List of Training Changes

[Guest]

I think this is almost way too much. I appreciate all this work but I think changes like this should be implemented one small step at a time. I already feel my Tycoon love dwindling and now everyone is expected to learn and understand how the game works all over again. I think this will push more people away from the game than draw them in.

 

There are reasons why the user base has been on a constant decline. The whole structure and mechanics of the game is forever changing. And the user base has been forever dropping. Maybe we should stop and have some stability? Sure, the passionate Tycoon veterans will adapt to these changes with no problem, but I'm afraid that it will stunt the growth and interest in the game.

 

Or are we at a point in the game where we've conceded that it's growth has stopped and are just trying to maintain the support of it's core followers (VIP Veterans)

 

No, you're expected to change how you train slightly because the old system was out of control. This system will make this game about actual MMA again, and thus draw in more players.

 

Yes, the game is broken. Changes are a vital part of MMOs, and if you're gonna stunt changes to maintain the current playerbase, the game will stagnate, both game-wise and community-wise. This will cause more people to leave and less people to stay long term.

 

No, but that seems to be what you're advocating. This change benefits new players the most.

[Face Kicker]

I think this is almost way too much. I appreciate all this work but I think changes like this should be implemented one small step at a time. I already feel my Tycoon love dwindling and now everyone is expected to learn and understand how the game works all over again. I think this will push more people away from the game than draw them in.

 

There are reasons why the user base has been on a constant decline. The whole structure and mechanics of the game is forever changing. And the user base has been forever dropping. Maybe we should stop and have some stability? Sure, the passionate Tycoon veterans will adapt to these changes with no problem, but I'm afraid that it will stunt the growth and interest in the game.

 

Or are we at a point in the game where we've conceded that it's growth has stopped and are just trying to maintain the support of it's core followers (VIP Veterans)

 

sometimes you gotta jump in feet first, instead of just dipping your toes in the water. how about you give things a chance before assuming it's going to be an epic failure? i don't think changes to the game are anywhere near the main reason that people don't stick around with the game, and i'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. these changes are the biggest thing to help noob managers that's been done for the game so far, at least since i joined anyway.

[Guest]

That makes no sense to me. The whole point of "max sparring partners" for lower level guys is training with people better than you. If there isn't anyone better than you, you can't train with someone better than you.... sooooooo....

i completely agree with this logic. 4 elite fighters sparring with one another are never going to improve as much as a young fighter will when he's sparring with fighters that are beyond his own skill level. elite fighters sparring together in real life are doing nothing more than what they'll be doing in this game. which is maintaining their skills and trying to stay sharp.....once again, i must say, very well thought out

 

 

 

[edit] im assuming that since sparring will be a little harder to get us to that elite point, that the "mellowness" in training at the higher levels will be enough to compensate for it and actually be able to obtain the variation in fighters that we all desire. otherwise, we COULD end up with the same "wall" that we have now. only in a different wardrobe

[DaveBarrera]

Since there are not a single change but a bunch of changes they need to be commented in two parts:

 

SPARRING AND COACHED TRAINING CHANGES:

 

This is the very best stuff added to the game in a long time. The game will become more strategic and not just a matter of how much you can throw into the laundry. Since the private gyms era started the game was a piece of cake for rich managers and was very hard for the rest. BEST CHANGE WITHOUT DOUBT.

 

SKILL MAINTENANCE AND DECREASING:

 

I agree with skill decreasing by age, otherway the fighters will last forever and the game become a little static.

 

I disagree with skill maintenance. I know is an step in the realistic way but when a game becomes pretty much realistic the fun can be pretty much spoiled. I think the ultrarealistic aproach is an step in the wrong way. We can stay very fine without the skill maintenance stuff and even more without the decreasing by injuries cause this is only an invitation to play the game in a defensive way triying to evade injuries for your fighters. How can you expect the managers risk his fighters to an early retirement playing hard bouts?

 

DECREASING BY AGE: YES

 

SKILL MAINTENANCE AND DECREASING BY INJURIES: NO. REALISTIC BUT PRETTY MUCH BOTHERING AND FUN SPOILING STUFF.

 

Another reason to cut the DECREASING BY INJURIES CHANGES:

 

The way the game engine is calculating the injuries sucks. You can think about a lot of your own fighters having and winning an easy fight. Then you see your fighter page and you realize your fighter have a hard injury and you says WTF? How my fighter is injured if his foe almost never touched him? Is a fist injury because my fighter was beating to hard the face of the other guy? You fellows know this is true. Tonight one of my guys fought and was almost untouched by his foe. It was a very easy win but still my fighter earned a 12 days injury. How can a good fighter last in the game if the engine is calculating injuries in such a happy way?

