Ticker Replacements

[MMATycoon]

I dont agree with it. It is a game. Everyone agrees that no one should be 100% That is fine. But it is still a game, and like it or not, it doesnt work without players. If the change makes a bunch of people quit AGAIN then its a pointless change. I dont have an issue with anything in the game right now BUT the tickers. Eliminate them and Im cool with it as is.

 

As far as new people, again I say speed up training or something. Most of us help new people out anyway possible. Ive gievn thousands to noobs who needed it, and there was even a noob fund that Bo ran. There are plenty of chances for noobs ot play at a pretty fair level, but no mateer what its oging to take some time. If you drop it to 80% its still going to take noobs a shit load of time to catch up. 10% isnt going to change that much.

 

As far variation, the only chance for that is speed up training. Ground game takes longer to build, and doesnt work as effectively as the stand up. That is why people make strikers. To make a good striker all you need is an offensive skill, STR D, TDD, and clinch. There arent enough grapplers to concern yourself with grappling D. That is why many of the guys Ive picked up on FA only have rem or better grap d. Witgh ground guys you need TDs, Grap D, Str D, Clinch, and at least one offensive ground skill. PLus to make it work you usually need one striking skill to use to work energy on a guy to get a TD. That is 4-5 essential skills for strikers and 6-7 for ground guys.

Sorry but that didn't explain anything or give any alternative with any explanation, you just said "I don't agree". How is a game where all the top fighters are the same any good?

 

We're net losing about 20 people a day anyway, mostly because of the current training system, so I am not going to go "argh, I can't change anything because people might leave!" then not change that system and steadily let people drift away and dwindle. Something has to change so if it's not this, come up with a better idea. The longer it's left as it is, the worse the situation gets so that's why I wanted to push on and sort this out now.

[PBR]

I think the issue with tickers at that time was people felt there was nothing they could do to control them. I know that every Monday seeing those streaks of red staring me in the face can often be a demotivating factor. With my idea people would be in direct control. Imagine something similar to UFC3. I train my bottom game and subs goes up a little, but I take a bigger hit to top control. The higher my skill level the bigger the hit. I don't think I remember much whining about UFC3, because you knew there was a direct correlation where your own actions picked which stats moved up and which went down. You lose the nasty visual of all the red bars, and eventually age and injuries are going to have to start making stats go down whether we like it or not. So, it will always be a drawn out process at some point unless you want 100 year old fighters competing with the young guys. Using the 80% as the point where losses are greater than gains makes us all eventually move into your cap where if we dip too low then gains become greater than losses so we don't go any lower until we get too old.

 

i think its just the opposite -- with the ticker system you had some control over it -- with this system you have no control -- your gonna decline period no matter what you do -- which is a good thing though

 

on fighters below 80% getting nerfed -- its only fair to do really -- there is a fighter at 90% should he still not hold advantage anymore and be zapped down to 80% being equal with the 80% guys overnight? -- not really -- and being a sliding scale its not gonna be a full 10% hit but the 90% should still have some skill advantage -- though he will be stuck there at 80% and others can and will catch him now over time

 

actually think it should be lower than 80% -- or if a hidden will determine it would like to see 80% tops and lower from there say 75% being lowest or 70 something

[MMATycoon]

I think the issue with tickers at that time was people felt there was nothing they could do to control them. I know that every Monday seeing those streaks of red staring me in the face can often be a demotivating factor. With my idea people would be in direct control. Imagine something similar to UFC3. I train my bottom game and subs goes up a little, but I take a bigger hit to top control. The higher my skill level the bigger the hit. I don't think I remember much whining about UFC3, because you knew there was a direct correlation where your own actions picked which stats moved up and which went down. You lose the nasty visual of all the red bars, and eventually age and injuries are going to have to start making stats go down whether we like it or not. So, it will always be a drawn out process at some point unless you want 100 year old fighters competing with the young guys. Using the 80% as the point where losses are greater than gains makes us all eventually move into your cap where if we dip too low then gains become greater than losses so we don't go any lower until we get too old.

That's exactly what the sytem would be, once it's properly in place. I don't see a way to get from current stats to the new, workable model, other than a skills squeeze or adding a couple more skill levels. If there is a way, great, I'll do it.

[DavyJones]

No long term good. Basically punished for giving a damn about your fighters IMO. They are no advantages or disadvantages it just feels as if being punished for knowing how to deal with tickers and not complaining about them. I created my guys some of them a year ago when i joined the game. After a year of training them and looking after them i see the fruits of my labour basically nerf'd sucks. As i have said previously this is something that if it was to happen should have been done day 1 when the game was created not 3 years down the line when people have put in a lot of time and effort into a game that is slow paced as it is.

