Exclusive Elite gyms with few members and low fees

[Guest]

If you made the money, why should restrictions be put on what you can do with that money? You put the time in, you deserve to reap the benefits.

 

because private gyms create such an unfair advantage

 

a salary cap is in place in the nfl so Dallas can't just buy the superbowl every year

[iloveme8]

because private gyms create such an unfair advantage

 

a salary cap is in place in the nfl so Dallas can't just buy the superbowl every year

 

That's totally different. That's making money in something else and moving it into the NFL, which would be analogous to being able to buy Tycoon dollars.

 

You have the right to spend any money you make in-game any way you choose.

[Guest]

That's totally different. That's making money in something else and moving it into the NFL, which would be analogous to being able to buy Tycoon dollars.

 

You have the right to spend any money you make in-game any way you choose.

 

So if people create a gym, then go bankrupt and pay another VIP, that wouldn't be right. It would be hard to determine which of these is appropriate in each gyms.

[PSUMike]

because private gyms create such an unfair advantage

 

a salary cap is in place in the nfl so Dallas can't just buy the superbowl every year

 

Its not unfair. If they were stealing the money, then its unfair. If they have the money to spend, there is not a problem.

[Guest]

That's totally different. That's making money in something else and moving it into the NFL, which would be analogous to being able to buy Tycoon dollars.

 

You have the right to spend any money you make in-game any way you choose.

 

 

no it isn't it's the exact same it's money made playing football selling tickets etc and using it

 

But

the real point is private gyms create an unfair advantage and not what Dallas are restricted to .Private gyms are my problem they can spend all they want if it's open to the public and say 30 or 40 fighters . Training day in day out with 1 to 1 session with an double elite trainer for all your fighters cause you transfered money from another company is unfair .

 

hell this was the argument against letting people have 2 companies

[CrazylegzSwam]

the Tycoon's on point to ensure a reasonably level playing field and if this becomes a major issue of 'have/have nots' then it sounds like there'll be some form of limitation put in place.

makes sense to have the owners' stable ability to train there tied to a ratio of say 7-1. in other words, your gym brings in 7 outside fighters and one of your guys can join.

[Guest]

OK, this is my opinion from quite a newer player too this game, and if anyone knows me they know I don't go round asking for hand outs, so this is what I think and I'll try too break this down simply.

 

BASICALLY; too start off with the problem is people can have gyms for themselves and a friends fighter with elites that they either A, afford by losing their ViP every month and get month after month of quality training for 6 bucks a month {Still not that bad price wise} OR they get funneled money from other buisness-es that could be ripping of their fighters/newer managers too get that much cash.

 

The problem with this is, it's hard too come up with a answer that shuts down the problem of a year or two down the track everyone having their own double elite gym for their fighters WITHOUT disadvantaging those who HAVE played longer, HAVE worked harder and quite frankly are better more experienced managers.

 

And too be honest it appears obvious that you can't do this with one straight solution, I think it's going too take a few.

 

First off, too min cap I say no, the problem currently isn't that the richer better managers can put their fighters in quality private gyms, it's people putting only their fighters in their own gym, hindering those experienced managers who have contacts with a private gym manager is wrong.

 

No too min cap.

 

Yes too a few other things....

 

First off, if you lose your gym, you can't have one the next month, too begin with you must payoff the debts while not having a company following that their needs too be away that doesn't stop the less experienced managers from having a go or two at a gym before getting a sucessful one, yet prevents those who are deliberately trying too get around the fact that you don't have too pay of the debt just get another ViP {Which is good for the financial side}

 

Secondly, the idea of limiting the amount of Elite coaches would've worked far better too begin with, so what happens too those who're owning quality gyms now, they just financial compensation? In my opinion yes. First off, raise the price of elite coaches, you want the difference of elite coaches and strong coaches too be great, you NEED too reward the higher quality managers for their money, by limiting the elite coaches and making their value higher.

 

Following up from that, if changes are being made in regards too making mins etc, the limit of fees should be raised.

 

We want conditioning too be about Conzad or lower and then the quality gyms too be about 1k, allowing a bigger gap between people.

