Ticker Replacements

[Goatacre]

Quite a lot of talk since you last commented Michael, where do you stand on the current ideas now to replace tickers?

 

Seems to almost be a bit of a split regarding adding skills, I still think they are a good idea, largely because it helps to freshen things up a little.

 

Might be worth either yourself or somoene knowledeable perhaps posting an example of how a fighter might look before the changes and after the changes with the new skills added to see whether or not they are likely to make it easier for ground guys or harder.

 

I still think if you are forcing strikers to add extra ground skills then it would be a good thing. There is of course the argument that grapplers would need them too but perhaps with strikers having to round out a little more, the grapplers wouldn't need so many points in the standup game so it would balance out.

 

My name's not Michael but I'll comment anyway...

 

The essence of the skill issue is that currently grapplers need to train to a reasonable level in X number of skills, but stand-up fighters need fewer because they can ignore (to a large extent) training subs and/or GnP to a high level.

 

Therefore it seems logical that a practical amendment is to add a skill that stand-up fighters need in order to compete, but grapplers can ignore. My view is that this needs to be a ground skill, and hence something asking to "Escapes" is absolutely right: the stand-up fighter will find this a necessity (DG becomes just a positional type of skill), but grapplers can ignore unless they want some extra protection for when matched against better grapplers.

 

I don't see how a "footwork" skill for striking either leads to this outcome (because if it did then all it would mean is that stand-up fighters become even more dominant in striking exchanges) or is sufficiently differentiated from existing physicals.

 

This idea may need some tweaking to the game engine mechanics, though, so that fighters aren't able to just skimp on "escapes" and hang on for the referee's intervention. I think Italscratch commented on this in another thread: it may lead to more lay and pray tactics, but this would be a better reflection on real life anyway, even if not the most exciting!

[Guest]

how will more ground skills effect gyms? that's a question that needs considered.

 

the ground already has more skills to be coached. if you add more skills to the equation, how will things look from a gyms perspective? will it be easier to accomodate ground fighters with more skills, or harder?

 

if it woud be harder for a gym to function by adding more ground skills, then i think it's safe to say it would be more difficult for a ground fighter to be successful.

 

all in all, i think everybody is trying to overcomplicate a game that has already gotten way to overcomplicated. it just seems so simple. if you've got 5 ground skills. make 5 standup skills. if you've got 8 ground skills. make 8 standup skills. if you want 15 ground skills. make 15 standup skills. just keep it balanced and i dont see where you can mess it up

 

[edit] im not against adding skills. that would be awesome. i just think they need to be balanced out so that training time for both would be equal

[PBR]

how will more ground skills effect gyms? that's a question that needs considered.

 

the ground already has more skills to be coached. if you add more skills to the equation, how will things look from a gyms perspective? will it be easier to accomodate ground fighters with more skills, or harder?

 

if it woud be harder for a gym to function by adding more ground skills, then i think it's safe to say it would be more difficult for a ground fighter to be successful.

 

all in all, i think everybody is trying to overcomplicate a game that has already gotten way to overcomplicated. it just seems so simple. if you've got 5 ground skills. make 5 standup skills. if you've got 8 ground skills. make 8 standup skills. if you want 15 ground skills. make 15 standup skills. just keep it balanced and i dont see where you can mess it up

 

[edit] im not against adding skills. that would be awesome. i just think they need to be balanced out so that training time for both would be equal

 

depends if its a skill stand up fighter will need like escapes or something similar -- or at least i think thats where the talk was headed -- havent read every post

[Rambo]

New Skills sound like an awful idea to implement. It seemed like a reasonable "let's meet in the middle" idea at first, but the more people discuss it, the idea sounds worse and worse.

 

It may well be but the quick fix is about 10 lines of code and that's about 1000 and wouldn't be much quicker than the proper solution we'll be doing

 

Yeah but Soyster's idea seems like a great permanant fix that won't scare a bunch of people away & won't end with jacky & ed alternating blogs about how miserable the game is every month.