 

How are you being punished? It's only psychological because all that is really happening is numbers are being squeezed down and its game wide, not just your fighters. Mike might have to just add a couple more skill levels instead because some people just cant seem to grasp that.

[MMATycoon]

No long term good. Basically punished for giving a damn about your fighters IMO. They are no advantages or disadvantages it just feels as if being punished for knowing how to deal with tickers and not complaining about them. I created my guys some of them a year ago when i joined the game. After a year of training them and looking after them i see the fruits of my labour basically nerf'd sucks. As i have said previously this is something that if it was to happen should have been done day 1 when the game was created not 3 years down the line when people have put in a lot of time and effort into a game that is slow paced as it is.

I would say that I do apologise to anyone and everyone, moreso to the people who have reached the highest level. I appreciate very much the effort that's gone into creating and developing all fighters. I would love to be able to have no negative impact of anything.

 

However, the current system is unworkable and really pretty stupid. There is no point having fighters who are 90% across the board because it's boring. Training that way is boring. Fighting and gameplanning that way is boring. I was hoping to never get fighters to this level as I always thought it was a stupid concept. Unfortunately after having to downgrade tickers to be less annoying for people, we got there anyway and now it's a problem we need to solve rather than a problem we need to prevent. (N.B. when tickers started I think the highest skilled fighter was about 83% across the board average).

 

So something has to chance to make the game a better game. It's unfortunate that I had to take 3-4 months off the game in terms of proper development whilst I moved house, as I would have liked to sort this a while back. But now I have got the time and energy to fix a problem and it's a problem that does need fixing.

[MMATycoon]

I think I'd like people to ask themselves a couple of questions;

 

- Do I enjoy training?

- Do I enjoy fight planning?

 

If the answer is yes then great but is there anything about those aspects of the game that you think could be improved?

 

Would improving those things not counteract the one time feeling of being jipped of some imaginary words that represent a hidden skill value? I mean, does having the word elite written instead of the word sensational mean more to you than enjoying playing the actual fighting part of the game?

 

I think having a sensible skill cap around 78-82% makes the game more of a challenge in terms of having to gameplan, try new things out, mix things up. In short, more rewarding. I would hope people would get more out of managing to be at the top of that sort of game, rather than one where you can just train a guy.... then keep training him.... then keep training him.... then he's eventually pretty much amazing in everything and that's it; you're as good as you can be and there's not a lot else to do apart from micro-manage training so that he stays exactly the same. Sounds boring as hell to me and too much like a button clicking game you get on Facebook where you have to sew seeds then come back in precisely 17 minutes to pick the crop and just do the same mouse clicking again for the next 17 minutes.

[DavyJones]

I mean, does having the word elite written instead of the word sensational mean more to you than enjoying playing the actual fighting part of the game?

 

Yeah my thoughts exactly and it was a point I was trying to make earlier, you just have a much better way of putting it to words

[ArtieBanks]

How are you being punished? It's only psychological because all that is really happening is numbers are being squeezed down and its game wide, not just your fighters.

 

Because it is still my fighters that get nerf'd also. I have never once complained about tickers. I like them. The only problem i really see with them is if someone goes away for a week or two with no internet that there fighters can be pretty much ruined and they quit. I have put in more time into this game that i care to mention. Scouting fighters etc can take upto 15-30 mins per fighter to find out what you are looking for. Training my guys? Takes me 5 mins max. Its actually something i just thought of. If you are able to allocate and decide what skills get nerf'd scouting fights goes out the window to. Since your opponent could have changed his fighters skills. Basically turning a game that is already like russian roulette with hiddens etc into a even bigger game of chance.

 

Most new people quit the game because of the slow training time, the fact they are no video graphics, they just don't like it or the fact they don't take the time to learn the game. They don't even get the time to find out what tickers are. I seen Mike post about losing 20 members a day because of the current training system. Its because its not like the UFC video game where you can put a days work in and have a monster or the fact they have to wait 2 days for a fight. The most recent people to quit like Deamus etc just fell out of love with the game and got bored of it. Grey quit because the manager ranks were broken. I haven't really heard anyone quit recently and blame tickers. They just after a few years of playing the game got bored with it the same way almost everyone does with games.

[DeadlyDirk]

Mike, firstly I know this would probably be a ton of work but if you're going to take points away what if we could add some new and fun things to fighters at the same time?

 

People have asked for other attributes such as sambo, karate, footwork, top control, bottom control etc for quite a while now, would it be possible to perhaps work some of these in at the same time?

 

It would seem as good a time as any to work these in as the reason behind not adding them in the past has usually been, how do we add them to current fighters.

