Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think Mike mentioned somewhere that he's going on holiday so I assume we will wait a few more days for the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 i hardly ever go full counter counter except in extreme circumstances, im usually around the middle of the counter area of the slide and it works fairly well for me, however, considering how many posts there has been on this it probably needs some attention and will probably be fixed with a week or o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've been reading a lot about this super high counter/acc imbalance lately and as I have a couple of stand up fighters doing fairly well myself it's definitely interesting. However I'm very rarely using more than maybe 70-80% counter in extreme cases, and not even that much in accuracy. I'd say I'm doing fairly well but are you saying I'd do even better with 95% counter and acc?? I've been in this game for really long and never read much what other people do with sliders up until lately and I didn't even realize this was a problem until I saw how many people complained about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 does anybody have any fights they can post where they used 100% counter? maybe post what your accuracy was as well that might help shed some light on the situation for mike tycoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigoMachado Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Another, SOMEWHAT related bit, is that shorter fighters should be able to deal with a big reachy counterstriker quite well once they "get inside" of his reach. See : Aerts/Schilt, many boxers, people who fight Stefan Struve. Mike Tysoon too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm kinda wondering at what level this becomes a problem. I'm a veteran and ranked fairly high but can't say I've been screwed by this. Although none of my top ranked fighters at the moment are strikers. All guys having strikers at the top seem to be talking about it though. But, question, if you go 90% counter, you don't get moves per round do you? But you are saying its still worth it? I've had fighters with average or low confidence doing NOTHING when having high counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 still nobody with 100% counter examples? i'd like to prove a point everybody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 In my last fight my opponent went 90%/90% as far as I know - it's not 100% though. Anyway, I went 65% counter and the same accuracy. We were very even in the primaries (at the time of the fight I had better MT and Wrestling), while I believe I had quite an advantage in physicals (unless my opponent has more than 86% in them which I doubt but who knows). http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=334198 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis84 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 still nobody with 100% counter examples? i'd like to prove a point everybody Here you are: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=307476 I am the one on the receving end of the counter attack. I was set at something like 65% Agrression and 60% Damage and in a thread I started about the epicness of the loss the guy who's fighter it was said he was scared I would take him down so went 100% counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigoMachado Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I started to notice that the higher the counter, the better defence against everything, even before those threads. I don't think it shoud be just "nerfed" though, it wouldn't change shit. I think the concept of counter must change, or depth must be added to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 still nobody with 100% counter examples? i'd like to prove a point everybody lol...i bet no one wants to show any examples becuz no one wants to give anything away or admit that they've done it. i have used it. i never had any clue that people were doing this until i saw a thread by ckris karter. to me, 80% was prolly the max and that was only against certain types of fighters. i was always scared of "standing like a punching bag"...turns out, after using this 3 times, i couldn't have been farther off. i'm actually amazed at how well it works and agree with the people here that it is way overpowered. sure, it should still be viable no matter what, and in no way rendered useless, but the way it is now?...no way. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=338155 http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=332273 http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=323740 i usually don't like to give up slider info but fuck it...none of these are anywhere near 100%accuracy. in fact, all of them are well into the damage side of the slider. an issue i used to have was landing punches when deep in the damage side of the slider, even with elite boxers (obv sec and pri at high levels too) and started dipping into the accuracy side a bit more, altho the highest acc i've ever used is right in the 70-72% range. it always bothered me that my top level guys couldn't land anything with any damage. i attributed it to high strike d and agility at the elite comp levels of the game. now, i think it may be due to just straight up being out countered. counter strikes land at a way higher percentage than normal strikes...it's nuts. counter takedowns are as well. now...in real life, it works this way too. the hardest strike to defend is the one you don't see coming, BUT it doesn't happen with the ease or at the rate of which it does currently in the game. if you don't read those fights and just look at the stats, you would think i was at 100%acc too. as i said before, not the case here and i was amazed to see the thrown/landed percentage. i have never connected that well with my guys at that level of damage slider. had i known that a long time ago, i would have way more ko's than decisions lool. i see a lot of people doing the "gentlemen's agreements" lately. good idea. we all know mike t is hard at work, and we all want it to be fixed RIGHT not FAST, so in the meantime, if you choose to and if you trust them...pm your opp, agree to a certain level. i don't think anyone will consider it fight fixing altho it does open the door to a bit of distrust. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeikkoK Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Just wondering, should the slider be more like aggressive-defensive, and the whole countering part be separated somehow? Another thing, currently you can counter everything with everything, if I'm not mistaken, is that possible or realistic in real life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Sure, but probably no to the extent you can in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 IMO countering should be less and less effective when fight goes on. Its like in real life. If you see that someone is just countering you should be able to take advantage on that. Another solution could be that you shouldnt win fight with dec when you are just countering with high accuracy. That would force counter fighters to set sliders to more damage. IMO countering is ok when you will counter with big bombs and try to KO. look at the fight imperial stats http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=326406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 look at the fight imperial stats http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=326406 all it shows me is an ad for FreeScore.com lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 In terms of countering with high accuracy I think a possible solution