 

The ability too not let managers have over x amount of fighters in their gym could also work but only if it's set properly.

 

They're only a few points too begin with, but really their needs too be more ways of spending money, currently gyms, clothes, nutrients, training.

 

For those raking in serious cash, not much too do with it and not many luxeries that are smiled upon other then crazy betting.

[Guest]

People with Nutrition or Clothing companies can't make their fighters buy their own stuff, so why can fighters join their managers own gym??

 

I'm not saying that we should remove the ability to join your own gym, I just think it's worth considering that the measure taken to limit Nutrition and Clothing companies aren't in effect for gyms.

[Guest]

People with Nutrition or Clothing companies can't make their fighters buy their own stuff, so why can fighters join their managers own gym??

 

I'm not saying that we should remove the ability to join your own gym, I just think it's worth considering that the measure taken to limit Nutrition and Clothing companies aren't in effect for gyms.

 

It's a little bit different. I can give free stuff to my fighters (I assume clothing companies can as well?), gym owners get no other benefits aside from being able to join their fighters to it. Although, I would totally love to not be able to give my guys free stuff and just filter my fighter money back into my company

[Ravener]

Man I'm interested to see how this is going to shake out. On the one hand, if someone creates a successful org and wants to bankroll a gym for themselves and their buddies, how can you tell them no? On the other hand, I have zero intention of signing for a fight with someone who came up that way.

 

I would almost recommend a league-type structure, where people who have had all that very specialized training can fight amongst themselves in one league, and get all the "prestige" or whatever they're looking for by steamrolling people with lab-created beasts. Then a "minor-league" which contain the impoverished unwashed masses (like myself), kinda like how they had UFC/Pride, then IFL, then cagefights out back behind Crazy Bob's Barbeque and Package Liquor. How people would get divided into leagues I have no clue, nor do I know if each city would have league tiers or if, say, Vegas became big-boy land and developing fighters would be banished to Helsinki or, god-forbid, LA.

 

Anyway, will be watching thread to see what comes of this. Like Mike said, whatever you decide, something needs to be done and it's better to piss off a few people now than a few hundred later.

[Guest]

You guys all suck at analogies.

[santa]

This is the sentiment I agree with you on. The attitude expressed here of not wanting to put in the effort yet still have the same advantages or playing field as those who do take the time to master the games mechanics is a belief/view I do not support.

 

I firmly agree that those who have the time or who put in the effort to excel at a multiplayer game deserve a reward/advantage etc. What I am concerned about though is not having these advantages spiral out of control over time thereby damaging the long term health of the game world.

 

I've been playing and testing multiplayer online video games for more than a decade now and I have seen this pattern occur time and time again. What Mike is trying to do is head off these potential disasters before they even occur. Will the rich possibly take a hit to their potential advantages - it's very likely. But all I am pointing out is that you try and look at it from the perspective of ensuring the long term survival of the game itself and not look at it as a personal attack.

 

I do not have the possiblity to run a company that is feeding my secondary company, aka an Elite gym that offers training possibilities beyond the financial possibilities it generates.

 

 

 

I don't even have the possibility to do what some are doing.

[Guest]

To all the people who claim this doesn't let newer players compete at all, fact of the matter is that there are a variety of levels of orgs. You have orgs where you see the majority of managers/fighters would be what you would consider to be in the elite category. There are also orgs where you'd see most of the managers would be newer.

 

There's a place for everyone, if you make the game absolutely the same for everyone, people will just lose interest very fast which will make be detrimental in the long run.

[VeikkoK]

This does give quite an edge to older and richer managers, so newer manager's fighters have really hard time to ever reach top of the P4P list, but on the other hand, older manager already have that edge even without private gyms, because they can have older fighters. Is it bad, I don't know, it's same thing in every game and in real life, when those older guys retire, then the newer fighters start dominate even younger etc.

 

If you couldn't have your own fighters in your gym, that wouldn't solve anything. Then two rich managers could make gyms for each other, and nothing would change (except it would need tiny bit more work).

