one!

[Mr.J]

nope i like the clinch part.i don't need just kicks & punches.

[ArtieBanks]

Me and Mannetosen spoke about this actually not to long ago. In K-1 they used to allow it until Overeem came in and started destroying people in the clinch. It was changed because no one could hang with Overeems size, power or skill in the clinch and left a lot of K-1's top guys pretty much at the mercy of him. Clinching is a part of Muay Thai, which btw your rules do not factor in the kick boxing events other than K-1 and Glory, many kickboxing and muay thai fights allow for the clinch with both hands to allow knees and dirty boxing.

 

 

You still are allowed to clinch in K-1, it has to be a half clinch though with only one hand permitted behind the opponents neck (Don Frye vs Tankyama style)

[VeikkoK]

It would be really hard to allow only short clinches, so it would be no clinching at all. Then there's so little skills to develop that I'm not sure it's worth it. Take kicks out too and have a boxing org? That (and pure wrestling matches?) could be nice for new fighters before developing more well rounded skills.

[THT]

It's both glory and K1 that only allows 1 or 2 strikes from the clinch before separating. Like I said, I'll sign all of my fighters and give 50k to anyone who wants to run the org that requires the "allow break clinch" box to be checked.

 

Edit: Glory rules were recently adopted by the world kickboxing association as the unified ruleset.

 

Glory allows you to clinch for anything up to 5 seconds and throw multiple knees at your opponent in that time

 

"· A fighter may clinch in order to immediately attack with a legal knee strike (or strikes). If the knee attack and/or counter attack by the opponent is continuous and productive the referee may allow it to continue for in his estimation up to five seconds; otherwise the fighters should disengage the clinch and continue to fight.

· If a fighter clinches and fails to immediately attack with a legal knee strike the referee shall “break” the fighters, and may caution, warn or penalize the offending athlete." SOURCE

K-1 has the single knee half clinch rule as mentioned before due to Overeem smashing most but more importantly when he smashed the living bejesus out of Fujita - who has taken plenty of damage before (The life of Fukita's skull), but not the kind that Overeem gave him ---> FULL FIGHT

These organisations are considered to be Pro Kickboxing in their styles though. They do not allow elbows and as such they are not Muay Thai which as we all know allows unlimited clinch and the signature elbow strikes.

Western Kickboxing or Full Contact doesn't allow leg kicks and should all be waist high with no clinch.

The current set up is obviously MT and as such should include the clinch, maybe this is a question for the algorithm for damage dealt and the way that it is distributed? IMO its fine as it is.

[Guest]

I think the strategy part would be pretty limited without the clinchgame. Id rather see some noob KT orgs. Where its possible to get fights against guys who isnt elite/ elite in boxing and MT

[gwad12345]

I'm in favor of keeping K1 the way it is, without clinching the strategy aspect gets reduced by half..

[thb]

I'm in favor of keeping K1 the way it is, without clinching the strategy aspect gets reduced by half..

 

exactly strategy wise this would be a dumb move, unless you add elbows and knees outside the clinch this doesn't seem like a good idea

[ChronicCrush]

I think a lot of people misunderstand. I don't think clinching should be removed from the KT ruleset completely. I'd just like to see more frequent separations so it doesn't become a wrestling match. With good knees and elbows you can still do a lot of damage inside of 10-30 seconds without holding your opponent against the ropes too long... similar to what we see in modern kickboxing fights. And with enough skill you can re-engage and smash them again. Not a lot of getting double underhooks and holding on until the round is over in Kickboxing. Also,wiith more separations, I would say it requires more strategy since you couldn't rely solely on one area. But if both guys allow clinchbreaks it would have the same result without engine changes.

[THT]

I think a lot of people misunderstand. I don't think clinching should be removed from the KT ruleset completely. I'd just like to see more frequent separations so it doesn't become a wrestling match. With good knees and elbows you can still do a lot of damage inside of 10-30 seconds without holding your opponent against the ropes too long... similar to what we see in modern kickboxing fights. And with enough skill you can re-engage and smash them again. Not a lot of getting double underhooks and holding on until the round is over in Kickboxing. Also,wiith more separations, I would say it requires more strategy since you couldn't rely solely on one area. But if both guys allow clinchbreaks it would have the same result without engine changes.

 

This makes a lot more sense to me, I agree, more breaks in clinch rather than some guys just laying against the side of the cage doing sod all, even in Muay Thai they will break the clinch if there is not enough work.