[Guest]

Since there are not a single change but a bunch of changes they need to be commented in two parts:

 

SPARRING AND COACHED TRAINING CHANGES:

 

This is the very best stuff added to the game in a long time. The game will become more strategic and not just a matter of how much you can throw into the laundry. Since the private gyms era started the game was a piece of cake for rich managers and was very hard for the rest. BEST CHANGE WITHOUT DOUBT.

 

SKILL MAINTENANCE AND DECREASING:

 

I agree with skill decreasing by age, otherway the fighters will last forever and the game become a little static.

 

I disagree with skill maintenance. I know is an step in the realistic way but when a game becomes pretty much realistic the fun can be pretty much spoiled. I think the ultrarealistic aproach is an step in the wrong way. We can stay very fine without the skill maintenance stuff and even more without the decreasing by injuries cause this is only an invitation to play the game in a defensive way triying to evade injuries for your fighters. How can you expect the managers risk his fighters to an early retirement playing hard bouts?

 

DECREASING BY AGE: YES

 

SKILL MAINTENANCE AND DECREASING BY INJURIES: NO. REALISTIC BUT PRETTY MUCH BOTHERING AND FUN SPOILING STUFF.

 

Another reason to cut the DECREASING BY INJURIES CHANGES:

 

The way the game engine is calculating the injuries sucks. You can think about a lot of your own fighters having and winning an easy fight. Then you see your fighter page and you realize your fighter have a hard injury and you says WTF? How my fighter is injured if his foe almost never touched him? Is a fist injury because my fighter was beating to hard the face of the other guy? You fellows know this is true. Tonight one of my guys fought and was almost untouched by his foe. It was a very easy win but still my fighter earned a 12 days injury. How can a good fighter last in the game if the engine is calculating injuries in such a happy way?

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. This is my feelings 100%. I just dont like the Maintenance. It is realistic. But that is the part of real life that people hate. The constant dedicated and hard work is why everyone wants to be a pro athlete but fe are. Its to much of a hassle. What causes them to quit sports and be arm chair QB's will cause them to quit this game. Not everything about Real life is fun. This is one of them. The only change i dont like that can make this game start to get old fast. Although i dont mind the injury decline even though i will be screwed with many of my fighters! lol

[Guest]

Wiki

 

Sparring one on one with an elite fighter is great but it’s not as good as sparring with 4 elite fighters. We’ve introduced a sparring group size factor so that sparring in groups of less than 5 total (including your own fighter), is less effective. Sparring with just 1 other fighter of the same skill will be 12% less effective than sparring with 4 other fighters of the same skill

 

When sparring in groups of 10 or more, the session will be automatically split up so that people spar with fighters closest to their own skill level (based on the new “sparring value”).

 

My question is that, from the wiki 4 elite sparring partners is more effective than one elite sparring partner. Would it be more effective to spar with 4 elite sparring partners, or 9 elite sparring partners?

[PBR]

My question is that, from the wiki 4 elite sparring partners is more effective than one elite sparring partner. Would it be more effective to spar with 4 elite sparring partners, or 9 elite sparring partners?

the more partners around or above your skill level the better

[Guest]

Non age-related

 

In order to maintain your skills, you have to keep training them. The amount you have to train them in order to prevent any skill decrease will depend on a number of factors;

 

1. The current level of the skill you want to maintain. The higher your skill in boxing / punches / agility etc, the harder it will be to maintain that skill.

 

2. Opposing skills. We view certain skills as opposing each other. For instance, having a high level of BJJ and Wrestling will make it harder to maintain a high level in Boxing or Muay Thai. However, having a high Muay Thai skill will not negatively affect your ability to maintain a high skill in Boxing. This applies to physical, primary and secondary skills. This effect only kicks in at a certain point and does not have any impact on the low to mid-levels. Opposing skills don't mean you can't maintain stranger fighter builds, it just means it takes a bit more work.

 

3. Primaries helping secondaries. If you have a high primary skill, that will make it easier to maintain a high secondary skill. So if you have high Boxing, that makes it easier to maintain a high punches value. Conversely, if you have high submission defense but low BJJ, that will be harder to maintain, until you increase your BJJ level.

How it works

 

For each skill you will have a ticker, effectively logging how long it is since you trained that particular skill. Each time you rest or train something unrelated to that skill, that ticker will go upwards by X points. X will vary depending on the skill and type of training. Training something completely unrelated will mean a high value for X whilst training something slightly related will mean a low value for X. When you reach a certain trigger point, the decreases will start to kick in. The trigger point varies depending on points 1-3 above. In order to prevent skill decreases, or to stop them once they have started, you need to train that skill OR something which is related to that skill. For instance, if your “punches” skill has started to decrease, you can stop (or at least slow) these decreases by training punches, Boxing or Muay Thai. Training punches directly will bring down the ticker by more points than either Boxing or Muay Thai.