 

It might be a bit easier to take if there were some new fun things added at the same time. As mentioned I'm sure it would be a ton of work though and no doubt mean recoding a lot of the fight engine.

 

I bet a lot of people would think it would be pretty cool if things like this could be added and it would definitely soften the blow for some.

[ArtieBanks]

I would say that I do apologise to anyone and everyone, moreso to the people who have reached the highest level. I appreciate very much the effort that's gone into creating and developing all fighters. I would love to be able to have no negative impact of anything.

 

However, the current system is unworkable and really pretty stupid. There is no point having fighters who are 90% across the board because it's boring. Training that way is boring. Fighting and gameplanning that way is boring. I was hoping to never get fighters to this level as I always thought it was a stupid concept. Unfortunately after having to downgrade tickers to be less annoying for people, we got there anyway and now it's a problem we need to solve rather than a problem we need to prevent. (N.B. when tickers started I think the highest skilled fighter was about 83% across the board average).

 

So something has to chance to make the game a better game. It's unfortunate that I had to take 3-4 months off the game in terms of proper development whilst I moved house, as I would have liked to sort this a while back. But now I have got the time and energy to fix a problem and it's a problem that does need fixing.

 

I was one of the people that stuck up for you when others were saying yeah where the fuck is mike and why has nothing happened about this that and the next thing. I mean out of all the mails i have sent to you. The only time i have complained was when you changed the free tickets thing overnight. The thing i complained about was maybe giving me a little heads up along with others about a date it would have been set. I never complained about the change itself i just figured a way around it and adapted like any other changes you have done. I spent months on trying to figure out the codes for how the free tickets hype addition value etc worked. It didn't bother me because i thought that the change made things fairer. (plus i already had a work around for it in place)

 

This i don't find fair. The way i see it with the % thing you propose that it is the top guys that are being punished the most. The way i see it is in real life terms you are a salesman, you work your fucking ass off for the commission to find out that because people complained that it was unfair on them that you get more even tho you put in more work than them. So the boss decides to take a % off your commission and everyone elses but you are being punished more because you put in the work. I am sorry but its just the way i feel about it all.

[Guest]

I was one of the people that stuck up for you when others were saying yeah where the fuck is mike and why has nothing happened about this that and the next thing. I mean out of all the mails i have sent to you. The only time i have complained was when you changed the free tickets thing overnight. The thing i complained about was maybe giving me a little heads up along with others about a date it would have been set. I never complained about the change itself i just figured a way around it and adapted like any other changes you have done. I spent months on trying to figure out the codes for how the free tickets hype addition value etc worked. It didn't bother me because i thought that the change made things fairer. (plus i already had a work around for it in place)

 

This i don't find fair. The way i see it with the % thing you propose that it is the top guys that are being punished the most. The way i see it is in real life terms you are a salesman, you work your fucking ass off for the commission to find out that because people complained that it was unfair on them that you get more even tho you put in more work than them. So the boss decides to take a % off your commission and everyone elses but you are being punished more because you put in the work. I am sorry but its just the way i feel about it all.

 

Dinno I hear what you're saying bro but--would you rather have a game with 7,000 plus or so playing...or would you rather have 50 OG's playing with quad elites all by themselves?

 

I mean I don't like that my guy at 67% skills that I'm just trying to get fight ready is going to get his skills cut...but I guess at this point we have to think about just making a game that will survive.

[Rambo]

Whats that got to do with capping skills? Well ground guys need a bit of everything to be effective. If you take into consideration they need to at least get there punches,kicks,striking defence and clinch upto exp. As well as getting takedown defence because of the stupid takedowns into mount. Then you have to work on ground and pound takedowns subs and dg. It ends up well over the 80% to make an elite ground guy. Capping the skills will make them pretty much useless.

 

The other thing is i took the time to micromanage my fighters and worked hard to get the fighters i have just recently gotten. Now its being changed because people can't be bothered to sign in once a day or even once every two days to check the tickers and change the training as needed. With Robert i have to train his skills constantly. His tickers are a nightmare.

 

 

If i don't fight every 3 weeks those go down they are impossible to maintain.

 

I think the ground game's a bit more effective than it's given credit for, the sliders just aren't as easy to decipher, but it could prolly use a little bit of tweaking. I believe that Strikers need ground stats to defend the ground game as much as Ground fighters need striking stats to defend the striking game. But in MMA - you start the fight on the feet.

[PBR]

Dinno I hear what you're saying bro but--would you rather have a game with 7,000 plus or so playing...or would you rather have 50 OG's playing with quad elites all by themselves?

