Ticker Replacements

[sabaton]

Under the current system, and this new proposal, I would still like to see an option to reset some skills to 0. I had to retire a couple of guys because they were "too skilled", but they were not elite. They were craphole generalistically skilled fighters who did not really excel at anything. The current system made it impossible for them to drop the half-trained skills they don't use because they were forced to spar their primary skills all the time. I do not know what that would be like under the current system, but I am betting that my same guys would still get kind of screwed. If they were allowed to reset some skills to 0 then they could at least attempt to specialize in something rather than sucking at everything.

[Stu_Pidasol]

For starters a 90% cap or 32yo is fucking too high.. The most highly skilled fighter in the game is there but really how many other fighters will make it there probably a handful the age is an exception.

 

Unfortunately a restart would have dire consequences for the game - it's 1 dimensional thinking to think that would solve anything.. There are business owners who would lose everything - top orgs would go under as no fighters have hype anymore.. the list goes on and on....

 

Mike's plan does look after the situation but I still think it should be tied into apptidues or like Matt has said - Get rid of attributes altogther.

 

Decline however should be based on a formula that includes age and also the injury hidden..

[shortfuse122829]

If Mike gave til Jan 1st to implement this u could choose which skills to keep and which to drop with the current ticker system simply by starting to let it decline

[Grasman]

To those worried so much about veteran managers leaving due to their fighters losing skill...

 

I have 10 fighters above 80% total skill

5 fighters above 85% skill

3 fighters above 86% skill and

1 fighter who has 87.8% skill.

 

Hence, I have a lot to lose with this system

 

But I'm not going anywhere.

 

This change is actually a "minor shock" compared to the game engine change, which destroyed half of my fighter roster, turning my previously good fighters to shit overnight.

 

This change is small in comparison to that.

 

[Guest]

Just saw this, and I think its a very creative and realistic solution to the long-term growth of the game... the only thing I'd add was the suggestion by predicted (I'm pretty sure it was him) that instead of making the cap a hard 80%, to add some variance to it through a hidden would be a great feature. If a fighter could vary anywhere from as low as 75% to as high as 85%, I think that could add a new wrinkle at the tippy top of the fighter rankings.

 

I think this will increase the parity in the game substantially. Nice move here, can't wait til its implemented

[Guest]

BTW guys, in my experience, a restart is a death knell for a game like this.

If you do it this time, you have to do it next time. And next time. And next time. Until it only becomes worth playing this game if you happen to start at the beginning of a restart. There has to be a career arch when fighters start hitting a massive decline. If there isn't, it kills the motivation of newer players, who would then know they could never reach the tip-top.

 

Adding on to predicted's suggestion of a hidden for the %cap, I'd also suggest a longevity hidden, citing how long it takes for a fighter to decline, and at what age.

 

But main point being that a restart is just a bad, bad idea. It's a lazy solution to an important problem IMO

[Mentor]

I think older fighters should get a slight hit, mainly because:

 

- They had an extra week per year to train

- They progressed easier and faster before

 

Due to that they have an advantage in skills. However i think it should be be done not based on the 150 skills points per category. Main reason why i am against that is that some fighters have much more skills put in one direction, while others are more balanced. With the above system the balanced fighters will have an advantage.

 

I think it should be done on overall (total) skills. So you get the people with the most points and depreciate their skills evenly by 10%. Fighters which have trained before the major changes in training should not be touched at all.

[Guest]

I agree with the general concept. This plan makes it both easier for new managers to reach competitive levels (which is necessary for new manager retention) and avoids the time consuming ticker system (which I like but I know most don't have time for).

 

My biggest concerns seem to be the ones already mentioned. Firstly, that this system puts wrestlers, BJJ artists, and clinch specialists at an even bigger disadvantage than they already are. Something needs to be adjusted to allow them to compete at high levels with strikers or we will end up with clones fighting each other.

 

Secondly, there really needs to be some sort of cap hidden, so that some guys can develop more than others. Having the same cap on everyone seems a little silly. 80% sounds like a good average, but some variation would be nice, with some fighters better and others worse. If we want to get even more specific, there could be some variation in the cap that brings aptitudes into play. For example, if you have a strong BJJ aptitude, training BJJ would eat up less of your 80% cap than training other disciplines would, allowing you to go slightly over the cap, but only if you focus on what you are naturally good at.

 

On a related note, I'm also all for some variation in the skill decline age. Injury history and a hidden should determine what age a guy starts to decline at, with most fighters starting to decline between 30-32 but some exceptional ones starting to decline later than that.

[BigJoeSullivan]

In my opinion this just dooms all grappler builds unless there is a change in the fight engine that vastly increases the use of a skill to defend against the same skill being applied to you. Example being submissions, right now my fighters with no subs at all are still very hard to submit due to high defensive grappling and slider settings. With the system being proposed I'll just let takedowns, ground and pound, and submissions decay and still be very hard to takedown and enjoy an even wider striking advantage with my strikers.

