Training Changes

[misfire200]

Some initial questions Mike if you do not mind elaborating:

 

Will you be doing small initial changes and then tweak them as needed, especially with you working with the energy system?

 

With the need for variety can we expect a "change all" button(possessions, training) soon before these changes to help with making supplement changes every day, and would it be possible to now switch between supplements in a day/night cycle?

 

Also, could you clarify on this phrase "First of all, training will begin to take more energy at the top end of the conditioning spectrum but less at the bottom" -> Maybe its not phrased right, but do you mean that the higher the person is trying to train a skill(say remarkable, or what not) the more energy it takes compared to training a skill at say competent? Because the way your phrase is written it sounds like you are saying that the higher a person's conditioning is, the more energy they use, which too me would not make sense as a person with more conditioning would be able to accomplish more at less of an energy use. I believe you mean that it takes more energy to gain points in a higher skill set, which would be nifty if thats what you mean. Please could you clarify just a little.

 

An increase in recovery speed would be awesome so that will be a much welcome change. Although possibly making injuries affect that since it would in real life.

 

Any chance you could make fighters possibly learn from there fights(besides experience) which would show that they could also improve from a fight, and maybe base it off there performance and who there opponent was?

 

Also with the changes in sparring could you possibly implement a system to see what the average abilities are of those sparring at gyms?

 

Thanks for the information Mike.

[qdiddynew]

ughh... just read the post. my fighter koji kenjahara never had good cardio... with a week to go I decided to give him one cardio session since it was popping my other newbie fighters like no other. even with recovery, he is now a 0 in energy. Ugh. With a fight on the 16th I am pretty sure to lose. But meh, I got two up and comers and a 9-1-0 fighter left.

[Guest]

You just don't know when to quit do you? Goddamn. I asked you to stop with the insults, I asked you to just be cool. You can't fuckin' do it. All I can do is toss my hands up and realize that some people are just assholes and won't be reasoned with. You edited your post TWICE just to act arrogant. I would ask that you please just don't even read any of my threads if you come across them but I know you will just for the sake of trolling. It's sick, man. real sick. But I guess there's one like you in every forum.

 

I asked whether you were a human yo-yo and said you were crying. So far for the insults. Further I try to bring my point across that people shouldn't exercise their right to complain (?) so quickly. You ignore all that and take the easy road by calling me a troll.

 

I will take your advice and ignore your posts.

[Guest]

Overall, I'm not worried about the changes. I think people should wait to see how it works out before flipping out. But I think the vagueness of your replies is what is driving them mad.

That's their problem isn't it? They don't have to make assumptions about it. Just wait and figure it out, something Mike adviced multiple times.

[Guest]

Also, could you clarify on this phrase "First of all, training will begin to take more energy at the top end of the conditioning spectrum but less at the bottom" -> Maybe its not phrased right, but do you mean that the higher the person is trying to train a skill(say remarkable, or what not) the more energy it takes compared to training a skill at say competent? Because the way your phrase is written it sounds like you are saying that the higher a person's conditioning is, the more energy they use, which too me would not make sense as a person with more conditioning would be able to accomplish more at less of an energy use. I believe you mean that it takes more energy to gain points in a higher skill set, which would be nifty if thats what you mean. Please could you clarify just a little.

 

What I got from it is that even with improved conditioning your gym sessions will still be draining but you won't be half dead for not being remarkable anymore... It obviously shouldn't be equal drain for a competent vs. superb but maybe we can imagine that a more conditioned fighter has to push a harder routine to achieve results?

 

The fight is where conditioning really should count. You can take rests while training when you aren't quite a he-man yet... but in the cage asking a 230 lbs jiu jitsu expert to "please get off of me I am tired" doesn't really fly. Conditioning helps you to tolerate the lactic acid overloads in real life and makes this feel like a pretty reasonable change to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Yeah, God forbid some changes without somebody complaining about it like a little baby.

 

If I knew that you would feel insulted by a smiley than I wouldn't have used it. But the fact that do is an affirmation that I used the right one. It's not the dislike, it are the baseless assumptions and needless complaining.

 

People weren't complaining about not being able to use their pc to communicate with eachother either, and yet they created the internet. I don't see how that's an argument.

You put a smiley of a baby next to my name, which would suggest I'm being a baby for voicing a complaint. I wasn't insulted, but found the comparison ridiculous when you look at half the bitching on this forum.

 

"People weren't complaining about not being able to use their pc to communicate with eachother either, and yet they created the internet. I don't see how that's an argument."