 

I mean I don't like that my guy at 67% skills that I'm just trying to get fight ready is going to get his skills cut...but I guess at this point we have to think about just making a game that will survive.

well said

[MMATycoon]

BTW, down to 50% average skill getting cuts is totally up for discussion. We could set that at e.g. 65% to affect less people, if that's better.

[DavyJones]

I think the ground game's a bit more effective than it's given credit for, the sliders just aren't as easy to decipher, but it could prolly use a little bit of tweaking. I believe that Strikers need ground stats to defend the ground game as much as Ground fighters need striking stats to defend the striking game. But in MMA - you start the fight on the feet.

 

The ground game needs a lot more depth (especially from the bottom), because the way it is now is pretty limited and even boring to be honest. That's for another topic though. I'm not happy about it at all but I only have 6 subs in 104 wins and that's not for lack of trying.

[Guest]

BTW, down to 50% average skill getting cuts is totally up for discussion. We could set that at e.g. 65% to affect less people, if that's better.

 

Yeah, I think 50% is too low. Whats the average stat % right now?

[Rambo]

OK, it seems like the conversation's going pretty sensibly so far, so thanks for that. I'll run through a load of the points.

 

1. A hidden for peak skills, I'm cool with that. I would like it to be separate from the fast learner. As has been mentioned a few times, fast learner is already a beast of a hidden that means a lot of cut fighters so I have no problem with it being diluted somewhat. I think personally that's a good thing. Maybe if you have a skill peak hidden and a fast learner hidden, new people will choose fast learner and project builders could go for the peak hidden. More options. I would prefer a relatively narrow band of about 78-82%. I can imagine it would be very disheartening if you had trained a guy up for ages and he hits 75% and stops (in for example a 75-85% spread hidden). That would absolutely suck. 4% total skills is still a big enough spread and is around 100 points or half a skill level across the board.

 

2. Decreasing the effectiveness of ground fighters. This has been repeated a lot of times but I haven't seen anyone explain why. I don't see it changing things either way and if anything I see it as helping that situation. I'm not sure if some people are unaware or have just forgotten or what, but takedown defense / sub defense etc have been looking at your offensive skills for a while now. It's not an insignificant part of the equation, so I think that's more a perception than a reality. If there are difficulties for grappers in the game, that's a game engine issue more than a skills issue now, since those changes about 5 months ago.

 

I think the ground game's acceptable. Could use some very minor improving in certain areas.

 

3. The "I've worked so hard and now it's all gone! I'm done!" argument. If that's how you feel, please can you explain how that's the case, preferably in numbers / an actual example of one fighter and how he is negatively impacted.

 

I've been here for 3+ years. It's taken me 3 years to get my fighter Elite stats and primaries, and now it's getting decreased. Not keen to the idea at all. If I had a guy that was nothing but elite and sensatonal in every stat, I'd understand that. But I don't feel like my fighters have unrealistic stats so I'd like to know the direct impact they'd be taking without me doing a bunch of match equations to try and solve it myself. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong/unrealistic with a fighter being Sensational in every single statistic. Some fighters are just great at everything. Other aren't. People are going to point out my triple elite fighter, but how many triple elite fighters are there in the game compared to how many fighters there are in the game? 20,000+ fighters - inactive or not, there's IRL fighters that are inactive - if there's 100 triple elite fighters (which I don't think there are), that's what less than 1% of the population have triple elite stats? That's the example of Junior Dos Santos, Anderson Silva, GSP, Jose Aldo, Dan Henderson, Jon Jones type fighter. Double Elites really a problem? Say we have 1000 double elite fighters in MMAtycoon. That's 5% of the population if we only have 20K fighters. There's your Rampage Jackson (Elite boxing/wrestling), Shane Carwin (boxing/wrestling), Cain Velesquez (Boxing/Wrestling), Nick Diaz (Boxing/BJJ), Uriah Faber (Boxing/Wrestling), Rashad Evans (boxing/wrestling), Renan Barao, Gegard Mousasi, Carlos Condit, Frankie Edgar, Big Nog, Overeem, etc fighters... See what I'm gettin at?

 

Another option/question, would you ever consider not factoring primaries into the equation of skills that would receive a decrease? I've always considered primaries the base or fundementals, with secondaries being the actual skills. For example:

 

Melvin Guillard & Donald Cerrone might be Elite Boxing, Elite Muay Thai, Sensational Wrestling, Blue Belt (Purple for Cerrone?) and their secondaries look like:

 

Sensational Punches

Sensational Kicks

Wonderful Knees

Remarkable Elbows

Exceptional Clinchwork

Wonderful Striking Defense

Remarkable GNP

Wonderful Takedowns

Wonderful Takedown Defense

Feeble Submissions (Wonderful subs for Cerrone)

Wonderful Defensive Grappling

 

Just because a fighter has elite primaries, doesn't make him elite in their statistics/secondaries.

