PPV Orgs Dropping Like Flies

[Icon73]

25 minutes ago, ArtieBanks said:

 

Part and parcel of playing the game. I didn't want him to lose because his skills were deteriorating. 

Why should a manager take the hit because an org owner thinks a fighter should still be fighting?  

I'd also like to put this in 

'People think we make money hand over fist even though most orgs lose money. So many other things to add but it would take too long.'

If a PPV org is losing money then you are doing it wrong. They are called money printers for a reason. 

Jug paid out possibly the most anyone ever did. He also went way overboard with signing bonuses, buying out other orgs and paid me about 2mil a month to work for him. He still made enough profit to run two private gyms and still have some left over. 

 

 

1. Mike tweaked formulas so PPV orgs sell less on average now, I we'll back and looked over old syn events to see their numbers only to see that we were using the same numbers. They just sell WAY more PPV's.

 

2. You sure he wasn't cheating and using glitch money?

[clydebankblitz]

The thing about PPV orgs printing money is that only lasts as long as the fighters do. You have a good generation one day, but in a month you could have a few guys go FA and picked up by CK or something. You could have fighters sent auto Bahamas. Some fighters could depop big. Maybe the game has a few less members. There's no guarantees. If PPV orgs were absolute guaranteed money printers, we wouldn't be posting in a thread called "PPV Orgs Dropping Like Flies".

[ArtieBanks]

33 minutes ago, Icon73 said:

1. Mike tweaked formulas so PPV orgs sell less on average now, I we'll back and looked over old syn events to see their numbers only to see that we were using the same numbers. They just sell WAY more PPV's.

 

2. You sure he wasn't cheating and using glitch money?

 

1. Explain Supernova XI? The reason you don't make the same numbers is DR. Jug never ran more than 2 a week because the DR was brutal. It is the difference between thriving and surviving. It isn't anything to do with Mike. 

2. I worked in the org - he used the same numbers I did. He also wasn't around when the money glitch was around. 

[ArtieBanks]

47 minutes ago, clydebankblitz said:

The thing about PPV orgs printing money is that only lasts as long as the fighters do. You have a good generation one day, but in a month you could have a few guys go FA and picked up by CK or something. You could have fighters sent auto Bahamas. Some fighters could depop big. Maybe the game has a few less members. There's no guarantees. If PPV orgs were absolute guaranteed money printers, we wouldn't be posting in a thread called "PPV Orgs Dropping Like Flies".

 

For you yes because you run in a niche market - we talked about it when I first turned your org into a money printer. The good thing about your business model is that it is a rinse and repeat kind of thing with the Island. 

The game probably does have a few less members but as far as PPV orgs go? Even in 2015 they were 5-6 orgs in the PPV range and one of them was always a niche org - QFC Toyko springs to mind as one of the first. 

Right now you have Syn, GAMMA, SFL, Combate (I assume he is going PPV), Odense is getting close, so is Hardcore and Sucker Punch might get there. You have the niche pick. The biggest hurdle is the accumulation of wealth in Syn. It has to be the most impressive roster ever in the game period. Evo when it first merged with Blitz NY even then only had the top 60/70. However, for one org to succeed like that then other orgs will suffer. 

 

[clydebankblitz]

6 minutes ago, ArtieBanks said:

 

For you yes because you run in a niche market - we talked about it when I first turned your org into a money printer. The good thing about your business model is that it is a rinse and repeat kind of thing with the Island. 

The game probably does have a few less members but as far as PPV orgs go? Even in 2015 they were 5-6 orgs in the PPV range and one of them was always a niche org - QFC Toyko springs to mind as one of the first. 

Right now you have Syn, GAMMA, SFL, Combate (I assume he is going PPV), Odense is getting close, so is Hardcore and Sucker Punch might get there. You have the niche pick. The biggest hurdle is the accumulation of wealth in Syn. It has to be the most impressive roster ever in the game period. Evo when it first merged with Blitz NY even then only had the top 60/70. However, for one org to succeed like that then other orgs will suffer. 

 

I'd actually say I'm the opposite. It's niche, so I don't have competition. As long as I can talk people into keeping their guys and I can make the org fun, I'm good.

But Odense, Hardcore, Sucker Punch etc. is that they really REALLY have to work their assess off to convince their guys "Look, I know Syn messaged you, and I know they're basically the UFC, and I know it's for more money......but, you know, please?".

Syn, GAMMA and SFL will absolutely be fine. Probably Combate I'd imagine too. But for everyone else, keeping your roster in tact long enough to be able to get to the same level as the others, without having a big turnover, I'd imagine is absolute hell.

