listerman Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I got used to it. Anyway, when I had more time I really enjoyed scouting opponents like sens-sens-elite-black etc and guess their hiddens and secondaries by considering lots of variables, it's much more funnier than it would be with lesser skill cap. Changes are good, but this change would apply to lots of created and developed fighters and it would change the whole game. It's not a change, it's revolution. Yeah I understand what you mean about that, but that's why I mentioned using the next island season to test it out. It's not something that would happen instantly. It's just that right now, top-level fights depend totally on hiddens. Yes, hiddens have to play a major role in a fight, but it would be nice to be able to win a fight, even if you don't have the best hiddens, so you could exploit a fighter's weakness in order to use it at your advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Most people who know what they are doing sack a guy with low confidence, cuts, chin or taps out to strikes so almost all of the top fighters have the same hiddens, so once again we are back to having a conundrum of generic clones at max skills. How many fighters in WSOF, Bellator, UFC and other orgs are REALLY elite in Boxing, MT, Wresting AND BJJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poraan Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I dont like this because it just makes hiddens less valuable.. Currently fighters that have great hiddens have advantage. And there isnt really that many guys with really solid hiddens, 80% of top fighters doesent even have that good hiddens. Luck is already really big factor at fights. People may have really solid primaries, but 76-80% cap makes already a lot difference between fighters. Also after this fighter would be capped at age of 20.. There would be best builds after this too, noone wouldnt have any ground offensive skills. Every fighter would have elite physicals and striking skills + some defensive ground skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I dont like this because it just makes hiddens less valuable.. Currently fighters that have great hiddens have advantage. And there isnt really that many guys with really solid hiddens, 80% of top fighters doesent even have that good hiddens. Luck is already really big factor at fights. People may have really solid primaries, but 76-80% cap makes already a lot difference between fighters. Also after this fighter would be capped at age of 20.. There would be best builds after this too, noone wouldnt have any ground offensive skills. Every fighter would have elite physicals and striking skills + some defensive ground skills. I agree. And if we would lower the cap and amount of gained skill points from training to balance it that would cause that the game would become boring. Edited November 25, 2014 by zatochi725 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 This is why the game will just stay with the same ass primaries and all the fighters looking the same while half of the Hall Of Fame managers have left due to boredom. Its honestly pointless to think of any ideas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerman Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There would be best builds after this too, noone wouldnt have any ground offensive skills. Every fighter would have elite physicals and striking skills + some defensive ground skills. So you're saying that all fighters would be strikers with defensive ground skills, meaning that this game currently is focused on striking because the ground game is useless? How about adding a dropdown on fighter creation letting you choose the fighter's main primary? Meaning that selecting Wrestling would give a slight advantage once you hit the ground top or something like that? There's a lot of simple addons that could help improve the game and its diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 This is why the game will just stay with the same ass primaries and all the fighters looking the same while half of the Hall Of Fame managers have left due to boredom. Its honestly pointless to think of any ideas here. Buddy, you can think of any ideas and write them down, but don't expected everyone to blindly follow your ideas and accept everything without criticism. Everyone has his own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 If im understanding correctly, hiddens create diversity, But everyone sacks their fighters if they dont show certain hiddens leading all fighters to have remotely the same hiddens. a lot of this sounds like fear of a level playing field. Why dont most veterans play the island in the first place? Buddy, you can think of any ideas and write them down, but don't expected everyone to blindly follow your ideas and accept everything without criticism. Everyone has his own opinion. Its not that i expect everyone to accept what i say, thats an unrealistic expectation. But it is kinda retarded when you suggest something and everyone rejects it yet complains about the current problem that is based on the exact idea someone presented to resolve. Then they make threads telling mike to fix the game or rage quit when they shot down the answer without trying to add cognitive energy to it. Prime Example: JLP brought up issues with the clinch, the community shot it down, (many people who are inactive now) then people make threads saying, get rid of knees and elbows since not many people use them and you dont really need them to defend them. Its still hard to get in and out of the clinch and aside from elbow spammers most gyms dont even offer those classes and clinchwork will be this way 3 years from now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poraan Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 So you're saying that all fighters would be strikers with defensive ground skills, meaning that this game currently is focused on striking because the ground game is useless? How about adding a dropdown on fighter creation letting you choose the fighter's main primary? Meaning that selecting Wrestling would give a slight advantage once you hit the ground top or something like that? There's a lot of simple addons that could help improve the game and its diversity. Almost every top fighter at 135/145/155 can take fight to the ground and finish fight there. At 170,185,205 and 265 theres some grapplers at top too. I agree that