 

Anticipating your quick/permanant fix though, and hope it turns out well with no bugs or random glitches attatched.

[PBR]

& won't end with jacky & ed alternating blogs about how miserable the game is every month.

 

lol -- thats funny -- although not sure it would happen

 

 

edited: personally i would go with first choice just cutting the 90% back to 80% and sliding scale from there -- i dont think it will be as bad as many think it will be -- and although might lose a couple managers (which im not hoping for) i do think newer managers would stick around or more join up again knowing tickers are gone

[Kronix]

Really.. no one read my idea on how grapplers dont need to add extra skill by changing how defensive grappeling works. I see 3 post now in a row think of how can we add a skill that only affects standup guys spending points but dont put any extra points on ground guys as they already invest more skills then the standup guys. But with a tweak on how defensive grappeling works, ground skills will increase in importants for strikers and they will need to spend points on them.

 

Here it is agian!

 

I seriously think this propersition actually could work. You can still add another skill for the standup part if needed but there is really no need for a escape on the ground if the skills where used the way I suggest on the ground.

[Rambo]

lol -- thats funny -- although not sure it would happen

 

 

edited: personally i would go with first choice just cutting the 90% back to 80% and sliding scale from there -- i dont think it will be as bad as many think it will be -- and although might lose a couple managers (which im not hoping for) i do think newer managers would stick around or more join up again knowing tickers are gone

 

With the exception of turning this into a virtual computer/video game, where you actually see the fighters fight (UFC/MMA/Fight Night video game style) with graphics and all that nonsense...

 

If you want new members to stick around there's only 1 thing that's gonna make that happen & if you don't see that you're blind. ONLY 1. Multiply the training speed of secondaries:

 

useless-- to Feeble++ by 3

Mediocre-- to Respectable- by 2

Respectable+ to Remarkable++ by 1.5

 

Something like that.

 

This game doesn't have a hook, line, and sinker for people who "try it out" to see if it's something they'd like. If it don't catch them within the first 24 hours you're in trouble - and that's being extremely generous. I see noobs around and I hit em up trying to establish that "mentor figure" by offering advice, tips, etc, and 1 of the first questions they ask "how long until my fighters stats improve?" and if I honestly answer that question, it's the nail in the coffin on if they're gonna stick around and try to give it a go. Most of them expect to be fighting within 30 minutes of signing. I message anybody who uses my referal link, only 1 of them has ever replied and they asked how long until their fighter would improve and when they would have a fight. It's bad enough that it takes days before they get to see a fight - the current hook, liner, & sinker of this game - unless the individual is completely drawn into the company aspect but let's face it, most people are here for the fights. It takes weeks before they receive contracts and then it takes even longer to receive fights, takes weeks maybe months before they receive sponsorship offers,

 

If you don't realize that you need to drastically increase the training speed to keep new members around you're oblivious. Those always talking about improving the member count need to realize that the only way to do that is making it appeal via training speed (since it's the only thing that can actually happen on day 1) or accept that this game isn't for everybody; the patience, the slow progression, there's a small crowd in the gaming community that this appeals to.

 

Training speed doesn't affect me cuz I've been here, I enjoy the game for what it is, have ties to it. You look at it from a new players perspective - one that isn't lookin for a game where they can play the role of Dana White by opening up an org & going VIP on day 1 (I bet these are rare) - who's browsing the internet, stumbles across this game, and randomly signs up. You need a hook, line, & sinker for them to log back in.

 

I have 5 current referees? or whatever you call them. Pretty sure they all came from the MMA Game forums in Gamerground:

1. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76704
   
2. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76760
   
3. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76816
   
4. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76993
   
5. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=77788
   

Keep in mind that only 1 of these people have ever replied to my messages offering help, advice, cash, etc. I just can't remember which 1 it was.

 

1 shows the most promise, signed in 4 days ago.

2 has my favorite manager name out of the bunch, but he joined on the 19th, had a fight on the 21st, won, and never signed in again.