 

I think one problem is that elite coaches are too cheap. Almost all gyms have elite coaches, there's really not big niche for gyms with less than elite coaches. But on the other hand, if elite coaches would be more expensive (and max fees raised), then the really rich managers could use their money making private gyms that have elite gyms, and poorer managers would be even worse gyms, so it actually wouldn't help at all. Unless elite coaches would be so expensive, that even the uber rich managers couldn't afford those gyms just for themselves...

 

One thing I can think of is that gyms couldn't run on too much negative profit, like first month or so they could run with max 10000 loss a week, and after that you would lose a vip or something. Then people could just shut down the gym and start a new, so there should be somekind of rule that you cannot start another gym in 3 months or something after closing down.

[Guest]

Actually I think have can it be cheating if this game is compared to real life? Everyone can get gym and train there if he have money. I think the problem here is that if i have like Fight Organization and a tons of money i cant create a gym and that's kinda bad. If all VIP member who would have money to create gyms could do that then it would be equal to everyone and that's wouldn't be a problem but for now it kinda is.

 

 

 

Sorry for bad English but i hope you get my point!

 

 

EDIT: read a little more and yes that re buying VIP all the time and train then its totally not fair but if you get the money from other sources then I think its OK!

[VeikkoK]

And in real life there is limited amount of elite coaches so you couldn't necessarily get those to come to your private gym, and in real life if you had 100 million dollars you would by a jet and car and house and cocaine and whores and couldn't care less about using your money to gym, and actually good fighters would already have own team and own gym... And in real life almost none of us could create an organization which would make as rich as hell.

[Guest]

And in real life there is limited amount of elite coaches so you couldn't necessarily get those to come to your private gym, and in real life if you had 100 million dollars you would by a jet and car and house and cocaine and whores and couldn't care less about using your money to gym, and actually good fighters would already have own team and own gym... And in real life almost none of us could create an organization which would make as rich as hell.

 

 

You have to understand that compared to real life I meant that if you have money you can train 1 in your gym and that what should be in the game also but not with re buying VIPs but earning money from other things.

[VeikkoK]

 

You have to understand that compared to real life I meant that if you have money you can train 1 in your gym and that what should be in the game also but not with re buying VIPs but earning money from other things.

 

I was trying to be funny. Although I think there was one valid point hidden somewhere there... I'm not an expert on MMA training or anything, but I'm wondering is there much 1-1 elite training even in real world? I would think that there's always several members of team that the coach is training at same time, as all fighters of the team train something almost every day.

[GodzillaGreg]

This does give quite an edge to older and richer managers, so newer manager's fighters have really hard time to ever reach top of the P4P list, but on the other hand, older manager already have that edge even without private gyms, because they can have older fighters. Is it bad, I don't know, it's same thing in every game and in real life, when those older guys retire, then the newer fighters start dominate even younger etc.

 

If you couldn't have your own fighters in your gym, that wouldn't solve anything. Then two rich managers could make gyms for each other, and nothing would change (except it would need tiny bit more work).

 

I think one problem is that elite coaches are too cheap. Almost all gyms have elite coaches, there's really not big niche for gyms with less than elite coaches. But on the other hand, if elite coaches would be more expensive (and max fees raised), then the really rich managers could use their money making private gyms that have elite gyms, and poorer managers would be even worse gyms, so it actually wouldn't help at all. Unless elite coaches would be so expensive, that even the uber rich managers couldn't afford those gyms just for themselves...

 

One thing I can think of is that gyms couldn't run on too much negative profit, like first month or so they could run with max 10000 loss a week, and after that you would lose a vip or something. Then people could just shut down the gym and start a new, so there should be somekind of rule that you cannot start another gym in 3 months or something after closing down.

 

That'd be true if the new guy and the old guy were getting the same type of training. Older fighters are getting training that's so much better then the new guys that new guys can't catch up and even if they could that doesn't really fix anything.In real life it would but in the game once your big guy losses you can just go and create another fighter , put him in your exclusive elite gym and have him get a championship within like a game year and I have problem with that.

