Mentor Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Drawing conclusions about who is actually better from 1 fight is pointless though. No it is not. It is not as if we are going to sit here and have them fight 5-6 times. I mean all the top fighters will eventually beat each other if you keep on spamming fights. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Womba is an all-time great for sure, but the GOAT debate is now over. I mean step back and really think about what just happened here. Tonal took seven in game years off. During that time he was training in a gym that was not his own and did not have ViP, so he had no idea what was popping or depopping at all. Yeah I did the sliders because Deamus didnt know the engine, but that was no close decision, it was brutality. Tonal was away for seven years, had non optimal training, was woken up because people were saying there was some debate as to who the GOAT was and just absolutely decimated the opponent and debate. It's not an insult to Womba to say Tonal is the GOAT, its just fact. Womba IS still one of the greatest and that will never change. I do love to be right, here is something I posted in our alliance chat when the fight first came about: Johnny Lee [JLP] [2014-03-25 13:59:42] LT was trying to pitch that fight to me too. It's a lose lose proposition imo. I'm pretty sure LT has access to that account and will be setting the sliders. So Kelly didnt even know which manager she was setting sliders against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 LT has no access to my account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 LT has no access to my account. He just said he set your sliders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I asked him what I should do, he did not actually set the sliders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 He just said he set your sliders. You're better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 You're better than that. I'm just going off what he said and the gut feeling I got when LT approached me about a Bennet/Tonal fight in chat. The post has been edited from "Yeah I did the sliders" to "Yeah I advised on the sliders." That's not really going to change my mind though. It's not a big deal really. I'd like to see a re-match, but I doubt any of the managers involved are interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Figured it would either be a clinch win for Tonal or a sub for Womba. Drawing conclusions about who is actually better from 1 fight is pointless though. I couldn't agree more. Don't want to take anything away from Tonal, he is a beast and is probably the GOAT but I don't see how you can base that off 1 fight. Tonal being away for 7 yrs means he also hasn't had to fight under this new engine which favors ground guys on a consistent basis at a high level. Anybody can win 1 fight and really I think Tonal had nothing to lose. Not knowing Kelly was considering retirement it's why I didn't really understand Womba taking this fight. If Womba had won, would ppl really have rushed to the forums to claim him the GOAT? I highly doubt that! Everyone would've talked about the 7 yrs and the new engine and how Deamus doesn't even really play anymore. Ppl would've just assumed it was due to decline. Womba wouldn't have gained GOAT status in the majority of people's eyes winning this fight. Tonal was always a guy who was a hiddens beast, and in a 1 off where he had nothing to lose I am honestly shocked more people didn't see this coming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I couldn't agree more. Don't want to take anything away from Tonal, he is a beast and is probably the GOAT but I don't see how you can base that off 1 fight. Tonal being away for 7 yrs means he also hasn't had to fight under this new engine which favors ground guys on a consistent basis at a high level. Anybody can win 1 fight and really I think Tonal had nothing to lose. Not knowing Kelly was considering retirement it's why I didn't really understand Womba taking this fight. If Womba had won, would ppl really have rushed to the forums to claim him the GOAT? I highly doubt that! Everyone would've talked about the 7 yrs and the new engine and how Deamus doesn't even really play anymore. Ppl would've just assumed it was due to decline. Womba wouldn't have gained GOAT status in the majority of people's eyes winning this fight. Tonal was always a guy who was a hiddens beast, and in a 1 off where he had nothing to lose I am honestly shocked more people didn't see this coming. Personally i would have said she took the GOAT status from Tonal. You would get those who disagree, the same as people who disagree the now about it. As far as people telling Deamus what sliders to use etc, yeah people did, i told Lance and him all about Womba. Its not like people don't share slider tips with friends and alliance mates... shit they are alliances with forums that they share their sliders with print screens n shit. So trying to discredit Tonal's win because Deamus got slider advice from other people is pretty much useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Personally i would have said she took the GOAT status from Tonal. You would get those who disagree, the same as people who disagree the now about it. As far as people telling Deamus what sliders to use etc, yeah people did, i told Lance and him all about Womba. Its not like people don't share slider tips with friends and alliance mates... shit they are alliances with forums that they share their sliders with print screens n shit. So trying to discredit Tonal's win because Deamus got slider advice from other people is pretty much useless. I honestly don't doubt that you would've considered Womba the GOAT if he won. I'm pretty sure that was the basis of you making this fight happen in the 1st place correct? I don't think the MAJORITY of ppl would've looked at it like that though. Even a lot of the pre-fight predictions were taking Womba for all the reasons I listed already. If Womba had won that fight it just would've confirmed the belief for most of them that Tonal really never stood much of a chance anyway and therefore how could they really consider Womba the GOAT for winning a fight many thought he SHOULD win? I