ground game is "little" boring, because counter/control tactic makes ground really boring.. Currently if you have pure striker you wont be even near cap. So fighter can be striker + defensive ground and some offensive ground skills. If cap gets lowered imagine fighter wich has takedowns,subs and gnp.. He loses those points at striking skills and physicals. Everyone knows what happens when someone has huge advantage at striking skills. About that dropdown, i dont know . It could work, but in the end would it give anything new. As i said i like when hiddens have a lot effect. After this fighter with solid hiddens would lose fight easier, just because hes opponent has selected better main primary at beginning. So it would be even more luck depant than now. We already have that thing that gives you extra points on skills that you have trained before fight, maybe this effect should be increased? If im understanding correctly, hiddens create diversity, But everyone sacks their fighters if they dont show certain hiddens leading all fighters to have remotely the same hiddens. This isnt true. When you look top fighters at 185 example. Theres like one guy at top 10 middleweights that has like really really solid hiddens. At 185 theres plenty of top guys that cant finish fights, doesnt have chin/ hearth or just lack confidence.. For me good fighter means fighter that doesent have any big weaknesses at hiddens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerman Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Currently if you have pure striker you wont be even near cap. So fighter can be striker + defensive ground and some offensive ground skills. If cap gets lowered imagine fighter wich has takedowns,subs and gnp.. He loses those points at striking skills and physicals. Everyone knows what happens when someone has huge advantage at striking skills. Look at it this way. If the cap is lowered, the fighter who "loses those points at striking and physicals", it comes to the same for the opposing fighter. Using your example, a pure striker can have really good striking skills, but since the cap is way lower, he won't be able to max physicals AND defensive ground skills. Not sure if I'm explaining right. And about the dropdown I talked about, of course some other stuff would have to be tweaked to make it worth it, but it's all about adapting. Selecting a main primary would only mean that, for example, selecting Wrestling, you have an advantage on the ground, and could also mean, have more chances to land a takedown. So those pure strikers would have to KO you pretty quick or have good takedown defense in order to beat you, and this is pretty much what real life is about. When you matchup a good striker vs good wrestler, chances are the wrestler will wrestle-fuck for 3 rounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I am just gunna say yes because Listerman told me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Look at it this way. If the cap is lowered, the fighter who "loses those points at striking and physicals", it comes to the same for the opposing fighter. Using your example, a pure striker can have really good striking skills, but since the cap is way lower, he won't be able to max physicals AND defensive ground skills. Not sure if I'm explaining right. And about the dropdown I talked about, of course some other stuff would have to be tweaked to make it worth it, but it's all about adapting. Selecting a main primary would only mean that, for example, selecting Wrestling, you have an advantage on the ground, and could also mean, have more chances to land a takedown. So those pure strikers would have to KO you pretty quick or have good takedown defense in order to beat you, and this is pretty much what real life is about. When you matchup a good striker vs good wrestler, chances are the wrestler will wrestle-fuck for 3 rounds. Great post, if you could just choose a main primary that would mean a world of difference in diversity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 From the writing perspective, this will enable those who enjoy writing to also add more flavor to the various organizations and the fights they host. I've noticed that in newer orgs, more managers pay attention to my writing, particularly if they're new / newer to this game. If they're a veteran then they'll just pretty much look to see what my prediction is and may or may not comment. Like Scooby and Wolf, I try to add comedy when I can, or make fighter observations based on their avatars, but even that after a while loses its luster. The overall idea of having a fighter as a "specialist" in a particular primary could potentially allow the manager to determine how to distribute points when creating said fighter, and also hone in on the essential secondaries to strengthen said specialty. Potentially another layer, if you will, of specialty can be added at creation, then the hiddens could supplement said deeper layer. For example, I create a fighter and select Boxing as his specialty. Another layer to this could be "Has a solid right/left hand", "Is a very effective body puncher", "is a good counter-puncher", then the hidden KO power, for example, would add more to the "solid right/left hand" a bit more than the body puncher because the solid punches are reserved for head shots. The counter-puncher aspect would receive more of a boost than body puncher but not as much as solid right/left hand. Just another idea on the pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) (...) The overall idea of having a fighter as a "specialist" in a particular primary could potentially allow the manager to determine how to distribute points when creating said fighter, and also hone in on the essential secondaries to strengthen said specialty. Potentially another layer, if you will, of specialty can be added at creation, then the hiddens could supplement said deeper layer. For example, I create a fighter and select Boxing as his specialty. Another layer to this could be "Has a solid right/left hand", "Is a very effective body puncher", "is a good counter-puncher", then the hidden KO power, for example, would add more to the "solid right/left hand" a bit more than the body puncher because the solid punches are reserved for head shots. The counter-puncher aspect would receive more of a boost than body puncher but not as much as solid right/left hand. Just another idea on the pile. In my opinion, proposed ideas, would favours boxers, especially boxers with good KO power, chin and TDD, with their ability to KO opponents (in the new system we would have bigger amount of good fighters from noob lub new managers, who would have a fighter with really low confdence, heart or glass jaw) such boxers with decent managers, who know how to scout their oponents strenght and weak sides, would dominate in the game. It would be called: "the boxers aka games rules change". Cheers. Edited November 25, 2014 by zatochi725 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 One thing to keep in mind: Adding a ton of diversity how is that going to effect match making and peoples willingness to accept fights??