Ticker Replacements

[minark]

Footwork and Sub defense seem like the only 2 secondaries worth adding. 1 more skill for the strikers and 1 more skill for the ground specialist.

 

Why sub defense? That's another thing a ground fighter is going to need high in order to keep from getting subbed seeing as how he's going to want the majority of the fight on the ground? This only seems like it will hurt a ground fighter more than it will a striker.

 

If a ground fighter needs the skill just as high as a striker would then how does it help the ground fighter at all. If anything that would cut into a bigger chunk of the ground fighters percentage because his skill points need to be spread out even thinner yet.

[DavyJones]

For the ground game how about adding a skill called Escapes? Defensive grappling would be for advancing position and escapes would be used primarily to get the fight back to the feet. The ground fighter wouldn't necessarily have to learn that skill unless he wanted to be better rounded but the stand up guy definitely would want to spend points in it.

[Erik]

Why sub defense? That's another thing a ground fighter is going to need high in order to keep from getting subbed seeing as how he's going to want the majority of the fight on the ground? This only seems like it will hurt a ground fighter more than it will a striker.

 

If a ground fighter needs the skill just as high as a striker would then how does it help the ground fighter at all. If anything that would cut into a bigger chunk of the ground fighters percentage because his skill points need to be spread out even thinner yet.

 

 

If sub defence is coupled with a skill that is good for strikers but not really needed for ground fighters it closes the gap; it doesn't solve the problem, but it helps.

[minark]

For the ground game how about adding a skill called Escapes? Defensive grappling would be for advancing position and escapes would be used primarily to get the fight back to the feet. The ground fighter wouldn't necessarily have to learn that skill unless he wanted to be better rounded but the stand up guy definitely would want to spend points in it.

 

This idea I like. It gives a skill that a ground fighter might want but won't necessarily need. This way if he wants to have the opportunity to get back up he can work on them but if he wants the fight to stay on the ground he can ignore them. Only thing is I would use a different name then escapes.

[minark]

If sub defence is coupled with a skill that is good for strikers but not really needed for ground fighters it closes the gap; it doesn't solve the problem, but it helps.

 

I agree with that, but as far as sub defense goes both ground fighters and strikers are effected all the same. A ground fighter isn't going to want low sub defense as they're always going to be on the ground and won't want to get subbed easily by ground fighters.

 

*EDIT* - Alright, I think I may have been misunderstanding. You guys are saying add sub defense that both will need and then add the second stat as a stand up stat that only a striking fighter will need and a ground fighter will not need for a defense of any kind. If I'm reading it right now, that would make a lot of sense.

[Guest]

Mike what about the tickers? What is the plan for them?

[Guest]

I don't know, any time there was a try to hit the top tier guys it back fired. i know the idea is to create a more noob friendly environment in order to attract more players, but it doesn't work. last time the major players took a hit with the tickers a lot of them left and i didn't see new ones coming. also i don't think the skill level at the top levels is that crucial, after all the highest skilled fighter in the game is constantly getting beaten up. at those levels its more about the sliders and the hiddens. im against any nurfing of the top guys.

[Widing]

The thing is, there are these beasts that started training way back in 2009 or 2010. They are all have multiple elite skills, and you guys say that skills dont really matter that much, even though that is totally false. There is no way NEVER that the new guys can catch up to the old guys, since the old guys are STILL getting better. To make it even worse the current top fighters all learned way faster than the new guys do. There needs to be some kinda deterioration when your fighter is old enough, making some rotation in the game.

[jacky67]

There is still an issue witht his 80% cap, it's that the skills under exceptional are almost useless.

[Showdown]

There is still an issue witht his 80% cap, it's that the skills under exceptional are almost useless.

 

 

What? With the right hiddens and sliders, Wonderful is good enough to beat someone with Elite, so your statement makes no sense.

[Guest]

The thing is, there are these beasts that started training way back in 2009 or 2010. They are all have multiple elite skills, and you guys say that skills dont really matter that much, even though that is totally false. There is no way NEVER that the new guys can catch up to the old guys, since the old guys are STILL getting better. To make it even worse the current top fighters all learned way faster than the new guys do. There needs to be some kinda deterioration when your fighter is old enough, making some rotation in the game.

first of all, almost no top guy that started way back is improving. most of the guys there either struggling to hold on to what they got or mostly slowly losing skill. secondly at the highest levels, the elite fighters its all about the sliders and hiddens, it doesn't matter how skilled your guy is, if he got no chin or power. you see top level guys losing all the time, you see lesser skilled fighters drop double/triple elite all the time, just yesterday i won this fight

 

http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=501310

 

so what difference does skill make?

