shortfuse122829 Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think people should make a new thread for these ideas. This thread was supposed to be about takedowns, escapes, ref standups etc. That's not really true. Mike was just saying they were the proposed changes he was getting requested a lot. This thread IS for fight engine improvements. OK, so it looks like people are wanting a few tweaks to the fight engine, which I'm happy to do. The summary of what I've seen proposed: 1. Decrease standups. 2. Increase GNP land % and decrease damage from each GNP shot to compensate. 3. Decrease energy loss from failed takedowns. *N.B. People were actually calling for increased % of takedowns succeeding but I think this will be a better solution. 4. Easier to get into clinch and to break the clinch. 5. Clinch takedowns failing shouldn't break clinch quite as often. Everyone happy with that? Any additions / objections, please post below. Try and keep it brief but with some reasoning. Thanks! p.s. I have a question regarding standups... Is the problem A. Quick standups after a takedown. B. A while after the takedown it just becomes too hard to keep it on the ground. C. Both. At the moment we have a base value for standups that can get hit after e.g. 6 moves on the ground, so if you are really inactive for the first 6 moves you would get stood up. Then after each move we have an additional value that slowly builds up, so the more moves you have on the ground the move active you need to be to keep it there. I can adjust either of those factors. In bold he asked if everyone is happy with that and any additions or objections. So all of these seem relevant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 The ground game is a very confusing puzzle that produces questionable results. below, are my ground top sliders. Elite Wrestler, Black Belt http://i.imgur.com/Y5HO2Ss.jpg HIGHLY PROACTIVE FINISHER ^^^ false advertising. yet, the ONLY thing my fighter did was 0/1 on advancing position. Didn't throw a strike, didn't do anything. Remained inactive, maybe one or two text lines saying he tried to control, and try to advance position a single time... does the ground game work any more? or is this just a case of bad luck. so... when you set the above sliders, and the only thing your fighter tried to do was advance position one time, it seems like the imagery is painting a false illusion of what your fighter is actually going to do. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/takedown2.gif Tolonen ties up his opponent against the cage and manages to drag the fight down to the ground. Tolonen no doubt will be looking to work submissions from his guard. Tolonen trying to control the position. Taticzek preventing the sweep. The ref warns both fighters not to hold the cage as they work up against the meshing.http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/1.gifThat's one minute gone in the round. Taticzek stays in close to Tolonen's body and controls the position. Taticzek continues to stall. Taticzek wants to get up but he can't break Tolonen's closed guard. He needs to be careful trying to break the legs open, as he's open to submissions here. Taticzek is frustrating his opponent with some stalling tactics from top position.The referee is asking the fighters to pick up the pace. Tolonen controls Taticzek momentarily but Taticzek frees himself. Taticzek wants to stand but Tolonen has a closed guard, so he can't escape. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/refstandup3.gif I'll chalk it up to bad luck, but I frequently question if the ground sliders transition for the engine as they should. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 You were on the bottom via pulling guard and you posted your top sliders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 You were on the bottom via pulling guard and you posted your top sliders. Ahhh thanks, that makes sense now. Didn't notice that before. http://i.imgur.com/gySkzQP.jpg Just bad luck and being controlled from the top. Makes more sense. The picture thing does say proactive, finisher, and attacking still, but just unlucky rolls and being controlled from top. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 One question I have is when escapes were first put in it was for standup guys only, no need for ground guys to have them. Will it still be that way? What I am getting at is if 2 fighters are on the ground and one tries to escape will the fight engine look at the other fighters escapes also and figure that into if he gets the escape? In my opinion it should not, they were put in for an extra skill for strikers to train because ground guys have more then them already. This may have already been addressed on here but I could not find it. I hate to admit that I have not been following this as closely as I should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 One question I have is when escapes were first put in it was for standup guys only, no need for ground guys to have them. Will it still be that way? What I am getting at is if 2 fighters are on the ground and one tries to escape will the fight engine look at the other fighters escapes also and figure that into if he gets the escape? In my opinion it should not, they were put in for an extra skill for strikers to train because ground guys have more then them already. This may have already been addressed on here but I could not find it. I hate to admit that I have not been following this as closely as I should have. Yup, you don't need escapes to stop your opponent from escaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 It should do, how can you stop an escape attempt technique if you've not studied the technique yourself. BJJ has some escapes that would warp your mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Gnp from guard top or bottom will be more effective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 It should do, how can you stop an escape attempt technique if you've not studied the technique yourself. BJJ has some escapes that would warp your mind. Yeah, but that would be another extra skill for grapplers. This skill is meant to balance the gap between strikers and grapplers more, since now there are much more grappling related skills than striking. It's already hard to get a takedown, imagine if it was even harder to keep opponent on the ground with escapes, and the referee standups are gone nowhere... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpierrecanada Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 So pumped for these changes to come. Have a lot of fighters who will benefit from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokujin Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Does this engine changes work now? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcalimon Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Man, I think it's time for the changes to go live. I've been training escapes for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 OK cool. I'm happy to try and set a date. I'd propose Mon 13th? Start of next week is a bit soon for me cos I still have a lot to do and I don't wanna do it end of a week (busy time) in case there are any bugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 sounds good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbob Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 OK cool. I'm happy to try and set a date. I'd propose Mon 13th? Start of next week is a bit soon for me cos I still have a lot to do and I don't wanna do it end of a week (busy time) in case there are any bugs. Mike i wanted to quote you now 2 times and every time your post changed hope this keeps now About what time are you thinking doing it? Just so we know if our Fighters are effectet on a certain event? otherwise date sounds fine. I think there is just no right moment to go live on the update date wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'd have to go with "I don't know" on that one but usually it's around the Island fight time, cos that's when I'm most awake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbob Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 ok thats at least a time frame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcalimon Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Mike, if you can it would be awesome it you could do it before the Island fight time on the 12th of July. Big fight coming up for me against a grappler and I trained all these weeks just escapes to ensure victory. I know it's a bit personal but I'm just asking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah, nice try. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Very excited about the coming changes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrClean Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 +1000 to Mike's changes -1000 to whiny veteran managers who moaned their way into morphed escapes to keep their soon to be outdated fighters relevant after gaming the broken system for the last couple years. IMO this change should have been made quietly so they got what they had coming in the way of a few losses. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpierrecanada Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 +1000 to Mike's changes -1000 to whiny veteran managers who moaned their way into morphed escapes to keep their soon to be outdated fighters relevant after gaming the broken system for the last couple years. IMO this change should have been made quietly so they got what they had coming in the way of a few losses. ? Explain, morphed fighters? I thought Mike wasn't allowing that. I also can't wait for the changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpierrecanada Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 OK cool. I'm happy to try and set a date. I'd propose Mon 13th? Start of next week is a bit soon for me cos I still have a lot to do and I don't wanna do it end of a week (busy time) in case there are any bugs. Awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumph Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Have not read this entire thread, but thought I should mention that twice I have had a fighter with 12+ wrestling, 13 takedown defense, and very good (at least double-digit) across-the board physicals get taken down immediately by a fighter with 1 wrestling even though I set the opponent tactics to look for the shoot takedown 100%. I would expect that my guy would be standing there with his palm on the guy's forehead holding him off from taking me down if that was the case. To get taken down immediately and quickly subbed does not make a whole lot of sense to me. A superior wrestler, with good physical skills, getting manhandled by a weaker grappler when you know it's coming? Not saying my guy should be completely immune from being taken down in this situation, but it sure as hell should not be a cakewalk for the opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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