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerman Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 One thing to keep in mind: Adding a ton of diversity how is that going to effect match making and peoples willingness to accept fights??? Good point, but look at real life. A good matchup is pretty much always 2 fighters with a similar primaries, like 2 sluggers for example. Matching a pure boxer vs a pure wrestler happen once in a while, but it pretty much always results in a KO for the boxer, or a wrestle-fuck match for the wrestler. Adding diversity would change a lot, meaning a pure boxer will not be able to be maxed out on defensive ground skills, meaning the wrestler will have the ground advantage. I personally don't think it would affect much peoples willingness to accept fights, there's already a lot of manager who decline fair when they don't have an advantage anyways, that will never change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDude Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 One thing to keep in mind: Adding a ton of diversity how is that going to effect match making and peoples willingness to accept fights??? Maybe combining this change with making all the primaries BJJ belt style, refusals could be diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddennis2 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I don't like the idea. I really like when fighters looks almost excatly the same, cause all of them have different values in hiddens. It allows managers to do a better and more inteligent scouting and paying attention to details while scouting and knowing your fighters strong sides and hiddens. Current system is good, but I would like to read opinions of managers who are in the game for 4+ years and have experience with creating and developing beasts and have climbed to the top of the rankings or were there. Also, new system would caused that scouting would be way easier. I'm 100% against. It is good but it could be better. More skills means more ways to set up your fighter...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Maybe combining this change with making all the primaries BJJ belt style, refusals could be diminished. I suggested this a while back,not necessarily a black belt noxer but if every name rank was worth 30-40 skill points like BJJ people might not be bitches as often. It will still lead to triple elite blackbelts though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDude Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I suggested this a while back,not necessarily a black belt noxer but if every name rank was worth 30-40 skill points like BJJ people might not be bitches as often. It will still lead to triple elite blackbelts though If the top rank is high enough it should be difficult to achieve triple top rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 If the top rank is high enough it should be difficult to achieve triple top rank. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDude Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 What? Sorry. making the highest grade of "belt" very high in the scale maybe elite- should prevent triple black-red belts on boxing , MT etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Oh yeah i see, it should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 i am 100% against the lowering of any skill caps. It goes against everything that MMA has evolved into. MMA has changed from the Mark Coleman's and Royce Gracies to fighters like Don Frye and Bas Rutten then evolved to the current state of affairs with fighters like Weidman, GSP and Jon Jones who have very few flaws in their game and it is essentially a gameplan/hiddens type of theme to MMA which is pretty much what this game is and you go through all the states of evolution if you fight during your fighters training. Lowering the skill cap will make the game pretty much one dimensional until the preferred fighter which suits the engine takes prominence and then its back to clones. You can already lose upto 60-80 points currently just through training the clinch to sensational because it comes with woeful++ knees and elbows and whenever the clinch depops you have to train it again slowly but surely lowering the skill cap. I'd love Mike to stop the clinch training knees/elbows to see if it is truly the least trained skill which depops or if it is random. Lowering the skill cap also brings up another interesting thing. By the age of 21/22 a fighter may actually reach his max cap after that training is redundant. Fighters currently cap out around 24/25 before training becomes pointless. This basically just nullifies training taking another aspect out of the game. Mike would have to lower the training speed which will lead to another problem; having to wait a year and a half for a fighter who isn't even that great or fun to fight with. For me personally fighting with the sens across or elite across fighters are a lot of fun because its gameplanning more than trying to find a hole. Mike introducing these new counter sliders would also make this fucking hellish because these one dimensional fighters will be easy to scout. Quick edit I'd love to see the secondaries of an elite elite elite sens fighter. I have a few fighters who are sens sens elite sens and they are no elite skills on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Weidman, GSP and Jon Jones arent elite in every skill.... Also, in this game, your fighter can just be some run of the mill middle of the division fighter in a 15-30 ranked org and be basically elite. I have noticed the funnest fighters to use are the ones 30-50k behind the games current ID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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