 

I have a suggestion for that. Submission ability and defence of them should be linked at least to a point. There is nobody in the world who is an elite BJJ defence artist but couldn't sub a white belt to save their life. Likewise there's no such thing as a master of submission that does not understand how to defend them. There should still be separate skills because it is reasonable that someone can be much better at offence or defence but there should never be Elite Dgrap and useless sub offence on the same person. It's unrealistic.

It wouldn't be hard to implement either. All training in offence should give some percentage into defence and vise versa. They should also decrease similarly. The trick would be to figure out the ratio.

 

If you wanted to let your subs drop off then your BJJ defence would suffer as well just not as much. Many people would still do it but you would have more stand up fighters who were more vulnerable to ground attacks than before. It would make ground fighters more viable.

 

The same should go for TD and TDD. If you know TDs then you know something of how to defend them and vis versa.

[soyster89]

I dont know why you dont just make a comprimise for the better of the game to keep people from quiting again. Cap everything at 90% until age 32 or older. Then have age kick in randomly to different guys and start dropping. Once it kicks in the older you get the worse you get. Seems like a fair comprimise to everyone.

 

This way guys who are at 90% dont get pissed and leave. People get their declines so guys do not dominate forever. Its semi realistic as many fighters begin to drop off around 32-35. I think its time everyone realizes the tickers are gonna kill this game the harder they are dropping guys. JUst let poeple get thir 90% and have age play a roll later on. To me thats fair and wont kill the game. At this point if there is another mass exodus on the tickers this baby is done.

This is close. Leave fighter skill & learning speeds alone, and let age/damage/injuries play the determining role in degradation. We don't need a cap. We need degradation because of hiddens and age to play a larger role. The part of eliminating tickers is fine. The hard cap does nothing but take away another realism to our fighters.

[BigJoeSullivan]

I definitely think aptitudes should play a huge part in the kind of skill levels you can have, otherwise they're just about useless.

 

That's what I was thinking. A solution could be that if for example your fighter has amazing boxing aptitude then his points in boxing could count less towards the cap. This would allow for the aptitude to mean something and it would allow for only "born boxers" to reach the very highest levels without sacrificing as much. At the same time it would not bar someone who wasn't born to it from focusing on boxing but it would not be as worth it for them as they would have to work harder to get there.

[BigJoeSullivan]

So instead of having skills decrease slowly with age, we lose most of them once our fighters reach "Top Tier". I don't like that one bit. Or the idea of Fast Learner having no effect once we reach the top level. I rather have tickers than having to chose what skills my fighters won't excel in. I also don't like this idea of getting skills cut back, what's the point of training them that high, if we're just gonna lose them later. Of course I don't like the idea, like many other players. Everytime Mike makes an improvement people seem to instantly complain. I really don't like this, I don't have a problem with tickers. Having to maintain my fighter's skills is part of what makes this game fun. I think if we implement this, I'll seriously leave the game. I'm sure many new and established player as well as veterans will leave. Don't have to fix it if it ain't broke. I think high level players want to keep high skills and physicals without having to maintain them, which is crazy of course. I'm sure I won't be the only one who leaves if we make this type of change. My suggestion is just to improve the tickers, make them "slower" in a sense. But I'm just Ganja, nobody ever listens to me!

 

The cut back is only because there are currently fighters about what the new max is proposed to be. It's not like there would be cuts again once it was done. The idea is to give more variation at the top level. Everyone would be taking cuts so its not like you will move down in relation to your peers. If only your fighters were taking cuts then ya that would suck but if everyone is dropping in equal measure then what difference does it make to you? The numbers are all meaningless except when compared to others.

[BigJoeSullivan]

I totally disagree with those of you who are complaining about Fast Learner. It is just that... you learn faster. It's not called the "Fat Crackling Power of the Gods" hidden. It already confers some pretty hefty advantages. You will be ready to step into the cage sooner (and thus at a younger age) meaning that you can start earning money faster. And you will have higher skills then those you are likely to face. Therefore you will win more often (at least in theory). Thus, you will earn far more money than an average learner over the course of your career because you will begin your career sooner, get to the top tier faster, and stay there longer. Now you want to somehow be able to get even more advantages out of this hidden? You want it to take you to the very gates of Valhalla to threaten the Gods and make mere mortals tremble in fear?

 

I think the fast learner hidden is just fine the way it is.

 

From my experience as a scout, slow learners are the number one reason people fire fighters. Its the most common reason someone gives when declining a contract or renegotiation. "slow learning, I'm canning him" People are obsessed with this hidden more than any other that I can tell. I can understand why too because with the current system it would be exceptionally powerful since it would help maintain more skills. I would love to see this one lose some of its power so people wouldn't base a fighter so much on it.

