Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Anyone know when a fix maybe coming? Any chance the orgs get motivatated and stop putting spamers on cards? maybe im just bitter cause i lost a to a BS fighter but just wondering. It makes no sense that at 0% energy he could get me down when im still over 50%. I guess it was just bad luck, but something should not allow for 100% takedown, even if you put it down. how often do people just shoot and shoot with no actual stand up fighting at all, really? it just seems lame. And i understand that if you cant punch then you dont want to stand, but even those guys through crappy punches and kicks before they shoot. fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 damn you almost had him also --- another 30 secs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Anyone know when a fix maybe coming? Any chance the orgs get motivatated and stop putting spamers on cards? maybe im just bitter cause i lost a to a BS fighter but just wondering. It makes no sense that at 0% energy he could get me down when im still over 50%. I guess it was just bad luck, but something should not allow for 100% takedown, even if you put it down. how often do people just shoot and shoot with no actual stand up fighting at all, really? it just seems lame. And i understand that if you cant punch then you dont want to stand, but even those guys through crappy punches and kicks before they shoot. fight mike knows about it and its going to get fixed, currently their are other things on the plate that take priority over it: hard to understand but all the dev stuff isnt always mentioned. def something that i hope to see fixed soon as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I don't see a problem with a guy only shooting. It's just like Caol Uno vs Fisher, he's obviously not going to stand and bang with him. Spamming (or whatever dastardly tag people want to place on anything related to grappling) is part of the game, and something you need to think about beating with your tactic sliders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrilli Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 You can't prepare for takedown spamming with tactics. You can only control your own takedowns and your aggressiveness. Everyone knows Demian Maia's going for a takedown but you couldn't take that into consideration in this game since the fighter learns to avoid takedowns in that current match. Trying dozens of takedowns in a fight maybe fine in a game but if MMA Tycoon strives for a realistic fight "simulation", the takedowns will have to cost a lot more energy. Or make the lost energy count etc. Anyway takedown defence is vital and every fighter should know how to wrestle at least a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backelie Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 It makes no sense that at 0% energy he could get me down when im still over 50%. 0 energy after the fight doesn't necessarily mean 0 energy at the moment the fight ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 uno at least threw kicks and punches, some not 0. but anyway, i dont care if you set to 100% if thats what you want so be it. i think it is just a amount of attempts that really gets to me. i think it would be hard to attempt 60+ takedowns in a 15 min fight. I know some would be quick fails, but some if not the majority would be attempts with sprawls and drawn out wrestling struggles to stay standing. which seems to me would take longer. I would just be happy if the only change was if you set to 100% takedown or even submission on the ground that it would lower your amount of moves. as both those take more time than say a punch or a kick. anyway, i didnt mean to come on and bitch, just felt like i got BS'd there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diori Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sometimes when you see a crappy stand-up fighter overwhelmed by his opponent the he will constantly shoot for a takedown. After a couple of times he'll probably get rocked by a solid knee. Not in this game. The fighters have an attribute called intelligency but honestly there's nothing intelligent about these guys' fighting. Faking is a big part of offense but if you spam one move time after time (no matter how well you try to fake your shots) your opponent knows what to expect. Spam body kicks --> your leg will be caught, spam shoot takedowns --> you get a knee in your face, spam high kicks --> you're caught off balance. Why isn't it so here? The match engine is dysfunctional in some many levels. It is possible for a match to go on for 15 minutes without neither guy even trying punching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sub spamming is starting to piss me off, because honestly for real do you ever see a fighter attempt like 6 different subs in a minute?, like wtf is the other guy just lying there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sometimes when you see a crappy stand-up fighter overwhelmed by his opponent the he will constantly shoot for a takedown. After a couple of times he'll probably get rocked by a solid knee. Not in this game. The fighters have an attribute called intelligency but honestly there's nothing intelligent about these guys' fighting. Faking is a big part of offense but if you spam one move time after time (no matter how well you try to fake your shots) your opponent knows what to expect. Spam body kicks --> your leg will be caught, spam shoot takedowns --> you get a knee in your face, spam high kicks --> you're caught off balance. Why isn't it so here? The match engine is dysfunctional in some many levels. It is possible for a match to go on for 15 minutes without neither guy even trying punching. nothing is as clear cut as you make it out to be, did you see Cung Le vs Fryklund in strikeforce a couple of years back? cung le threw kick after kick and Tony Fryklund had no chance of catching any of them. as for 15 minutes with no punches well i've never seen that but if two guys set to counter 100% then what do you think will happen? besides one of my fighters faced a guy who did nothing but go for the take down, it was a legit tactic in my eyes as he didnt want to stand with