 

this guy is the highest skilled fighter in the game http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=31809

 

you can see that he can't beat shit. eventually sliders and hiddens matter more.

[Widing]

first of all, almost no top guy that started way back is improving. most of the guys there either struggling to hold on to what they got or mostly slowly losing skill. secondly at the highest levels, the elite fighters its all about the sliders and hiddens, it doesn't matter how skilled your guy is, if he got no chin or power. you see top level guys losing all the time, you see lesser skilled fighters drop double/triple elite all the time, just yesterday i won this fight

 

http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=501310

 

so what difference does skill make?

 

this guy is the highest skilled fighter in the game http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=31809

 

you can see that he can't beat shit. eventually sliders and hiddens matter more.

 

 

Yes hiddens make a difference, but really linking your exceptional - elite beating a 7-5 guy with a shitty chin really doesnt prove anything. The point I'm trying to make is that, the older fighters have a major advantage against the new breed of fighters, who age more quickly than the older fighters used to, and learn slower, doesn't make any sense at all. Our #1 fighter in the game is 28, that doesnt seem so bad does it? But when you think that he has been in this game for approximately 30 months, (which is 2,5 years) it's way too long.

[Guest]

Yes hiddens make a difference, but really linking your exceptional - elite beating a 7-5 guy with a shitty chin really doesnt prove anything. The point I'm trying to make is that, the older fighters have a major advantage against the new breed of fighters, who age more quickly than the older fighters used to, and learn slower, doesn't make any sense at all. Our #1 fighter in the game is 28, that doesnt seem so bad does it? But when you think that he has been in this game for approximately 30 months, (which is 2,5 years) it's way too long.

Why is bad? i don't get it, the guy worked hard on his fighter got a lucky roll of the dice and came up with an awsome fighter.

by the way the guy i beat lost to complete cans before me and was managed by the 2nd best manager in the game. my top guy also is an old fighter so what? he is 31 thats the age fighters peak.

 

also the guy i linked (harry) is the best skilled fighter in the game and you see how much thats worth

[Widing]

Why is bad? i don't get it, the guy worked hard on his fighter got a lucky roll of the dice and came up with an awsome fighter.

by the way the guy i beat lost to complete cans before me and was managed by the 2nd best manager in the game. my top guy also is an old fighter so what? he is 31 thats the age fighters peak.

 

also the guy i linked (harry) is the best skilled fighter in the game and you see how much thats worth

 

Again, you're not getting my point. I get that he has an awesome fighter, with awesome hiddens that he worked hard for. My point is, that he's been in the game for 2,5 years, there needs to be a time when he starts declining rapidly, and I'm not talking about an elite ++ skill going elite +.

 

There was a time in this game when the best were always replaced by someone else YB Sol by Jesus Gonzales, then came in Jigoro Kane, etc. Now we've come to the point that the top fighters cant get any better, it's almost impossible to replace them. It might be the case in real life that a fighters peak is 31, but in this game it shouldn't be, that fighter has been in this game for three years and he he should start declining, or otherwise this game doesnt make any sense at all.

[Erik]

by the way the guy i beat lost to complete cans before me and was managed by the 2nd best manager in the game. my top guy also is an old fighter so what? he is 31 thats the age fighters peak.

 

Most guys peak a lot earlier than 31 in reality.

 

The counterpoint is guys like Randy Couture and Anderson Silva, but they tend to be the significant exception rather than the rule.

 

If you took the top 5-10 guys of all time in each weight class most would be considered to have peaked in their mid-late 20s.

[Guest]

if the ground guys are falling behind because they have 2 more skills to train.....just add 2 more skills for the standup guys to train. KISS

[Warwynd]

Again, you're not getting my point. I get that he has an awesome fighter, with awesome hiddens that he worked hard for. My point is, that he's been in the game for 2,5 years, there needs to be a time when he starts declining rapidly, and I'm not talking about an elite ++ skill going elite +.

 

There was a time in this game when the best were always replaced by someone else YB Sol by Jesus Gonzales, then came in Jigoro Kane, etc. Now we've come to the point that the top fighters cant get any better, it's almost impossible to replace them. It might be the case in real life that a fighters peak is 31, but in this game it shouldn't be, that fighter has been in this game for three years and he he should start declining, or otherwise this game doesnt make any sense at all.

 

 

Most guys peak a lot earlier than 31 in reality.

 

The counterpoint is guys like Randy Couture and Anderson Silva, but they tend to be the significant exception rather than the rule.

 

If you took the top 5-10 guys of all time in each weight class most would be considered to have peaked in their mid-late 20s.