3 lasted a week

4 lasted about an hour

5 had promise. Lasted over a month QFCing. Even went as far as picking up Free agents with 0 wins and losses on their record. Reeks of desperation.

 

 

Faster training speed and 5 is prolly VIP right now, 1, not so sure but maybe. I'd bet that both of them would be more active if they had a reason to sign on every day, or even better twice a day.

 

 

Anyway, this is irrelavent to this topic, but if people are trying to throw member count into the mix, there's only 1 crippling aspect of this game that crushes the member count - and it's not tickers.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. The ground game is fine as it is, there are no need to add any secondaries related to the stand up, or the ground. Subs/GNP/TD's - they all work - against top competition. What needs minor tweaking would be the ref stand ups: ref stand up thread

[Ganja]

With the exception of turning this into a virtual computer/video game, where you actually see the fighters fight (UFC/MMA/Fight Night video game style) with graphics and all that nonsense...

 

If you want new members to stick around there's only 1 thing that's gonna make that happen & if you don't see that you're blind. ONLY 1. Multiply the training speed of secondaries:

 

useless-- to Feeble++ by 3

Mediocre-- to Respectable- by 2

Respectable+ to Remarkable++ by 1.5

 

Something like that.

 

This game doesn't have a hook, line, and sinker for people who "try it out" to see if it's something they'd like. If it don't catch them within the first 24 hours you're in trouble - and that's being extremely generous. I see noobs around and I hit em up trying to establish that "mentor figure" by offering advice, tips, etc, and 1 of the first questions they ask "how long until my fighters stats improve?" and if I honestly answer that question, it's the nail in the coffin on if they're gonna stick around and try to give it a go. Most of them expect to be fighting within 30 minutes of signing. I message anybody who uses my referal link, only 1 of them has ever replied and they asked how long until their fighter would improve and when they would have a fight. It's bad enough that it takes days before they get to see a fight - the current hook, liner, & sinker of this game - unless the individual is completely drawn into the company aspect but let's face it, most people are here for the fights. It takes weeks before they receive contracts and then it takes even longer to receive fights, takes weeks maybe months before they receive sponsorship offers,

 

If you don't realize that you need to drastically increase the training speed to keep new members around you're oblivious. Those always talking about improving the member count need to realize that the only way to do that is making it appeal via training speed (since it's the only thing that can actually happen on day 1) or accept that this game isn't for everybody; the patience, the slow progression, there's a small crowd in the gaming community that this appeals to.

 

Training speed doesn't affect me cuz I've been here, I enjoy the game for what it is, have ties to it. You look at it from a new players perspective - one that isn't lookin for a game where they can play the role of Dana White by opening up an org & going VIP on day 1 (I bet these are rare) - who's browsing the internet, stumbles across this game, and randomly signs up. You need a hook, line, & sinker for them to log back in.

 

I have 5 current referees? or whatever you call them. Pretty sure they all came from the MMA Game forums in Gamerground:

1. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76704
   
2. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76760
   
3. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76816
   
4. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76993
   
5. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=77788
   

Keep in mind that only 1 of these people have ever replied to my messages offering help, advice, cash, etc. I just can't remember which 1 it was.

 

1 shows the most promise, signed in 4 days ago.

2 has my favorite manager name out of the bunch, but he joined on the 19th, had a fight on the 21st, won, and never signed in again.

3 lasted a week

4 lasted about an hour

5 had promise. Lasted over a month QFCing. Even went as far as picking up Free agents with 0 wins and losses on their record. Reeks of desperation.

 

 

Faster training speed and 5 is prolly VIP right now, 1, not so sure but maybe. I'd bet that both of them would be more active if they had a reason to sign on every day, or even better twice a day.