 

Fast learners don't dominate real MMA. Natural talent + hard work does.

[762x39]

I understand that most dont like the tickers. I dont mind them, but I am willing to try whatever. I just think if we have to get our fighter skills cut, we should be able to pick what ones. Most of my guys are ground, so they will drop from elite takedowns to say sensational--. May be more or less, I dont know. Anyway, now I have to train that back to elite, causing something else to drop more. So then I have to rebuild my ground guy, and give up even more of his standup. If he is going to force a cut on our skills, give us the chance to pick what ones, people have already asked to give us till the new year anyway. That should give enough time to work out a way to pick. That is all that realy bothers me about it. Takedowns are hard enough to get with elite, you cut ours from the get go, plus take away the stand up we do have and you just killed our ground guys. We may as well cut them, and change the game to K1 Tycoon.

[fbwellman]

Starting over would kill the game for sure. Poeple would get pissed and quit in a heart beat. If that were the case, leaving the game as is and working on a 2.0 woudl be better. Then releasing it when finished. Giving people time to prepare.

 

In the liong run this may be the only solution, but that doesnt fix the ticker issue. To me a start over of any kind is a whole seperate issue.

Hey someone agrees with me! I'm awesome

[Guest]

135 in everything DOESN'T MAKE YOU IMORTAL though does it? the game is to biased towards the hiddens

[Guest]

Soo you're telling me that all the time i put on my fighter for them to get to a certain point, it's all going to be for nothing becauser their skill set is going to be squeezed, sorry but i don't agree with that, i didn't spend 1 year in game time so my guys could get to 14 in Boxing or Wrestling so now it can all be squeezed back to 120 and have to train all of it back up, spend more time in a skill that was once taken care of, instead of training my fighters weak skills.

[Goatacre]

Soo you're telling me that all the time i put on my fighter for them to get to a certain point, it's all going to be for nothing becauser their skill set is going to be squeezed, sorry but i don't agree with that, i didn't spend 1 year in game time so my guys could get to 14 in Boxing or Wrestling so now it can all be squeezed back to 120 and have to train all of it back up, spend more time in a skill that was once taken care of, instead of training my fighters weak skills.

 

Stop typing and actually think about it. That particular change makes your fighter more competitive.

 

Any chance of an IQ test before allowing people to comment on the ideas...the very good points are at risk of being lost amongst the rubbish being spouted

[jacky67]

That's nonsense man. There's plenty of good fighters post-ticker era.

 

No and you're fighters are a good example 3* elite it's too long to reach that lvl with tickers now, your fighter was already 4* exceptional when the tickers started so it was easy to just improve.

[jacky67]

Soo you're telling me that all the time i put on my fighter for them to get to a certain point, it's all going to be for nothing becauser their skill set is going to be squeezed, sorry but i don't agree with that, i didn't spend 1 year in game time so my guys could get to 14 in Boxing or Wrestling so now it can all be squeezed back to 120 and have to train all of it back up, spend more time in a skill that was once taken care of, instead of training my fighters weak skills.

 

Your fighter are not as good to be hit by the new system.

[jacky67]

I dont know why you dont just make a comprimise for the better of the game to keep people from quiting again. Cap everything at 90% until age 32 or older. Then have age kick in randomly to different guys and start dropping. Once it kicks in the older you get the worse you get. Seems like a fair comprimise to everyone.

 

This way guys who are at 90% dont get pissed and leave. People get their declines so guys do not dominate forever. Its semi realistic as many fighters begin to drop off around 32-35. I think its time everyone realizes the tickers are gonna kill this game the harder they are dropping guys. JUst let poeple get thir 90% and have age play a roll later on. To me thats fair and wont kill the game. At this point if there is another mass exodus on the tickers this baby is done.

 

 

That is basically what he wants do.

[rac2]

Goatacre: I think seeing posts like his is good for the thread so we know who will actually leave after changes are implemented.

 

About the proposed system, I think the cap should be determined by a hidden (0,01% of the fighter population could eventually become a jon jones) and the aptitude should play a factor into what is easier to decrease when the fighter is training something else, and into how quickly the fighter (re)builds when training the skill. If so, I would also like us to be able to reset the aptitude if we wanted to, since I set my fighter's based on ticker-based training system, instead of looking into what I said above...

 

In a nutshell, I like the tickers, I like the temporary system and I like the proposed system. I'm a survivor, I guess.

[WarMachine]

Its taking my fighters forever to train any way I don't see why this is going to change my mind that my guys aren't going to be superstars.

[fpv]

I spent 2 years playing the game and although slow I finally reach the 80% with a fighter and now that's it for him. I can't externalize how frustrated I feel with this.

[Guest]

i don't see what's wrong with the ticker system in the first place...it's realistic and gives me something else to pay attention to in the game...i guess many people don't like them, though