 

[VeikkoK]

That'd be true if the new guy and the old guy were getting the same type of training. Older fighters are getting training that's so much better then the new guys that new guys can't catch up and even if they could that doesn't really fix anything.In real life it would but in the game once your big guy losses you can just go and create another fighter , put him in your exclusive elite gym and have him get a championship within like a game year and I have problem with that.

 

That's true. So this is best option I can think of (and other people can of course think better):

 

1. Gyms can run on maximum loss of 10000$/week for the first month after they are created. (So new legit gyms can be created)

2. After the first month, gyms can run on maximum loss of 2000$/week.

3. If gym runs on too big loss, gym will be shut down.

4. If 3 happens, manager can't open another gym for a three months.

 

The times and moneys are arbitary, those should be though carefully.

 

This would still allow bit better exclusive gyms, but not 50$ 12 double-elite coach gyms for 10 people.

[Guest]

There are only two restrictions that should be placed on gyms:

 

1. After a specified time they shouldnt be allowed to operate at a loss. Doing so results in some sort of a penalty.

 

2. The gym has to be self sustaining. Meaning no funds coming from a second business.

 

[manaman]

Nearly everything suggested in this thread would kill my legitimate Gym, except for the minimum cap. I'm a newer manager who bought a year's VIP, did my research and waited for the new City, which was opened so the newer VIPs could open their businesses. Then, a lot of the old money came in and dominated the City

 

In any case, my business model was in place and I proceeded forward. Having to compete with the money backing my competition, I used my extra slots to create Sparring Dummies and am keeping class Sizes low. I'm diligently working, making logos, posters, writeups and such to get money to sustain my business and not raise Gym Fees.

 

When you're trying to "fix" exploits that others have found, please think of how it will affect the people who are trying to play inside the lines.

 

Good luck!

Mike

[Guest]

Jeez let this thread die before mike gets anymore crazy ideas like that minimum gym cap thing

this and this

 

Also

 

I would almost recommend a league-type structure, where people who have had all that very specialized training can fight amongst themselves in one league, and get all the "prestige" or whatever they're looking for by steamrolling people with lab-created beasts. Then a "minor-league" which contain the impoverished unwashed masses (like myself), kinda like how they had UFC/Pride, then IFL, then cagefights out back behind Crazy Bob's Barbeque and Package Liquor. How people would get divided into leagues I have no clue, nor do I know if each city would have league tiers or if, say, Vegas became big-boy land and developing fighters would be banished to Helsinki or, god-forbid, LA.

 

We already have this... It's called CFC and Syn vs almost every other org in the game. If you cant hang with the big boys because they get better training than you, then dont hang with the big boys BECAUSE they can get better training than you.

 

Can I afford private training for my fighters? Hell naw, but do I bitch and cry because I dont think its fair? EVEN MORE HELL NAW. I dont need to be the best in this game because its just as fun fighting in smaller orgs against guys closer to my caliber. Now let this thread die... the game already has a way to deal with differences in fighter level. It's called ORG RANKINGS

[Guest]

I think the problem isn't that the better people are getting better training.

 

But that the problem is a year from now most people will have their own private gym full of their fighters and elites.

And those who are simply rebuying ViP so they can experience what's definitely coming down the road at this rate, now. For six bucks a month.

[VeikkoK]

Good points. In case it is decided that the current system is too flawed (I personally have quite mixed feeling about it), corrections has to be made in a way that it doesn't hurt "normal" gyms. That's also a good point, that there's zillions of orgs, and newer players shouldn't even be competing in the largest/best orgs in a while. I have played this game for about two months, and I'm quite happy with my fighters being in a small "low-quality" orgs (sorry org owners ). When I feel that I have some fighter that could have somekind of change in bit bigger league, I'll try to get there, and then in bit better orgs and so on. So maybe after a year I could try to get one of my fighters to CFC or Sin or such. And in that time I'm hopefully rich too, and I can have my fighter in exclusive elite gym. ;D Like Luke said there's probably going to be lot more those kind of gym in the future. Will it affect much to "normal" gyms, maybe if the flow of new players will slow down much, but maybe not.