 

DOES NOT EQUAL

 

"It's like dealing with someone that repeatedly demanded apples for them to make apple pie by giving them oranges and telling to them to make orange juice instead."

 

A more sensible comparison would be the creation of the game itself. Additionally, the internet was created for military purposes. It was later used for commercial purposes as the technology was available and any good, new business innovation is anticipating such desires. Completely different in this case.

 

Overall, I'm not worried about the changes. I think people should wait to see how it works out before flipping out. But I think the vagueness of your replies is what is driving them mad. Will our fighter quit a particular type of training after 3 sessions a week? 6? Does the fighter...

This thread is not about sparring.

[qdiddynew]

this is an evolving league people. the admins know what is best. i just bought VIP cause i have been here for 4 or 5 months and i realized how talented these admin are. please people...

[Guest]

 

I asked whether you were a human yo-yo and said you were crying. So far for the insults, Boo Hoo. Further I try to bring my point across that people shouldn't exercise their right to complain (?) so quickly. You ignore all that and take the easy road by calling me a troll.

 

I will take your advice and ignore your posts.

 

taken from wikipedia:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory(1 : tending to excite anger, disorder, or tumult), irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response"

 

your first post on this thread:

 

Invictus, .

 

point and case.

 

Anyway. Thanks for agreeing to just leave me out of your bad vibes. Hopefully we can find something to see eye to eye on in the future. But this is way lame of you, man. I'ma smoke a bowl and just chill for a while.

 

[sathias]

Who complained about this? Did any of the members even believe this to be a problem with the game?

 

Irrelevant. We aren't in a position to have an overall view of the game mechanics, only the small part we deal with. And we don't have a perspective on what Mike's long-term plans are for the game, and how he envisioned things should work.

 

Game balance isn't an issue that most players have anything resembling an objective view on. Most players view these sorts of issues based on what gives them advantage, rather than what is good for the game overall.

 

I've run and done dev on net based games before, and sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions for the good of the game, its as simple as that. If Mike's work is good enough for people to want to play the game he's created, people should just have a bit of faith that his decisions will be equally as good, even if there is some short-term pain. In the end, the good managers will take stock of how things work after the changes and adjust to the new environment, which will give them an advantage over the people who are too busy complaining about the changes that have been made.

[Guest]

You put a smiley of a baby next to my name, which would suggest I'm being a baby for voicing a complaint. I wasn't insulted, but found the comparison ridiculous when you look at half the bitching on this forum.

Fair.

 

DOES NOT EQUAL

No, of course it doesn't equal. That wasn't the point. I wanted to use manual car windows vs electical car windows but I figured that you wouldn't be difficult about the origin of the internet.

 

The point was that good changes don't have to come from people asking for it. Be glad you get something rather than nothing. And speak for yourself please. I'm glad about these changes because I'm not as short sighted. In the long run these changes would have been necessary because the game is advancing way too quickly.

[Guest]

point and case.

Sorry friend, I wasn't trying to provoke an emotional response. I was trying to make the point that you should complain so quickly. -edit: at least it's not my primary intent - If you start crying at the first bit of negative comment than that's not my problem.

 

Now I'm absolutely tired of you and you off-topic posts trying to provoke an emotional response from me. Therefor you are officially ignored.

[Guest]

You're still typing at me... And STILL pushing to justify your points.

 

Can we please be done with this?

 

[Rambo]

Yeah, God forbid someone dislike Mike's changes without even resorting to insults.

 

The problem I have with it this: People have been complaining about spam tactics for MONTHS. People have been complaining about the lack of effect energy had during the course of a fight for MONTHS.

 

Hell, Mike himself can't even count the number of threads complaining about that stuff.

 

And instead of seeing either of those long-awaited changes, energy is being changed for a completely different aspect of the game and it's a change that's demand was little to none.

 

It's like dealing with someone that repeatedly demanded apples for them to make apple pie by giving them oranges and telling to them to make orange juice instead.

 

I don't get that.

 

This.

[Guest]

Steeve and ChronicCrush, get a room. Use private messages for private wars, people are not interested.

[Guest]

If the diminishing returns are based on sparring the same thing I have no problem with that. But the idea that sparring different disciplines during the same week would get diminishing returns is beyond illogical. The idea that training BJJ all week would make a boxing sparring session at the end of that week less productive because the fighter is just bored with sparring is silly. Most actual fighters do a session of striking and a session of grappling every day.

 

Of all the things that could really use a fix in this game (sub spamming, energy having ZERO effect during fights, leg and body kicks being totally pointless, clinch fighting being kind of useless) the fact that the only "fix" results in sparring becoming less useful and supplements less effective baffles me.