 

Both statements are true. 31 years of age is not the actual peak... it's just the age that the average fighter has reached the 9 year mark of their careers. Studies have shown that around 9-10 years of fighting professionally is where a significant drop off in ability comes in. Some guys who are far younger than 31 have begun to decline rapidly (I'm talking real life here), while other guys have stayed around well into their 40's. But look closer and most of those guys that are still kicking around in their 40s started later in life.

 

Point is that instead of making it a hard number based on age. It should be a number with some randomization factored into it at around that 9 year mark. Factoring in accumulated injuries and maybe some other factors and you get guys reaching their peak in about 2 years and then leveling off for a bit and by the 2.5 year mark they are beginning an unavoidable backslide.

 

Nothing saying they should be forced to retire, but rather that the manager of said fighter will probably want to retire them rather than run them into the ground. With VIP's now having the ability to retire guys straight away rather than having them become free agents will soften the blow of having to let your long time fighter go, as it prevents you cutting him and some other guy picking him up and running his legacy into the ground.

[Guest]

Oh and just to add I'be been badgering you for a long time about splitting up knees and elbows in the clinch so you don't have to throw both in order to throw elbows which would be a pretty simple change, at least in what it achieves, not nessicarily in how easy it is to code.

 

You can already do that no? All the way to the left for "elbow to the head" should do nothing but elbows, and on the same slider if you go all the way to the right for "knees to the head" you'll throw nothing but knees...I think the attack the "head and attack the body" slider is higher up in the hierarchy and that slider should keep you from just throwing knees to the head.

 

I think it's the "knees to the head" should just be named "knees" because it confuses people into thinking all they're going to do is throw knees to the head.

[sabaton]

So, I think the best solution is to add two more secondaries. One for ground and one for clinch, or maybe just two for ground.

 

wait wait wait! Another skill for Ground and another skill for MT??

 

Boxing has Punches Strike D

BJJ had Subs, Def G

 

MT already has Kicks, Knees, Elbows, Clinch, Strike D

WR Already has Takedowns, Gnp, Def G, Takedown D

 

And now you want to add MORE secondaries to the 2 skills that already have the most??? How about evening things out a bit? Why does MT need 6 secondaries and WR 5 compared to 2 each from Boxing and BJJ?

 

 

Sorry but that makes ZERO sense.

 

Adding skills to Boxing and BJJ makes a LOT MORE sense.

 

 

EDIT: I would propose that Boxing be changed to KickBoxing and have Kicks moved into that skillset. Let MT be for the clinch game.

Then move takedown offense or defense to BJJ. Let's even things up before adding more secondaries to the 2 biggest skill sets.

Edited November 4, 2012 by sabaton

[Grasman]

Boxing has Punches Strike D, + Clinch

BJJ had Subs, Def G, + "Takedowns and Takedown Defense"

 

MT already has Kicks, Knees, Elbows, Clinch, Strike D + Punches

WR Already has Takedowns, Gnp, Def G, Takedown D + Clinch

 

 

 

 

 

[minark]

if the ground guys are falling behind because they have 2 more skills to train.....just add 2 more skills for the standup guys to train. KISS

 

Edit - I agree to an extent, but I posted my thoughts below.

[minark]

wait wait wait! Another skill for Ground and another skill for MT??

 

Boxing has Punches Strike D

BJJ had Subs, Def G

 

MT already has Kicks, Knees, Elbows, Clinch, Strike D

WR Already has Takedowns, Gnp, Def G, Takedown D

 

And now you want to add MORE secondaries to the 2 skills that already have the most??? How about evening things out a bit? Why does MT need 6 secondaries and WR 5 compared to 2 each from Boxing and BJJ?

 

 

Sorry but that makes ZERO sense.

 

Adding skills to Boxing and BJJ makes a LOT MORE sense.

 

 

EDIT: I would propose that Boxing be changed to KickBoxing and have Kicks moved into that skillset. Let MT be for the clinch game.

Then move takedown offense or defense to BJJ. Let's even things up before adding more secondaries to the 2 biggest skill sets.

 

I think the issue isn't how many skills go towards each primary but more or less how many skills do you need for each type of fighter. As a stand up fighter, the only ground stats you need are takedown defense and defensive grappling. Then you need clinchwork, striking defense and one form of offense. Typically punches and with the recent change some kicks for defense. But typically a stand up boxer only needs 6 secondary skills to be very successful. Now with a MT fighter, it's hard to be successful either way. At the top, I don't even know of any MT fighters but for every one MT beast you can find probably 20 boxers between him and the next MT beast. But as for MT, you need all those same skills and elbows and/or knees on top of that. So I'll say you need 7 or 8 skills to compete.