 

This sounds good. Because it may help the poorer managers or new managers and their fighters. It just sounds like what people were doing with a poor man's project fighter, which was a lot of sparring and strength and conditioning.

 

However, the high defenses may become a bit wasteful now, but I'm sure everyone here will be able to adapt. There will just be a new type of project fighter to exploit in the system when found.

[Guest]

I don't know why people are complaining about the decrease in skills due to injury. Mike has already stated that you wont really see a decrease until you have 300 days worth of injurys, which you wont be able to get until you've had at least 19 fights and suffered 16 days worth of injury after every one of those fights. And with Mike working on introducing Doctors at some point to reduce the effect and length of injurys and cuts it will take even longer to see a decrease.

[Face Kicker]

I don't know why people are complaining about the decrease in skills due to injury. Mike has already stated that you wont really see a decrease until you have 300 days worth of injurys, which you wont be able to get until you've had at least 19 fights and suffered 16 days worth of injury after every one of those fights. And with Mike working on introducing Doctors at some point to reduce the effect and length of injurys and cuts it will take even longer to see a decrease.

 

people always complain about things before they actually happen, and often find out there was no reason to complain.

 

it's like a kid that says they hate strawberries, but have never even eaten one. then they try one and can't get enough.

[Goatacre]

the more partners around or above your skill level the better

 

Is that the case, though? i.e. that more partners (assuming all other variables unchanged) is always beneficial? It doesn't seem to fit with the idea of the split sparring classes where just the top 5 fighters (if the class size is greater than 10) go off to spar in a separate group. From this I would infer that, all other things being equal, the gains from sparring will max out once you have 5 fighters sparring.

[Goatacre]

The way the game engine is calculating the injuries sucks. You can think about a lot of your own fighters having and winning an easy fight. Then you see your fighter page and you realize your fighter have a hard injury and you says WTF? How my fighter is injured if his foe almost never touched him? Is a fist injury because my fighter was beating to hard the face of the other guy? You fellows know this is true. Tonight one of my guys fought and was almost untouched by his foe. It was a very easy win but still my fighter earned a 12 days injury. How can a good fighter last in the game if the engine is calculating injuries in such a happy way?

 

As others have already said, even without the planned introduction of doctors/physios, etc, it would take 19 fights of max 16 days injury before it even begins to take any effect, which is quite a decent career really.

 

Regardless, there is a way to help protect yourself against this - select the hidden at creation to boost your protection against injuries! Except, of course, you won't because you value the other hiddens more highly than this one (and most, if not all, would agree with you at the moment). It just makes no sense to complain against something that you have opportunity to protect yourself against.

[Guest]

I really didn't have too much time to read all this again but since I'm pretty addicted to this game and would like to understant its mechanics, I would like to ask a few question for people who sacrificed their time to go through this whole thread.

 

The aspect that confuses me most is the sparring changes. On the one hand we know that your partner has to be only 20% better than you are to get most benefit, but on the other hand we have info that groups of 5 sparringpartners are the best. All the more those sparring value stars will soon play a big role in all this. If anyone has time, please, confirm or deny the following sentences, so that I, and maybe some others, could grasp it better.

 

1) I want to improve Boxing for a Useless boxer. The best idea to do so is to spar with 4 other fighters who are at least 20% higher in boxing.

2) The number of sparring value stars of these 4 above mentioned fighters still plays a big role because it represents their current (taking into consideration morale, energy etc.) sparring value.

3) "20% above your skill" rule is generally more important than "spar value stars" rule. Means if you're useless boxer and may spar with only one fighter, it is better to spar with a remarkable boxer with 2 stars, than with a strong boxer with 3 stars.

[Eveas]

1) If you are in a 12 man spar group and the bottom 9 make one group while the top 3 make another as you mentioned will the top guys then get lesser sparring for not having 5 guys in their group?

2) How far back will you look for injuries that have already happened, because most fighters didn't get the low injury hidden due to the way the game worked at the time. So, by changing the rules on them many are already hitting close to that 300 I would assume. We already have guys with way more than 19 fights and I have some who get 16 day injuries when their opponent didn't even land a single attack. Can we at least make it so you have to get attacked to get injured?

[Dee]

I think the ultrarealistic aproach is an step in the wrong way. We can stay very fine without the skill maintenance stuff and even more without the decreasing by injuries cause this is only an invitation to play the game in a defensive way triying to evade injuries for your fighters.

100% agreed!