him. But he got KO'd pretty quickly so it cant be as full proof a plan as people are moaning about. See this fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 the only thing annoys me about the spamming is the lack of energy effecting it. 100 takedowns should result in 10+ sloppy takedowns and a fighter that can hardly stand or a predictable knee to the face or uppercut. even BJJ guys need to be able to work some standup, just like standup guys need to work grappling. its nothing to it, just a guy entering a fight with 0 energy should get flopped over like a fish and not be able to do crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royp777 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 the only thing annoys me about the spamming is the lack of energy effecting it. That's the part that bugs me, too. I don't mind a guy going for takedown after takedown and sub after sub, as long as he gasses out when he's not successful and my guy can punish him for it. Look at what happens in a real MMA fight when a guy wears his arms out when he can't tap his opponent out with a guillotine. As it is now, there's no strategy involved because there's no risk involved ... all he needs is one good random result and he wins. Throw enough crap at a wall and some of it's gonna stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 You can't prepare for takedown spamming with tactics. You can only control your own takedowns and your aggressiveness. Everyone knows Demian Maia's going for a takedown but you couldn't take that into consideration in this game since the fighter learns to avoid takedowns in that current match. Trying dozens of takedowns in a fight maybe fine in a game but if MMA Tycoon strives for a realistic fight "simulation", the takedowns will have to cost a lot more energy. Or make the lost energy count etc. Anyway takedown defence is vital and every fighter should know how to wrestle at least a little bit. Yes you can, by setting it to counter in the standup. Just my opinion, but I think people just want to steer this game towards striking, so all you ever hear about are takedown spamming, and submission spamming, and how there should be more energy taken from guys who go for subs and takedowns. It just seems like people want massive amount of energy taken from guys who go for takedowns and subs..personally I don't think it's realistic for a white belt to defend more than one or two submission attempt from a brown belt--but it happens in this game. We do takedown drills at my gymn all the time, and I could do probably 20 or 30 before I get sapped. It's the takedowns where a guy sprawls and he's fending you off for over 20-30 seconds that take the wind out of your sails, but we don't have those kind of td's here--where 30 seconds of game time go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfu Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Yes you can, by setting it to counter in the standup. Just my opinion, but I think people just want to steer this game towards striking, so all you ever hear about are takedown spamming, and submission spamming, and how there should be more energy taken from guys who go for subs and takedowns. It just seems like people want massive amount of energy taken from guys who go for takedowns and subs..personally I don't think it's realistic for a white belt to defend more than one or two submission attempt from a brown belt--but it happens in this game. We do takedown drills at my gym all the time, and I could do probably 20 or 30 before I get sapped. It's the takedowns where a guy sprawls and he's fending you off for over 20-30 seconds that take the wind out of your sails, but we don't have those kind of td's here--where 30 seconds of game time go by. People want the game to be MORE geared toward grappling. But it can't be when there's a tactic that you can use to get bullshit unrealistic wins. I'm a 155er and if I ever went for 10 takedowns and subs in a round I can guarrentee you I would be tired enough for my oponent to finish me the next round. Conditioning and energy seem to play no role as well. When you say sub spamming is a part or MMA you're PARTLY right. But when did Tito takedown spam Chuck? or Royce sup spam Hughes? I didn't see it. And for good reason. A- you have to have some level of control, or a damn good set up to get a sub. That takes time. B- When going for a sub you exert energy. So guys doing 25 sub attempts in a 3 rounder that aren't Rani Yahya or 135 pounds are rediculous to even get lucky. Control/ setups need to actually factor. So does cardio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I fail to feel sorry for people who complain about takedowns because you can build to counter it. If you know something is a favor of the month and is stopable then build around that. Everyone by now should know that a larger portion of the community loves to make purple/brown takedown and sub spammers. So by now you should be building guys to counter that fighters with very high takdown defense, sub defense and good balance. If you feel the need to make a balance fighter or a fighter with comp takedown defense and sub defense and plan to train it up well if you fight before you have it trained up and face a takedown/sub guy you derseve to lose for being a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diori Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 nothing is as clear cut as you make it out to be, did you see Cung Le vs Fryklund in strikeforce a couple of years back? cung le threw kick after kick and Tony Fryklund had no chance of catching any of them. That's a shit comparison right there. If Cung had thrown a dousin of kicks none of which landing and Tony not capable of countering any of the shit Cung threw, you would make a solid argument. In this game people can throw a KO punch 5 billion times in a fight without paying any consequences in terms of fatigue or getting countered. as for 15 minutes with no punches well i've never seen that but if two guys set to counter 100% then what do you think will happen? The answer to your question can be found in the manual. besides one of my fighters faced a guy who did nothing but go for the take down, it was a legit tactic in my eyes as he