(Also I mean, back in those days Highland Games had 3 events per week and 2 were in a 20k arena, it did generate a lot of money over time but not exactly the optimized solution haha). I'm pretty sure based on the old Highland Games model I'd lose money on the PPV but make it back on ticket sales on the 20k arenas.

[Icon73]

1 hour ago, ArtieBanks said:

 

1. Explain Supernova XI? The reason you don't make the same numbers is DR. Jug never ran more than 2 a week because the DR was brutal. It is the difference between thriving and surviving. It isn't anything to do with Mike. 

2. I worked in the org - he used the same numbers I did. He also wasn't around when the money glitch was around. 

1. I said the same thing but my alliance mates showed me screencaps of mike talking about tweaking it on the forums. Also I only run 2 shows a week mate. Only did 3 once. I do make money but not a money printer. Plus most of that just ends up going back into SB and arenas. SYN overall on the books has lost nearly 1 billion since its inception.

 

Also fighter hype was tweaked. Average hype for top fighters is lower than it used to be. The average syn event sells less because of this.

 

2. Okay fair enough, just needed to ask.

[10thPlanetKT]

14 hours ago, Icon73 said:

1. I said the same thing but my alliance mates showed me screencaps of mike talking about tweaking it on the forums. Also I only run 2 shows a week mate. Only did 3 once. I do make money but not a money printer. Plus most of that just ends up going back into SB and arenas. SYN overall on the books has lost nearly 1 billion since its inception.

 

Also fighter hype was tweaked. Average hype for top fighters is lower than it used to be. The average syn event sells less because of this.

 

2. Okay fair enough, just needed to ask.

One billion is an unfathomable amount to lose over the years. I hope more managers in your org see this and stop being ridiculous ?

Odense, Hardcore, and Suckerpunch have the talent to make it there on there own. They are starting to peak though so I hope they go ID soon. Between fighters retiring super early people ragequitting the game to a bad loss, poaching, it is indeed difficult to maintain a quality roster.

What about the more rare organizational positions in MMA Tycoon? Why aren't there more quality writers, posters, and graphic designers? I would like to know the software used to make those creative images. Also, I'd like to know the process of making a good writeup for an event preview and review/keeping activity high in the fight org tab. 

[Icon73]

36 minutes ago, 10thPlanetKT said:

One billion is an unfathomable amount to lose over the years. I hope more managers in your org see this and stop being ridiculous ?

Odense, Hardcore, and Suckerpunch have the talent to make it there on there own. They are starting to peak though so I hope they go ID soon. Between fighters retiring super early people ragequitting the game to a bad loss, poaching, it is indeed difficult to maintain a quality roster.

What about the more rare organizational positions in MMA Tycoon? Why aren't there more quality writers, posters, and graphic designers? I would like to know the software used to make those creative images. Also, I'd like to know the process of making a good writeup for an event preview and review/keeping activity high in the fight org tab. 

Odense is open ID. Also not many of those guys because money is pointless in this game so its not worth it for the amount of work it is.

[Rambo]

19 hours ago, clydebankblitz said:

You have a good generation one day, but in a month you could have a few guys go FA and picked up by CK or something. 

can't wait to pluck the top island fighters one by one and turn them into sparbots.

[clydebankblitz]

34 minutes ago, Rambo said:

can't wait to pluck the top island fighters one by one and turn them into sparbots.

The funny thing is, with so many of them that get retired I'd actually be fine with that haha. I'd be checking on them every day, even when they end up with 0 hype/pop, like "Some day, some day you'll return!". I'd have 0 fighters if it wasn't for being forced to pick people up pre-retirement.

[ArtieBanks]

On 9/21/2021 at 3:07 PM, 10thPlanetKT said:

One billion is an unfathomable amount to lose over the years. I hope more managers in your org see this and stop being ridiculous ?

Odense, Hardcore, and Suckerpunch have the talent to make it there on there own. They are starting to peak though so I hope they go ID soon. Between fighters retiring super early people ragequitting the game to a bad loss, poaching, it is indeed difficult to maintain a quality roster.

What about the more rare organizational positions in MMA Tycoon? Why aren't there more quality writers, posters, and graphic designers? I would like to know the software used to make those creative images. Also, I'd like to know the process of making a good writeup for an event preview and review/keeping activity high in the fight org tab. 

 

The simple answer is that it takes time and effort to do it with very little interactions - not enough people care about it anymore and I'd hazard a guess that those who do still write shit do it for themselves. The most popular software to use is Photoshop. 