 

Or maybe you can let us choose where this stat decreasing percentage comes from? Have the option to select any (1, 2, or all 3) Physicals, Primaries, Secondaries to reduce the stats from.

 

 

5. Choosing what skills to drop in. We can do that. I don't think it'd be anything like as necessary under the new system as the current system though - you should be able to drop off whatever skills you want to now, as you don't have to constantly spar everything to avoid any losses. I would prefer to just tae the same % off everything as that would be infinitely easier but I get why people wouldn't want that, so we could work something out.

 

As long as I have a reasonable amount of notice, ultimately I'll work with whatever decision you make.

 

6. We already have a hidden for age drop offs and have had it about a year

 

Sneaky ninja...

 

7. The concept of cutting / squeezing skills. I'm sure that if I added two levels of skill above elite, people wouldn't really have a problem with that. It's a psychological thing to lose skills and I understand that but it's only psychological and is EXACTLY the same concept, barring two facts;

- Adding more skills is way harder to program, would much longer, would mean re-learning skill levels / what's good etc. It would also mean the possibility of errors in training / fight programming and possibly the speed of training would need re-doing.

- I've forgotten the second point whilst I was writing the first one, so that one will have to do

 

THIS.

 

I know you say it's complicated but if you could get it done correctly by the New Year Jan 1st 2013, I think you should really consider this route, it's the best possible option. Everybody's happy this way. Nobody loses skills. Nobody sees progress eliminated. Maybe you could just allow "elite" to get to the ++++ or ++++++ area? That way "Elite" would become just as much of a "Fog of War" as the belt colors for BJJ fighters. I've always felt like it should be that way at the top end which is why I don't mind seeing triple elite primary fighters. IRL I think there's tons of MMA fighters that are "elite" in skills, some fighters are more than just talented than others, they're just "better fighters". Call it instinct or whatever you want. I know I'm competent in boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ... I'm not great, I might not even be good, but I'm easily competent in every aspect, and I'm practically untrained. You take fighters that have been training for 5+ years, they're elite or damn close. They might not perform like elites, but that's where "hiddens" come in. IRL there's hidden elements to fighters just like there's hidden elements of fighters in this game. Some fighters crumble on pressure. Some can't take a punch while some can eat everything you got and the kitchen sink. Some just knock people out and others can't no matter how hard they try. Some fighters are smart and some are white belts that shoot for TD's against a black belt or don't listen to their coaches for the life of em. Some fighters are lazy and don't train as hard as others. And then there's some fighters who would rather hug it out than fight, and have no desire to hurt you, while the next guy wants to litterly rip your head off and put it on a pike for the world to see.

 

Anyway my point being, fighters being elite in multiple catagories shouldn't be that big of an issue. Hiddens are the intangibles to the elite. That, and there's always different levels of elite (K.J. Noons & Anderson Silva Elite Boxers) and increasing the skill cap will allow the same fog of war element that Purple, Brown, Black belt, etc offers.

 

I think increasing the skill cap is a genius idea, as long as you could do it without fucking everything else up on accident or delaying the effectiveness of the game. Assuming you could test all this before implementing it?

 

 

8. Aptitudes. I'm struggling to think of a way to work in aptitudes properly, that wouldn't take loads of explaining and in which they aren't a bit of a pointless add on to something that works fine without them. I want to keep the new system simple. Maybe we scrap them, I dunno. We could just leave them as they are whereby you train them a bit faster than other skills but then people would just put their aptitude on the stuff they had the lowest skills in, on creation. With a more basic skill decline system like we'll have in place, I don't really see how to have them affect skill decreases. I don't personally have a problem getting rid of them - the less complicated fighter creation is, the better... I never really liked throwing them in there on creation when a new manager had to stare at even more numbers.

 

Get rid of them. Much easier and much less confusing. I get asked by newer members I try to help all the time about fighter aptitudes. I just tell them to click the random box so they get more points. Gettin rid of them might be a good idea.

 

A general point regarding why this is necessary - it has nothing to do with people complaining, rather just the loss of members since the tickers came in (about a net 2000 people loss). I still have all those people's email addresses (about 60,000 people) so can contact them and tell them tickers are gone. I would think a fair few might come back. I have a feedback survey that is sent out when people quit and a lot of responses were that they didn't like the time that tickers took. When you have people like CardiffWanderer that leave, who put so much time into the game and the forums etc, that's not right. For every one that I know individually, there will no doubt be 10s or 100s more that I have never spoken to. Besides, the system, after getting diluted, just didn't work properly. I anticipated a few of the problems but there are others that I didn't anticipate too... the sparring constantly flattening out all skills and bumping all physicals so high was one that I wasn't expecting to the extent that it happened.