didnt want to stand with him. But he got KO'd pretty quickly so it cant be as full proof a plan as people are moaning about. Of course it's not full proof but it's BS and totally unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatflop Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 How about a change where each time a fighter used a move it gave his opponent a cumulative bonus for countering it the next time. Then each time he used a different move the bonuses for each other move would go down. So if a fighter threw kicks or takedowns more than 2/3 of the time it would become more and more likely that he would be caught and punished for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfu Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 All that needs to happen is when something is being used like takedown spamming, or sub spamming, or ko spamming, the chance of it being succesful needs to dramatically lower. Ko spamming is probably the next to come when sub and takedown spamming get fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backelie Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 How about a change where each time a fighter used a move it gave his opponent a cumulative bonus for countering it the next time. Then each time he used a different move the bonuses for each other move would go down. So if a fighter threw kicks or takedowns more than 2/3 of the time it would become more and more likely that he would be caught and punished for it. I think it's already supposed to sort of work like this, and just might need cranking up a little bit, along with tiredness also meaning a bit more. I really hope Mike doesn't overdo it and "strike spamming" becomes the new subspam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Spammers suck. hope it gets fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Usually in a real wrestler vs striker matchup, the striker doesn't just "stuff" the takedown and then they both take steps back and think about what they'll do next. A failed takedown attempt for a good wrestler means he has grappled around the guys legs but hasn't pulled him to the ground yet. They may stay in that position for the rest of the round, with the striker unable to escape but defending the takedown. Ideally the clinch would simulate this part of the wrestler working for the takedown but it doesn't. There isn't a three minute long phase of the clinch "[x] is still hanging onto [y], working for the takedown. [y] is defending it well so far." Until the clinch properly represents the struggle for a takedown, takedown spamming must be allowed to exist, and it must be reasonably effective. So you want takedown spamming to stop? Well then expect 70% of failed takedowns from real wrestlers to end up in the clinch. Then you'll all bitch about how it isn't fair that your boxer has to develop clinchwork in addition to takedown defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontcareaboutmyid Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 funny, I had a guy fight my fighter that was a takedown spammer and I beat him 30:26 30:25 30:26 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=42582 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sathias Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I think the main factor is that it takes less skill distribution to make a successful ground fighter than a successful stand-up fighter, meaning you can be better with those skills because your points aren't spread as thinly. To make a good ground fighter you need good subs, sub defence, takedowns, and striking defence. To make a good MT guy, as an example, you need good punching, kicks, clinchwork, elbows and/or knees, striking defence, takedown defence and sub defence. Boxing is much easier to balance than MT though. The balance adjustments I'd make would be a] Make takedowns slightly harder. Sometimes it seems like every half-decent wrestler has GSP-level takedowns. Quite often the very first action in a round will be a successful takedown, its a little unrealistic. b] Make standing up from the ground slightly easier from the top position. c] Make an aggressive sub setting make slightly less sub attempts per minute than what is happening currently. d] People with near-useless boxing AND MT need to really feel it. Just like the game warns about making BJJ white belts. Think Maia vs Marquardt e] Maybe think about merging elbows and knees somehow? Overall I think the fight engine is pretty damn good, all forms of fighting are viable, including ones which don't seem to be used a lot such as aggressive clinch-work. But maybe some little adjustments are in order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 I disagree it only takes 4 stats to make a good sprawl and brawl fighter. Pure standup you only need 2. It's not harder to make a standup fighter. People just get trapped into the notion that quanitity is better than quality. They start out making a good standup fighter, but decide they want to give him a little clinch just incase and then some elbows for when he gets in the clinch and some takedown ability just in case they go up against a fighter with better standup, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Does setting the slider to control mean you just hold him down and thus avoid any attempt at subs even if you don't have great grappling? Grappling skill has ZERO to do with your ability to just grab someone's head and hold them down so what if standup fighter set their sliders to 95% control and 95% standup? Hold em til you got an opening and get them the fuck off you. Remember the Bully Beatdown episode where the bully just grabbed ahold of the MMA Fighter from the bottom and kept him there the whole 5 minutes leaving him helpless to do anything? Maybe strength should affect how long you can hold someone and of course with enough skill the grappler can get out of it but tweaking the control slider seems like a pretty reasonable solution to this. Am I wrong? Also, can you give me some instruction on building an effective 2 stat standup fighter that won't get subbed in 1 minute flat (as the wiki says)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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