 

Edit: After re-reading this spoiler page, there is literally nothing good that is going to come out of this from a manager's perspective. I couldn't possibly care less about messages from fighters and what not. The only thing that even comes close to not being a bad change is the possibility that fighters may recover energy at a faster rate: something that is very much needed but is only mentioned as a possibility at this point. Even if this comes to pass, all told the game experience seems to me like it will be less than it was before. Bummer.

[Guest]

Steeve and ChronicCrush, get a room. Use private messages for private wars, people are not interested.

 

[Guest]

Sorry guys... I wish I could delete all my posts but this forum doesn't give you that option.

[Guest]

Drama aside...Will fighters with the fast learner trait be nerfed?

[Grey]

If the diminishing returns are based on sparring the same thing I have no problem with that. But the idea that sparring different disciplines during the same week would get diminishing returns is beyond illogical. The idea that training BJJ all week would make a boxing sparring session at the end of that week less productive because the fighter is just bored with sparring is silly. Most actual fighters do a session of striking and a session of grappling every day.

 

Of all the things that could really use a fix in this game (sub spamming, energy having ZERO effect during fights, leg and body kicks being totally pointless, clinch fighting being kind of useless) the fact that the only "fix" results in sparring becoming less useful and supplements less effective baffles me.

 

Edit: After re-reading this spoiler page, there is literally nothing good that is going to come out of this from a manager's perspective. I couldn't possibly care less about messages from fighters and what not. The only thing that even comes close to not being a bad change is the possibility that fighters may recover energy at a faster rate: something that is very much needed but is only mentioned as a possibility at this point. Even if this comes to pass, all told the game experience seems to me like it will be less than it was before. Bummer.

 

This says what I was trying to say earlier but in a much better way. I agree 100% with everything here.

[Guest]

Maaan what the hell are you guys complaining?! IMO this change will bring a fresh breeze to the training system. Everybody has to mix it up and tbh Im super stoked about the fact that sparring is being changed. YES REALLY! Im looking forward to this.

[sathias]

I really don't get why people are complaining so bitterly, even if it works as it sounds like it will currently (we really have no idea what the finished product will look like) all it will take is alternating sparring with coach training, what is so bad about that? Even looking at tag01's example of sparring different disciplines, spar BJJ in the morning and train punching in the afternoon. Wheres the harm?

 

The only harm is gyms which don't have any coaches and hence coach training, which is exactly the effect Mike is after, from what I can gather. People are ranting about realism, what is so realistic about a gym which has people sparring but no coaches to guide them in their training?

 

I really hope Mike keeps with his resolve on this issue, making dev decisions based on how loud people whinge is always a recipe for disaster.

[Guest]

the only people a system that forces you to spar and train with coaches within a timeframe, say a week, will be those whose fighters cant afford elite gyms who,ll have to put their fighters in crap gyms with massive fighter to coach ratios and huge numbers sparring of which you,ll have no control who you spar with. those in beez nest, ctt damage et al will get better while the rest dont improve much. sparring gyms may be flawed but they allowed people who dont have the time/inclination to open a company and make lots of cash, top quality training with the trade off that they used some of their fighter slots to make sparring partners.

[Guest]

Invictus is right about the energy changes, I can see them working out fine AND AM NOT SAYING THEY SUCK. I dont know enough about them yet to decide, but some of the things MT said could end up being sensible changes.

 

However I also agree that the energy change we are looking for was related to in fight things. I know this is a big issue and is probably a lot harder to fix, but I hope to see it worked on at some point soon

 

In the future Id also like to see a way to make sparring more accessible and useful. I think these changes mean it will take a lot longer to get sparring pops so people will want to be more careful about how they spar. There could be ways to make this easiest (ie sparring coaches to direct lessons or choosing who you spar with?) I dont know how well that would work though.

 

As usual good job Mike, at least you are very active in your game and try to make it better, even if we dont all see eye to eye (you cant please everyone).

[Guest]

and the gym owners whos chipping their support in, is laughable, your just happy cos this plays straight into your hands.

[Guest]

sparring coaches to direct lessons or choosing who you spar with

 

I can see choosing who you spar with being a REALLY beneficial add on if we ever get it. I would definitely pay a good fighter for a one on one with my guys. Maybe set it up so we can contract 3-5 training sessions for an agreed upon fee. I know there's a lot of other things to get to first though so I'd be happy to see this considered even if it doesn't happen for a while.