 

For every legit manager that quit, there were likely 2 non-legit managers that quit. So I wouldn't beat yourself over that at all. I think a new system is for the better, but if you're gonna make a change that caps total skill percentage around 80% and takes away a percentage of your fighters skills, we need a heads up. I think at the earliest Christmas, or the beginning of 2013 would be reasonable and fair date.

 

 

If people rage quit over this then that should mean either:

 

1) they're managing fighters significantly above the 80% mark who really will see a larger cut to their marginal advantage (but given many of these are veteran players who understand the importance of game balance and have witnessed other long time players quitting, one would hope they would understand why the change was being made), or

 

2) they really don't understand maths, because this point is being explained over and over again that it won't hurt them in the grand scheme of things if their goal is genuinely to compete with the best.

 

I don't feel any of my fighters stats are beyond realistic so I just can't wrap my head around why their stats should decrease at all. It took a long fuckin time for them to get that way. 3+ years. I have the #1 and #2 LHW in the game (at the moment) and that's like having Jon Jones and Dan Henderson caliber of fighter on your roster. Rampage Jackson / Chuck Liddell / Lyoto Machida / Gegard Mousasi / Rashad Evans... So when you tell me their stats are decreasing...

 

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

 

The more I say it, there more doom I feel, knowing some people just won't do it, despite the fact that everyone else has to do it too, so there's very little negative effect other than psychology. Perhaps the only way is to add two more levels above elite. I'm certainly not going to be stubborn this time around and insist on pushing something through just for the good of the game, if it makes people quit based on emotions... not if we can have a *nearly* as good system without as many negative psychological effects. With two more levels added we can maybe cap at what is now 90% in terms of the "elite" etc words... It's just a bit messier having 17 skill levels and I personally don't like it as much but whatever, if it keeps people happier.

 

I'll adapt regardless, but I just want a reasonable heads up on when this change is occuring... no less than 40 days, prefer after Christmas. This is a significant change. I don't think gettin rid of tickers is bringing any of the old members back over night, but maybe telling them a change is coming soon they'll get an early start knowing their fighters won't even have to worry about tickers this early on in their careers.

 

Because everyone at the top of the game being 90% is absolutely rubbish as a concept for a game. Do you not agree with that? If you stop at 90%, what's the point stopping there? You might as well just have everyone at 100% cos it's practically the same.... once people are that high there's very little in terms of possible gameplanning or variation so what's the point?

 

If there's one thing I will always do it's consider things carefully. This is absolutely a no win situation though. The current system is now rubbish. Top fighters being 90% is rubbish. NOT cutting skills would be ignoring the long term future of the game, because the long term future of the game is to make the game the most sensible, sustainable game possible. Being able to get to over 90% skill is not good or sustainable.

 

I would consider Jon Jones at least 85% of his skill level. I don't think we'll see him improve much more, but he still has a ton of potential to improve. Anderson Silva? I'd say 90% maybe capped out. Junior Dos Santos, 85-87%. We need to be able to replica real fighters in this game. What good's their stats if their hiddens suck? And there's no way to discover all of your hiddens without fighting constantly - and even then nothing is ever a 100% guarentee - and how many fighters actually make it there?

 

Quoting myself from above

I've been here for 3+ years. It's taken me 3 years to get my fighter Elite stats and primaries, and now it's getting decreased. Not keen to the idea at all. If I had a guy that was nothing but elite and sensatonal in every stat, I'd understand that. But I don't feel like my fighters have unrealistic stats so I'd like to know the direct impact they'd be taking without me doing a bunch of match equations to try and solve it myself. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong/unrealistic with a fighter being Sensational in every single statistic. Some fighters are just great at everything. Other aren't. People are going to point out my triple elite fighter, but how many triple elite fighters are there in the game compared to how many fighters there are in the game? 20,000+ fighters - inactive or not, there's IRL fighters that are inactive - if there's 100 triple elite fighters (which I don't think there are), that's what less than 1% of the population have triple elite stats? That's the example of Junior Dos Santos, Anderson Silva, GSP, Jose Aldo, Dan Henderson, Jon Jones type fighter. Double Elites really a problem? Say we have 1000 double elite fighters in MMAtycoon. That's 5% of the population if we only have 20K fighters. There's your Rampage Jackson (Elite boxing/wrestling), Shane Carwin (boxing/wrestling), Cain Velesquez (Boxing/Wrestling), Nick Diaz (Boxing/BJJ), Uriah Faber (Boxing/Wrestling), Rashad Evans (boxing/wrestling), Renan Barao, Gegard Mousasi, Carlos Condit, Frankie Edgar, Big Nog, Overeem, etc fighters... See what I'm gettin at?