 

I also agree based on this arguement that the only fix is for fighters to have to be more active in the clinch in stand up bouts but that clinch should still be allowed.

[ArtieBanks]

I think a lot of people misunderstand. I don't think clinching should be removed from the KT ruleset completely. I'd just like to see more frequent separations so it doesn't become a wrestling match. With good knees and elbows you can still do a lot of damage inside of 10-30 seconds without holding your opponent against the ropes too long... similar to what we see in modern kickboxing fights. And with enough skill you can re-engage and smash them again. Not a lot of getting double underhooks and holding on until the round is over in Kickboxing. Also,wiith more separations, I would say it requires more strategy since you couldn't rely solely on one area. But if both guys allow clinchbreaks it would have the same result without engine changes.

 

 

All that is flavor text, it has nothing to do with what is actually happening. I have seen K-1 fights where the guy is pretty much clinched for a full round. It is already easy enough to separate from the clinch as you can see by your fight. Just do the honorable thing and train the clinch, you don't need knees/elbows to be good in the clinch.

[RodrigoMachado]

A rule of maximum 30 or 60 consecutive seconds in clinch would make fights more aggressive and dynamic, I think.

[THT]

 

 

All that is flavor text, it has nothing to do with what is actually happening. I have seen K-1 fights where the guy is pretty much clinched for a full round. It is already easy enough to separate from the clinch as you can see by your fight. Just do the honorable thing and train the clinch, you don't need knees/elbows to be good in the clinch.

 

In which case maybe the flavour text could be changed for stand up?

[ArtieBanks]

 

In which case maybe the flavour text could be changed for stand up?

 

That is for stand up but MMA wise, i am sure Mike could implement something along the lines of *he moves from single collar to full thai clinch etc instead of double underhooks but all it means is your fighter is controlling successfully in the clinch.

[RazorMuayThai]

Half of Glorys fighters come from Muay Thai and half of them clinch a lot during fights! I allowing clinching in my KT org to offer variation and also to open my org up to more fighters which is hard for a KT org as it is and I won't be changing this!

[Scooby]

Half of Glorys fighters come from Muay Thai and half of them clinch a lot during fights! I allowing clinching in my KT org to offer variation and also to open my org up to more fighters which is hard for a KT org as it is and I won't be changing this!

Tobin prays you never change that lol

[wilflet]

as has already been said if clinch becomes useless for damage then strategy could become very limited.

 

What Id also worry about is people using a tactic I have seen in MMA fights of clinching and breaking repeatedly- almost nothing happens in the fight but they get scored on control, and its crap for the org because its a boring fight. the only way to avoid it is to train clinchwork, and if your going to do that you might aswell keep clinch as it is.

*for the sake of disclosure it was me that beat bobbys guy, so Im obviously biased for keeping it as it is. But I actually feel disappointed when he stops someone with cuts rather than with proper knockouts (then again I think its safe to say everyone he faces has chin hidden ticked so its not suprising the skin often gives up before the chin). So I'll happily rematch you at somepoint - see if I can finnish you properly

[Guest]

I agree i have a few k1 fighters and it sucks when there stuck in the clinch for a whole round

[Scooby]

as has already been said if clinch becomes useless for damage then strategy could become very limited.

 

What Id also worry about is people using a tactic I have seen in MMA fights of clinching and breaking repeatedly- almost nothing happens in the fight but they get scored on control, and its crap for the org because its a boring fight. the only way to avoid it is to train clinchwork, and if your going to do that you might aswell keep clinch as it is.

 

*for the sake of disclosure it was me that beat bobbys guy, so Im obviously biased for keeping it as it is. But I actually feel disappointed when he stops someone with cuts rather than with proper knockouts (then again I think its safe to say everyone he faces has chin hidden ticked so its not suprising the skin often gives up before the chin). So I'll happily rematch you at somepoint - see if I can finnish you properly

 

It takes a lot of work to get your clinch skills up and even more to use it, so our answer is to nerf that skill because some people manipulate it by going in and out of it repeatedly, screw the people who actually come up with a non glitch strategy and spend months building their fighters because a few cheaters. I dont think thats the answer, also, to win a round you have to land 3x more strikes in the clinch than an opponent standing up, there was a thread about this before showing 50+ more strikes that didnt amount to rounds on the scorecards. + From my experience a failed clinch usually leads to a strong striking counter, i think its all a matter of strategy