There isn't really a set process. Most of the best stuff written wasn't event previews etc but rather character stuff and that is just the person being creative. 

[ArtieBanks]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:50 AM, Icon73 said:

1. I said the same thing but my alliance mates showed me screencaps of mike talking about tweaking it on the forums. Also I only run 2 shows a week mate. Only did 3 once. I do make money but not a money printer. Plus most of that just ends up going back into SB and arenas. SYN overall on the books has lost nearly 1 billion since its inception.

 

Also fighter hype was tweaked. Average hype for top fighters is lower than it used to be. The average syn event sells less because of this.

 

The average hype has probably fallen more because there is less players in the game. As far as I am aware and in talking to people there has been no changes to PPVs. Supernova XI kinda proved that along with your recent numbers. There is also something wrong with the books - I can't remember offhand but it doesn't calculate something which makes it look like massive losses (I think it might be withdraws that it counts which would mean Syn has made over 1bil which sounds about right). 

You have about 26mil in Arenas booked in advance plus whatever is hidden in the gym, jet or contract renegs. As I said it is a money printer however given the average age of the fighters i'd start to be getting a lil worried as cash would have to be splashed to sustain. 

[Icon73]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:19 AM, ArtieBanks said:

 

The average hype has probably fallen more because there is less players in the game. As far as I am aware and in talking to people there has been no changes to PPVs. Supernova XI kinda proved that along with your recent numbers. There is also something wrong with the books - I can't remember offhand but it doesn't calculate something which makes it look like massive losses (I think it might be withdraws that it counts which would mean Syn has made over 1bil which sounds about right). 

You have about 26mil in Arenas booked in advance plus whatever is hidden in the gym, jet or contract renegs. As I said it is a money printer however given the average age of the fighters i'd start to be getting a lil worried as cash would have to be splashed to sustain. 

I have no "hidden" money. Just about 7 million in savings (I bought off VIP exchange) and 1.5 in SB pending. Syn doesn't print money mate I can show you the financials. The average card sells less PPV weekly than it used to be like 50-100k. Also no, not counting withdrawals syn has lost money.

 

 

 

 

 

So just from event revenue you so syn would be 250M in profit. But the second you add signing bonuses in its 200M in the hole. Then add staff wages we sit at 223M in the hole.

 

Now what are most of the withdrawals used for? Direct signing bonuses to manager account.

 

Even if we only count 25% of the withdrawals which would be a huge undersell (total withdrawls is $717,933,366) thats adding another $179,483,341.5 in debts.

 

Totaling in

-$402,483,341.5

Thats hundreds of millions lost.

 

And this is a huge undersell BTW. I'd venture more than 50% of withdrawals are for signing bonuses.

 

EDIT: Proof I dont have hidden money.

 

 

 

 

[AlexManiatakos]

As a former owner of Syn ,i assure you that Syn is NOT a money printer.... I always had to infuse money from the VIP exchange to keep the ship running... Competition with other PPV orgs was very high though and we had to overpay.

My most optimistic prediction is that Syn breaks even at the end of every month...

[Icon73]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:19 AM, ArtieBanks said:

 

The average hype has probably fallen more because there is less players in the game. As far as I am aware and in talking to people there has been no changes to PPVs. Supernova XI kinda proved that along with your recent numbers. There is also something wrong with the books - I can't remember offhand but it doesn't calculate something which makes it look like massive losses (I think it might be withdraws that it counts which would mean Syn has made over 1bil which sounds about right). 

You have about 26mil in Arenas booked in advance plus whatever is hidden in the gym, jet or contract renegs. As I said it is a money printer however given the average age of the fighters i'd start to be getting a lil worried as cash would have to be splashed to sustain. 

BTW this is how Supernova did since you keep citing it. This is under chucks reign.

 

 

[ArtieBanks]

So Chuck pumped 12mil into the advertisements then for Supernova IV? Maybe more? 

I'll refer you back to this

'If a PPV org is losing money then you are doing it wrong. They are called money printers for a reason.'

 

I'll take Syn 832 as an example -

256,504 x 17.50 - PPV Sales 4,488,820 (profit)

Lets say ticket sales covered the cost of the arena. 

I'll say food and merch were at 200k or there abouts with no merch partner (it was probably higher). 

Now expenses 

We have 800k on fighters

Production - Depends on what you run - most run it at $2 per seat giving a total of say 200k for easy counting

Advertisements - I dunno what you run if it is the standard 1m or if you went up to 2m or 3m. I'll settle in the middle for 2m. 