should be that a very high accuracy counter wouldn't actually stop the initial attack from the other fighter. In reality if I am swinging at you and you counter with a tap to the face it isn't going to stop my momentum. The counter needs to have a decent amount of force to put me off my game. Whether the counter stopped the initial blow could be based on both the chin of the initiating fighter and the power behind the initial blow (i.e. the momentum behine the swing). So High Agression + High Power > High Couter + Low Power (because even though they land the counter it doesn't hurt and you still get you strike off) High Agression + Low Power < High Counter + Low Power (because you didn't put much behind your initial strike and the counter is enough to put you off) High Agression + Low Power > High Counter + High Power (because you're throwing a quick strike with not much power that doesn't leave much window to throw a counter) High Agression + High Power < High Counter + High Power (there is a biig enough window to counter and the counter strike is hard enough to stop you in your tracks) Obviously attributes etc would impact on this but something like this would seem to make any combination a viable strategy. Of course you could always play it safe and go somewhere in the middle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I just lost a fight due to being "too aggressive" at 95 counter. I've been more than patient. Not going to threaten to leave or anything, but I do hope this gets fixed soon so this shit doesn't have to keep happening. yeah me too..... should have gone 100%. damn. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentarypbp.php?FTID=341896 an awesome fight. 2 guys standing there throwing 2 or 3 100% accuracy strikes per minute. wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 In terms of countering with high accuracy I think a possible solution should be that a very high accuracy counter wouldn't actually stop the initial attack from the other fighter. In reality if I am swinging at you and you counter with a tap to the face it isn't going to stop my momentum. The counter needs to have a decent amount of force to put me off my game. Whether the counter stopped the initial blow could be based on both the chin of the initiating fighter and the power behind the initial blow (i.e. the momentum behine the swing). So High Agression + High Power > High Couter + Low Power (because even though they land the counter it doesn't hurt and you still get you strike off) High Agression + Low Power < High Counter + Low Power (because you didn't put much behind your initial strike and the counter is enough to put you off) High Agression + Low Power > High Counter + High Power (because you're throwing a quick strike with not much power that doesn't leave much window to throw a counter) High Agression + High Power < High Counter + High Power (there is a biig enough window to counter and the counter strike is hard enough to stop you in your tracks) Obviously attributes etc would impact on this but something like this would seem to make any combination a viable strategy. Of course you could always play it safe and go somewhere in the middle. This also goes along with the idea of PUNCH EXCHANGES. It's not always A guy misses.... The other guy counters..... Sometimes it is A guy misses.... the other guy counters and lands a combo... but the guy keeps coming and lands a punch of his own... This would add some credibility to the power setting. You could make a slugger who was willing to take a punch or two to land some big blows. and I don't think I have ever seen a counter miss either. Which is silly. That is a real problem. If you can't hurt me why am I not just eventually going to say screw it and just maul you? I have guys with 15+ strength, Granite Chins and KO power getting countered to death for 200-300 strikes until somewhere in the 3rd round they get "winded" and lose a decision. This is getting out of hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Sometimes I wonder why the slider is single shots-combos anyhow. Combos aren't some kind of huge power move in real life, it's thowing punches in bunches to set up hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 does anybody have any fights they can post where they used 100% counter? maybe post what your accuracy was as well that might help shed some light on the situation for mike tycoon BEEN DONE 1000% TIMES. Here are two. The first by my alliance mate, and the second I heard through the grapevine. The 3rd one was me. Each one is 100% counter/100% accuracy. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=315373 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=300329 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=336104 Note the incredibly absurd Head punch: 108 (102) Body punch: 78 (70) Head punch: 195 (195) Body punch: 165 (163) in the first two fights. You have to be fucking clueless to try to claim that 195/195 counter head punches is somehow realistic, working as intended or at all good for the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 i wonder how in the heck i ever win a fight then --- never have gone 100 counter -- have never went above 80 counter -- i know it needs some tweaking but blaming every fight you lose on 100 counter is pretty silly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 While I'm sure the issue with the counter/accuracy problem, and you are blind if you don't think this is a problem, is I can't help but feel it is the modern day version of the sub spam era. I can't help but think what the next slider combo will be that drives some of us up the wall. Maybe I'm just not cut for games like these. I play in a few other browser based games and want them to be as close to the real life version of whatever it is that I ignore the fact that it is a different beast. So while in my head I want an aggressive fighter who throws power behind their blows no matter how bad a strategy currently I'll keep trying to push the square peg through the round hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 i wonder how in the heck i ever win a fight then --- never have gone 100 counter -- have never went above 80 counter -- i know it needs some tweaking but blaming every fight you lose on 100 counter is pretty silly It's only really become a problem the last 2 months or so as the strategy exploded in popularity. Most fights are still perfectly winnable without doing it but in some cases you are are at a serious disadvantage (you could still win obviously) if you don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 and I don't think I have ever seen a counter miss either. Which is silly. This is because a missed counter is not shown. If you read fighter A misses his attack on fighter B and there's no counter on the next line. It might be that fighter B didn't counter or it might be that fighter B missed his counter. I see this a lot when writing for orgs, in which fighter A misses a lot of strikes but fighter B doesn't get to counter and fighter B doesn't initiate too much either so he is obviously on counter. Another thing is that 100% accuracy makes you feel like your opponent is countering every hit without a miss because it's just that darn easy to counter with 100% accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 and I don't think I have ever seen a counter miss either. Which is silly. like told android17 : "This is because a missed counter is not shown" seriously this is the basics i knew it when i had 2 months in this game, i understand now why you was upset about the counter/agresion . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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