 

If the "decreasing by injuries" is implemented I really hope the injury-system is going to be tweaked aswell.

[MMATycoon]

Just one point to the people who keep saying "I don't like maintenance", nobody came up with a better idea in the full two years that training changes have been discussed. Everyone had the opportunity to come up with something better. If it was indeed better, I would have done it instead. The only other suggestions were flat total skill caps and leaving it as it is, neither of which are better.

 

revian:

1. yes.

2. yes.

3. just look at the star - it doesn't matter what their primary in boxing is.

 

Goatacre:

I actually said 300 days injury was 1 full point off your trigger, not that it takes 300 days injury before there is any effect. If you had 30 days injury that would be 0.1 points off your trigger. In general I don't mind people disliking or discussing that part of the changes but see how you get on with it - it's a very easy thing for me to change if people don't think it's working.

[Guest]

Two more questions I forgot to ask:

 

4) You have Exceptional Boxer and want to train his boxing up. You don't have any 20% more skilled boxers though but you have 4 Wonderful ones. The most efficient way to train this Exceptional boxer is to arrange sparrings with those 4 Wonderful (in group of 5) instead of training 1v1 with 1 Wonderful.

5) Situation as above but instead of 4 Wonderful boxers you have 1 Wonderful, 1 Remarkable, 1 Superb and 1 Strong. In that case the best solution to train your Exceptional boxer up is to train in a group of 3 (your Exceptional guy + 1 Wonderful + 1 Remarkable).

 

False or true?

 

EDIT: Thanks for answering those 3, Mike.

[Grasman]

Is joining a large sparring group consisting of fighters with a wide array of rating from 1-15, going to be "luck of the draw"?

 

What i mean is, if the fighters are split up in groups, could you consistently have your "proficient--" fighter end up in a group where he is the strongest fighter in the group, therefore learning a lot less than he would if he was the crappiest fighter in another group?

 

Basically, the bigger the group the higher the risk of ending up as the groups top rated fighter?

 

Or is this going to be the "virtual value" of his closest peers, so he never ends up as either the top or the bottom fighter?

 

Please explain.

I would like to get the above clarified please.

[Goatacre]

Goatacre:

I actually said 300 days injury was 1 full point off your trigger, not that it takes 300 days injury before there is any effect. If you had 30 days injury that would be 0.1 points off your trigger. In general I don't mind people disliking or discussing that part of the changes but see how you get on with it - it's a very easy thing for me to change if people don't think it's working.

 

Fair enough, I must have misread. Either way I'm not fussed about the change, and think it is a good thing to introduce

[Goatacre]

1) If you are in a 12 man spar group and the bottom 9 make one group while the top 3 make another as you mentioned will the top guys then get lesser sparring for not having 5 guys in their group?

 

I think you've slipped into the mistake I made when I first read it. If, say, there are 12 fighters sparring, then I believe they split into two groups - one of the top 5 fighters, and another of the 7 worst for that discipline. Therefore no penalty for the top guys as they're automatically in a group of 5 fighters.

 

This is also why I assume that it is in a group of 5 that the potential for sparring gains max out (i.e. that 6 elites training together would not be any better than 5 elites).

[MMATycoon]

Grasman, Yes you can be the best fighter in the group. No it isn't the closest peers because that is impossible to calculate. That was the way I wanted to do it but if you take an example of 10 fighters like this;

 

A - trains with B,C,D,E

B - trains with A,C,D,E

C - trains with A,B,D,E

D - trains with B,C,E,F

E - trains with C,D,F,G

F - trains with D,E,G,H

G - trains with E,F,H,I

H - trains with F,G,I,J

I - trains with F,G,H,J

J - trains with F,G,H,I

 

As you'll see if you count up the letters, some fighters train with more people than others. Whilst for example I trains with F even though F doesn't train with I.

[Goatacre]

Mike - I just had a thought, what happens with NC with regards to the tickers?

 

I can see pros and cons to the idea of a NC still resetting all of the tickers...

[MMATycoon]

Yeah there are pros and cons like you say... At the moment the tickers don't reset but I hadn't decided properly on that. Maybe we can half them.

[Goatacre]

Yeah there are pros and cons like you say... At the moment the tickers don't reset but I hadn't decided properly on that. Maybe we can half them.

 

Yeah, unless the system is able to intelligently distinguish between different cases of NCs and who causes them I think this will always be one aspect that will be impossible to get entirely right and fair. Probably just need to make a call either way (like you have for now, that they won't reset) and see how it goes.

[Guest]

the more partners around or above your skill level the better

 

So sparring with 9 other sparring partners is the most effective? I know as long as the star level is 20% better than your fighter, is good enough.