[PBR]

BTW, down to 50% average skill getting cuts is totally up for discussion. We could set that at e.g. 65% to affect less people, if that's better.

i think 60% could be a good mark -- due to the nerfing will be small towards that end

 

here is one of my fighters just over 65% actually he is 66%

 

Boxing Wonderful(6)--

Muay Thai Remarkable(5)--

Wrestling Remarkable(7)++

BJJ Proficient(19)+

 

Agility Exceptional(7)-

Flexibility Wonderful(9)+

Speed Sensational(18)+

Strength Wonderful(4)-

Conditioning Sensational(1)--

Balance Wonderful(0)--

 

Punches Sensational(10)--

Kicks Wonderful(1)--

Elbows Abysmal(22)++

Knees Abysmal(22)++

Clinchwork Remarkable(9)+

Striking Defense Sensational(15)-

Ground n Pound Abysmal(8)--

Takedown Off Proficient(0)+

Takedown Def Sensational(1)--

Submissions Abysmal(20)-

Defensive Grap Exceptional(19)+

 

dont think it would kill or hurt him major taking little hit -- one big thing is especially since your considering letting us choose which skill / skills to drop -- that should help a lot of the managers feel somewhat better

[PBR]

I don't feel any of my fighters stats are beyond realistic so I just can't wrap my head around why their stats should decrease at all. It took a long fuckin time for them to get that way. 3+ years. I have the #1 and #2 LHW in the game (at the moment) and that's like having Jon Jones and Dan Henderson caliber of fighter on your roster. Rampage Jackson / Chuck Liddell / Lyoto Machida / Gegard Mousasi / Rashad Evans... So when you tell me their stats are decreasing...

 

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

 

 

 

I'll adapt regardless, but I just want a reasonable heads up on when this change is occuring... no less than 40 days, prefer after Christmas. This is a significant change. I don't think gettin rid of tickers is bringing any of the old members back over night, but maybe telling them a change is coming soon they'll get an early start knowing their fighters won't even have to worry about tickers this early on in their careers.

 

 

 

I would consider Jon Jones at least 85% of his skill level. I don't think we'll see him improve much more, but he still has a ton of potential to improve. Anderson Silva? I'd say 90% maybe capped out. Junior Dos Santos, 85-87%. We need to be able to replica real fighters in this game. What good's their stats if their hiddens suck? And there's no way to discover all of your hiddens without fighting constantly - and even then nothing is ever a 100% guarentee - and how many fighters actually make it there?

 

Quoting myself from above

 

honestly though what is the difference if this happens tomorrow or 40 days from now? -- especially since your gonna get to choose which skills to decline -- sorry i just dont see what it matters on time wise doing it so wanted to ask

[ArtieBanks]

Dinno I hear what you're saying bro but--would you rather have a game with 7,000 plus or so playing...or would you rather have 50 OG's playing with quad elites all by themselves?

 

I mean I don't like that my guy at 67% skills that I'm just trying to get fight ready is going to get his skills cut...but I guess at this point we have to think about just making a game that will survive.

 

I am no where close to an OG. I would rabble on but i can see i am fighting a losing battle and know when to call it quits. Karter made the point about the triple elites and how many of them they are.

 

This game isn't for everyone. People either like it or the hate it. They are very little middle ground in games like this because it is a very slow paced game. I'd say for every old member you get back you will lose a current member. Because what you need to remember is this game takes quite a while to get started back in. Its not a game where you can buy speed ups etc to make your life easier you need to wait. People that have played the game before and quit because of tickers also know that and the fact they would have to restart from scratch again. Its a daunting challenge.

 

You know that yourself Luke coming back and being here a year and your fighters are just about ready to start fighting. The new changes might cut that time by 25% so 9 months. It is still a long time and it takes a guy with the patience of a saint to do it. I love this game and if its for the greater good of it then so be it. I'll thank Mike for making a great game and go on my way.

[Rambo]

honestly though what is the difference if this happens tomorrow or 40 days from now? -- especially since your gonna get to choose which skills to decline -- sorry i just dont see what it matters on time wise doing it so wanted to ask

 

 

Because I have fights scheduled. I'll probably avoid fights during that period. Make sure there aren't any fucked up mechanical flaws or bugs that come with making big changes. Also would like to see get a closer glimpse of training pre-changes era and post-changes era, since I don't really pay the much attention to training anyway, only pops.