200k on Cameras and Commentary

900k on the 3 hour PPV

 

It should leave you with around 500k-600k profit or there abouts. 

 

Now I haven't had a top fighter in some time - nor have I been in control of an org in 5 years. So I can't accurately attest to how much money top fighters command now a days. I know Jug used to pay on a 5 fight contract for a big name - usually around 1mil-1.5mil in total for the contract usually paid directly into the managers bank account. The competition was crazy at the time with 6 orgs all competing for fighters and as I said previously Jug had to pay more or rely on me calling in favours. If it has remained at that level then that is kinda on y'all. 

 

As far as the withdraws? Yeah i'd say that quite a bit of it goes on org expenses. You mainly count your 'earnings' once you sell on an org. You invest to make money but at the same time you make enough to support your VIP, private gym, whoever at the time was holding the gyms VIP and whatever other costs you incur (Mines was around 1mil per month but I was a greedy cbomb and had two private gyms). 

 

As I said up there - you have 26m in Arenas tied up. That is quite a chunk of change that you never need to think about. I don't like org owners claiming poverty when they are either lying or doing it wrong because ever since this game started the best way to make money was always owning an org (Also the most time consuming - so a tip of the hat to y'all who do it). 

 

 

 

 

 

[Icon73]

17 minutes ago, ArtieBanks said:

So Chuck pumped 12mil into the advertisements then for Supernova IV? Maybe more? 

I'll refer you back to this

'If a PPV org is losing money then you are doing it wrong. They are called money printers for a reason.'

 

I'll take Syn 832 as an example -

256,504 x 17.50 - PPV Sales 4,488,820 (profit)

Lets say ticket sales covered the cost of the arena. 

I'll say food and merch were at 200k or there abouts with no merch partner (it was probably higher). 

Now expenses 

We have 800k on fighters

Production - Depends on what you run - most run it at $2 per seat giving a total of say 200k for easy counting

Advertisements - I dunno what you run if it is the standard 1m or if you went up to 2m or 3m. I'll settle in the middle for 2m. 

200k on Cameras and Commentary

900k on the 3 hour PPV

 

It should leave you with around 500k-600k profit or there abouts. 

 

Now I haven't had a top fighter in some time - nor have I been in control of an org in 5 years. So I can't accurately attest to how much money top fighters command now a days. I know Jug used to pay on a 5 fight contract for a big name - usually around 1mil-1.5mil in total for the contract usually paid directly into the managers bank account. The competition was crazy at the time with 6 orgs all competing for fighters and as I said previously Jug had to pay more or rely on me calling in favours. If it has remained at that level then that is kinda on y'all. 

 

As far as the withdraws? Yeah i'd say that quite a bit of it goes on org expenses. You mainly count your 'earnings' once you sell on an org. You invest to make money but at the same time you make enough to support your VIP, private gym, whoever at the time was holding the gyms VIP and whatever other costs you incur (Mines was around 1mil per month but I was a greedy cbomb and had two private gyms). 

 

As I said up there - you have 26m in Arenas tied up. That is quite a chunk of change that you never need to think about. I don't like org owners claiming poverty when they are either lying or doing it wrong because ever since this game started the best way to make money was always owning an org (Also the most time consuming - so a tip of the hat to y'all who do it). 

 

 

 

 

 

So you just did all the math brother yet you don't see how I'm not making money. (You undershot on fighter pay but overshot on ads so it actually evened out to be right.)

Lets say 600k an event profit. Now double that for 2 events a week and thats 1.2 million

If I resign 2 good guys that weekend its probably around 500k each

Writer is 300k a writeup

Other staff is 75k a week

Then if I was to book new arenas 1.85 million per weekend.

 

Hell not even counting the other expenses I don't even make enough to cover new arena costs mate.

 

I don't make enough money to support my gym I sell 4 coaches.

 

I don't make enough money for VIP I buy that with my real money.

If anything happens to SYN RN I have all of 7M in disposable income and as I said I bought that money off the exchange as well as my alliance mate Shaun gave me 2.5 million. So outside of the bought and given money I had all of 500k in disposable income.

 

The thing that makes the most money in this game is graphics, avatars and writing. There is 0 overhead on these things. Its 100% profit.

[Icon73]

18 minutes ago, ArtieBanks said:

So Chuck pumped 12mil into the advertisements then for Supernova IV? Maybe more? 

I'll refer you back to this

'If a PPV org is losing money then you are doing it wrong. They are called money printers for a reason.'