 

So with wrestling, you need striking defense, punches, some kicks and clinch for stand up stats. On top of that, as a wrestler only you'll need takedown offense, takedown defense, defensive grappling, and ground and pound. So you really need 8 secondary skills in order to be a good ground fighter. For BJJ can be a bit more complicated as it all depends on if you want to strike first, sub when taken down or actually be the one taking him down. If you want to be the offensive BJJ fighter, you can just take out ground and pound and sub in sub offense leaving you needing 8 primaries still, but if you only want to sub when taken down you probably could bypass ground and pound and work lightly on take down defense for some. This at the minimum needs 7 skills.

 

These are obviously my opinions on what people need to be great, so they are by far the end all be all of MMATycoon. So if you disagree fine, but don't think I'm reporting this as gospel and hang me by any crosses or anything. However, the way I see it:

 

Boxers: Need 6 skills to be great

MT: Need 7 or 8 skills to be great

Wrestlers: Need 8 skills to be great.

BJJ: Need 7 or 8 skills to be great.

 

And if you think I'm wrong or completely off base, go look at some of the top of the line elite ground fighters sliders. The secondaries tickers will show you that a ground fighter needs some massive skills. So my personal opinion is that we need at the minimum one striker stat nobody else needs and then possibly 1 more stat that anyone but a wrestler needs. Wrestlers top the charts with 8 skills.

[DavyJones]

wait wait wait! Another skill for Ground and another skill for MT??

 

Boxing has Punches Strike D

BJJ had Subs, Def G

 

MT already has Kicks, Knees, Elbows, Clinch, Strike D

WR Already has Takedowns, Gnp, Def G, Takedown D

 

And now you want to add MORE secondaries to the 2 skills that already have the most??? How about evening things out a bit? Why does MT need 6 secondaries and WR 5 compared to 2 each from Boxing and BJJ?

 

 

Sorry but that makes ZERO sense.

 

Adding skills to Boxing and BJJ makes a LOT MORE sense.

 

 

EDIT: I would propose that Boxing be changed to KickBoxing and have Kicks moved into that skillset. Let MT be for the clinch game.

Then move takedown offense or defense to BJJ. Let's even things up before adding more secondaries to the 2 biggest skill sets.

 

That's why I think we need add a defensive secondary skill for the ground that the stand up guys would have to learn but the ground guys wouldn't necessarily have to. That's why I suggested the skill Escapes. A stand up guy would definitely want to have it so he could get the fight back to the feet (and increase the chance to escape subs too maybe?) but the ground guy would only need to take it if he wanted to be more rounded or had to try to escape from a superior grappler. So no big changes would need to be made to the game Mike would just have to factor in the Escape skill value into the slider calculations (offensive - stand up and counter sliders, defensive - counter and control sliders). It could be called something different but that's all I could think of right now. I just suggest Escapes because that's a term/technique they use and teach in BJJ.

 

Def Grappling to improve/control position and avoid submissions

Escapes to get the fight back to the feet and escape submissions.

 

Just throwing ideas out there.

[minark]

That's why I think we need add a defensive secondary skill for the ground that the stand up guys would have to learn but the ground guys wouldn't necessarily have to. That's why I suggested the skill Escapes. A stand up guy would definitely want to have it so he could get the fight back to the feet (and increase the chance to escape subs too maybe?) but the ground guy would only need to take it if he wanted to be more rounded or had to try to escape from a superior grappler. So no big changes would need to be made to the game Mike would just have to factor in the Escape skill value into the slider calculations (offensive - stand up and counter sliders, defensive - counter and control sliders). It could be called something different but that's all I could think of right now. I just suggest Escapes because that's a term/technique they use and teach in BJJ.

 

Def Grappling to improve/control position and avoid submissions

Escapes to get the fight back to the feet and escape submissions.

 

Just throwing ideas out there.

 

I like the idea. They're also called that in wrestling as well.

[DeadlyDirk]

You can already do that no? All the way to the left for "elbow to the head" should do nothing but elbows, and on the same slider if you go all the way to the right for "knees to the head" you'll throw nothing but knees...I think the attack the "head and attack the body" slider is higher up in the hierarchy and that slider should keep you from just throwing knees to the head.

 

I think it's the "knees to the head" should just be named "knees" because it confuses people into thinking all they're going to do is throw knees to the head.

 

What I mean is you can't throw punches to the body and head as well as mixing in some elbows to the head. If you try and do that you'll end up throwing knees as well which if you don't have them isn't a good idea.