personally consider Tonal the GOAT and it has nothing to do w/ the fight that took place. Many of the critics of Womba's GOAT status like to use the engine as the reason why. I think that is the most ludacris argument to be quite honest. For years this engine was so heavily skewed towards strikers it was really kinda sad. Most of us just accepted the engine for what it was but that doesn't mean it was a good engine. This is MMA tycoon, not Kickboxing tycoon and realistically wrestlers probably dominate the sport....so the fact it was so heavily favored towards strikers was kinda silly tbh. I think the thing that drew a lot of guys to Tonal was the fact that he was really one of the 1st guys who used the ground successfully at such a high and consistent level. Not that he was a ground fighter exactly but he was certainly well-rounded and used his wrestling. Not many that I can remember had success like that w/ the ground at that high of a level and was what I found so interesting about him. Because Tonal was such a successful wrestler in a time that the game was owned by strikers and Womba's success came more when the engine changed to suit wrestlers is why I give the edge to Tonal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 BTW I don't think Tonal would've used that excuse obviously. Deamus is far too classy of a guy and even felt the need to credit LT for helping w/ sliders in the fight. So clearly he wouldn't have come out w/ excuses had he lost. I see no problem w/ LT or anybody giving advice to him because sliders are often shared between friends/alliances. Hell I tell my sliders to the chat on a daily basis really (not so much recently since i been gone). I expected he would talk to you guys about the fight and knowing that Ryo has beaten Womba before and you would have an idea on how to beat him, combined w/ the chin/power i know Tonal has is 1 of the reasons I was so convinced he would win the fight once i found out he hadn't declined too terribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potter09 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Tonal own that fight fair and square there's no question about it. Does nt matter what manager set the sliders. If there was to be a rematch womba could sub tonal who knows. Womba has been KO ed 4-5 times then he went on a crazy run and became no 1 p4p it's only 1 fight he's lost. Unfortunately I don't believe that there will be a rematch. Very entertaining never less would love to see tonal make a run for no 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 The fighter/manager changes graph looks like something straight out of HWP guys org Why the hell would Womba even take this fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potter09 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 The fighter/manager changes graph looks like something straight out of HWP guys org Why the hell would Womba even take this fight To prove he was the GOAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludovik Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Crazy fight. Interesting aspect brought by the org. Womba still one of the greatest and the loss only fuels the need for the fans to see a rematch. As Scott said, Womba has been KO'd before but then dominated those same guys later. Because it's such a once in a lifetime fight, I don't think Tonal will be back for the rematch. More because of the current status of his manager than because he'd keep that win intact and wouldn't want to give it another try.That sucks but we can understand. A dream fight happened and we're glad to have witnessed it. If Womba wants to build himself back to that spot, he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 No it is not. It is not as if we are going to sit here and have them fight 5-6 times. I mean all the top fighters will eventually beat each other if you keep on spamming fights. Actually it is, you're dealing with a mathematics based simulation not a human fighter so ultimately it does boil down to odds. Drawing any kind of conclusion from a sample size of one is foolish. I think the thing that drew a lot of guys to Tonal was the fact that he was really one of the 1st guys who used the ground successfully at such a high and consistent level. Not that he was a ground fighter exactly but he was certainly well-rounded and used his wrestling. Not many that I can remember had success like that w/ the ground at that high of a level and was what I found so interesting about him. Because Tonal was such a successful wrestler in a time that the game was owned by strikers and Womba's success came more when the engine changed to suit wrestlers is why I give the edge to Tonal. Tonal got a very beneficial engine change when the 100% counter era ended, he was close to the best striker in the game anyway, but Deamus was definitely ahead of the curve on having a ground option. The only manager who was really dominating with grapplers when everyone else was using strikers was edwardsfan, much as I hate to credit him anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Tonal > Womba Womba had his chance and got fist-fucked. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyosullivan Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Has anyone heard what Tonal is going to do now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Nothing official yet, we will see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Has anyone heard what Tonal is going to do now? Hes going to disney world 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Great to see legends return and kick ass. Now we need to bring someone else out of retirement. Bubba KillsInWater, Bubba KillsInWater, Bubba KillsInWater 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Has anyone heard what Tonal is going to do now? There will be a rematch. Kelly wanted one and I can hardly say no when she accepted the first one. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyosullivan Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 There will be a rematch. Kelly wanted one and I can hardly say no when she accepted the first one. Sounds great! Will be looking forward to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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