 

I'll take Syn 832 as an example -

256,504 x 17.50 - PPV Sales 4,488,820 (profit)

Lets say ticket sales covered the cost of the arena. 

I'll say food and merch were at 200k or there abouts with no merch partner (it was probably higher). 

Now expenses 

We have 800k on fighters

Production - Depends on what you run - most run it at $2 per seat giving a total of say 200k for easy counting

Advertisements - I dunno what you run if it is the standard 1m or if you went up to 2m or 3m. I'll settle in the middle for 2m. 

200k on Cameras and Commentary

900k on the 3 hour PPV

 

It should leave you with around 500k-600k profit or there abouts. 

 

Now I haven't had a top fighter in some time - nor have I been in control of an org in 5 years. So I can't accurately attest to how much money top fighters command now a days. I know Jug used to pay on a 5 fight contract for a big name - usually around 1mil-1.5mil in total for the contract usually paid directly into the managers bank account. The competition was crazy at the time with 6 orgs all competing for fighters and as I said previously Jug had to pay more or rely on me calling in favours. If it has remained at that level then that is kinda on y'all. 

 

As far as the withdraws? Yeah i'd say that quite a bit of it goes on org expenses. You mainly count your 'earnings' once you sell on an org. You invest to make money but at the same time you make enough to support your VIP, private gym, whoever at the time was holding the gyms VIP and whatever other costs you incur (Mines was around 1mil per month but I was a greedy cbomb and had two private gyms). 

 

As I said up there - you have 26m in Arenas tied up. That is quite a chunk of change that you never need to think about. I don't like org owners claiming poverty when they are either lying or doing it wrong because ever since this game started the best way to make money was always owning an org (Also the most time consuming - so a tip of the hat to y'all who do it). 

 

 

 

 

 

Also you said Jug wasnt around for the money glitch but the money glitch was from 2010-2021 so its impossible he wasn't around for the glitch. Not saying its 100% he did it but I'd also venture its pretty likely he did. Just like old chuck

[Zello]

Bumfights boutta be the next great PPV org

[10thPlanetKT]

21 hours ago, AlexManiatakos said:

As a former owner of Syn ,i assure you that Syn is NOT a money printer.... I always had to infuse money from the VIP exchange to keep the ship running... Competition with other PPV orgs was very high though and we had to overpay.

My most optimistic prediction is that Syn breaks even at the end of every month...

So it is quite like the situation with OWN Championship in real life then correct? That negative cash flow amount of $960 million is beyond ridiculous. But I believe that with this post there will be more managers that are more reasonable in regards to contract negotiations. You can only burn through money like an oil funded soccer team for so long.

[Icon73]

21 hours ago, 10thPlanetKT said:

So it is quite like the situation with OWN Championship in real life then correct? That negative cash flow amount of $960 million is beyond ridiculous. But I believe that with this post there will be more managers that are more reasonable in regards to contract negotiations. You can only burn through money like an oil funded soccer team for so long.

I doubt it, mentor preciously outlined how we don't make the crazy money everyone thinks and nothing has changed in the 2 years since.

[DRussellMMA]

Good read through. Appreciate some of the Combate love in here! 

[10thPlanetKT]

Thanks to everyone who were involved in  this thread.  I think I have a much better idea on what the pros and cons of running a PPV org are. I think I will put my focus more towards graphics and writing then matchmaking and booking But if I do decide to stat an org, I will get two  more experienced players to help me.

[Rambo]

PPV orgs make plenty of money.

1 mil to 7 mil per event is more than enough money. Especially when you can run 2 events per week.

@Icon73 thinks he's Dana White. Wants all the lambo's.

[Mentor]

As i said a few years back, the profits of PPV orgs are seriously over estimated, i have been discussing this with various PPV owners over the years and i know there was a time when PPV orgs were averaging 1.5m-2m. But, inflation in salaries, the fact that there was some adjustment to the formula (plus the death of Tycoon tools, which helped calculate the hype) has changed the situation.

181,473

-215,979

557,120

196,663

578,524

Those are the profits in the past 5 events. We also have several fighters on 1/1/1 deals and if you take into consideration the sign on fees, i would say we are running about even. Rarely do we see profits over 1 million in an event, and i think we had maybe 3-4 cases we had over 2 million and that is in the past 12 years since. Also, we run just 1 event per week, if we were running 2, we would be running a deficit. 

I know some orgs are generating more than the above, we do not have many top 20 ranked fighters, so possibly Syn is in the 1m to 1.5m category per event. But they have arguably the best roster in Tycoon history at the moment.