 

 

But mainly the fights. I would hate for some stupid counter/takedown bug, or maybe auto counter KO bug, to pop up and take a loss because of something silly. I remember when people were countering into TD's early in the fight for no reason, I don't wanna go through that.

[PBR]

Karter made the point about the triple elites and how many of them they are.

 

also that is karters views -- personally i dont think there are any triple or quad elites in mma -- or if they are their isnt many at all -- i would say maybe triple expectational but not elite -- but its also what standards you set or look for -- personally elite boxing is mayweather jr, pac-man, tyson in his time -- elite bjj is royce,Drysdale few others -- and there is no mma fighter that has mayweathers boxing and royce's sub game muchless be elite in m/t and wrestling also

[PBR]

Because I have fights scheduled. I'll probably avoid fights during that period. Make sure there aren't any fucked up mechanical flaws or bugs that come with making big changes. Also would like to see get a closer glimpse of training pre-changes era and post-changes era, since I don't really pay the much attention to training anyway, only pops.

 

 

But mainly the fights. I would hate for some stupid counter/takedown bug, or maybe auto counter KO bug, to pop up and take a loss because of something silly. I remember when people were countering into TD's early in the fight for no reason, I don't wanna go through that.

okay well dont see anything like that happening -- fight engine and training is two different things totally dont see either having to do with the other at all -- but see your worries i guess -- but training changes have never affected fight engine

[Rambo]

also that is karters views -- personally i dont think there are any triple or quad elites in mma -- or if they are their isnt many at all -- i would say maybe triple expectational but not elite -- but its also what standards you set or look for -- personally elite boxing is mayweather jr, pac-man, tyson in his time -- elite bjj is royce,Drysdale few others -- and there is no mma fighter that has mayweathers boxing and royce's sub game muchless be elite in m/t and wrestling also

 

 

This isn't boxing it's MMA. You can be an elite level striker in MMA and be nowhere near the caliber of a boxer in a ring. Frankie Edgar, BJ Penn, KJ Noons, Nick Diaz, Junior Dos Santos, Anderson Silva, Rampage Jackson, Rich Franklin, Mirko Cro Cop, Mark Potter, Mark Hunt - all elite level MMA boxers, despite if they can compete in a boxing ring with Mayweather or not.

 

Same goes for wrestlers; Lesnar, Sonnen, Faber, Fitch, Maynard, Guida, Velesquez, Mendes, GSP, Kos, Hughes, Shields, etc

 

BJJ specialist: Maia, Silva, Nogueira, Palhares, Barao, Mir, Aoki, etc

 

MT: Anderson Silva, Wanderlei Silva, Barao, Thiago Silva, Thiago Alvez, Jose Aldo, Condit, Belcher, etc (I had to add 2 non-brazilians)

 

 

Ultimately I'm still in favor for raising the bar on the skill cap. Add 20 more points on top of elite, and I think you satisfy everybody without pissing people off by decreasing their stats.

[PBR]

This isn't boxing it's MMA. You can be an elite level striker in MMA and be nowhere near the caliber of a boxer in a ring. Frankie Edgar, BJ Penn, KJ Noons, Nick Diaz, Junior Dos Santos, Anderson Silva, Rampage Jackson, Rich Franklin, Mirko Cro Cop, Mark Potter, Mark Hunt - all elite level MMA boxers, despite if they can compete in a boxing ring with Mayweather or not.

 

Same goes for wrestlers; Lesnar, Sonnen, Faber, Fitch, Maynard, Guida, Velesquez, Mendes, GSP, Kos, Hughes, Shields, etc

 

BJJ specialist: Maia, Silva, Nogueira, Palhares, Barao, Mir, Aoki, etc

 

MT: Anderson Silva, Wanderlei Silva, Barao, Thiago Silva, Thiago Alvez, Jose Aldo, Condit, Belcher, etc (I had to add 2 non-brazilians)

 

 

Ultimately I'm still in favor for raising the bar on the skill cap. Add 20 more points on top of elite, and I think you satisfy everybody without pissing people off by decreasing their stats.

 

well thats why i said depends what your standards are -- but just for arguments sake there isnt one fighter you named in 3 of those skills much less all 4 -- so you sort of proved the point there -- 2 of them yea and i could see 2 of them but not 3 or 4 for sure -- again though its by what standards you look or go by -- look at when you reach elite wresting here it states olympic wrestler a lot of the times in tott -- dont think any of those you mention are olympic wrestlers standards -- i know its just how i look at it -- to me elite means elite in that sport period not just elite for mma standards