 

 

Anyway, this is irrelavent to this topic, but if people are trying to throw member count into the mix, there's only 1 crippling aspect of this game that crushes the member count - and it's not tickers.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. The ground game is fine as it is, there are no need to add any secondaries related to the stand up, or the ground. Subs/GNP/TD's - they all work - against top competition. What needs minor tweaking would be the ref stand ups: ref stand up thread

I agree 100% with this. If it wasn't for my mentor, I wouldn't have stuck around. He bought me VIP and sent me a link to every noob guide. I knew right away that it would take time and effort to get to the top of the game but since I'm a huge MMA fan, I stuck with it. I have nine months playing and I definitely see myself playing this game for years. Cut back to 80% and increase the training from useless to wonderful. I feel ya Chris. Three years to get you stats up to Elite and now Mike wants to cut them. No offense Mike, but I doubt people will come back just because tickers are gone. As soon as they find out about the new system, they'll leave again. I'll give it a few weeks myself. I just started making project fighters.

 

I released some of my 25 year olds and now I'm planing to make a stable of all project fighters. Now that I have the time, money, and experience, I see myself getting far. Go with this plan, I should make everybody happy IMO.

[minark]

With the exception of turning this into a virtual computer/video game, where you actually see the fighters fight (UFC/MMA/Fight Night video game style) with graphics and all that nonsense...

 

If you want new members to stick around there's only 1 thing that's gonna make that happen & if you don't see that you're blind. ONLY 1. Multiply the training speed of secondaries:

 

useless-- to Feeble++ by 3

Mediocre-- to Respectable- by 2

Respectable+ to Remarkable++ by 1.5

 

Something like that.

 

This game doesn't have a hook, line, and sinker for people who "try it out" to see if it's something they'd like. If it don't catch them within the first 24 hours you're in trouble - and that's being extremely generous. I see noobs around and I hit em up trying to establish that "mentor figure" by offering advice, tips, etc, and 1 of the first questions they ask "how long until my fighters stats improve?" and if I honestly answer that question, it's the nail in the coffin on if they're gonna stick around and try to give it a go. Most of them expect to be fighting within 30 minutes of signing. I message anybody who uses my referal link, only 1 of them has ever replied and they asked how long until their fighter would improve and when they would have a fight. It's bad enough that it takes days before they get to see a fight - the current hook, liner, & sinker of this game - unless the individual is completely drawn into the company aspect but let's face it, most people are here for the fights. It takes weeks before they receive contracts and then it takes even longer to receive fights, takes weeks maybe months before they receive sponsorship offers,

 

If you don't realize that you need to drastically increase the training speed to keep new members around you're oblivious. Those always talking about improving the member count need to realize that the only way to do that is making it appeal via training speed (since it's the only thing that can actually happen on day 1) or accept that this game isn't for everybody; the patience, the slow progression, there's a small crowd in the gaming community that this appeals to.

 

Training speed doesn't affect me cuz I've been here, I enjoy the game for what it is, have ties to it. You look at it from a new players perspective - one that isn't lookin for a game where they can play the role of Dana White by opening up an org & going VIP on day 1 (I bet these are rare) - who's browsing the internet, stumbles across this game, and randomly signs up. You need a hook, line, & sinker for them to log back in.

 

I have 5 current referees? or whatever you call them. Pretty sure they all came from the MMA Game forums in Gamerground:

1. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76704
   
2. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76760
   
3. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76816
   
4. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=76993
   
5. http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=77788
   

Keep in mind that only 1 of these people have ever replied to my messages offering help, advice, cash, etc. I just can't remember which 1 it was.

 

1 shows the most promise, signed in 4 days ago.

2 has my favorite manager name out of the bunch, but he joined on the 19th, had a fight on the 21st, won, and never signed in again.

3 lasted a week

4 lasted about an hour

5 had promise. Lasted over a month QFCing. Even went as far as picking up Free agents with 0 wins and losses on their record. Reeks of desperation.

 

 

Faster training speed and 5 is prolly VIP right now, 1, not so sure but maybe. I'd bet that both of them would be more active if they had a reason to sign on every day, or even better twice a day.

 

 

Anyway, this is irrelavent to this topic, but if people are trying to throw member count into the mix, there's only 1 crippling aspect of this game that crushes the member count - and it's not tickers.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. The ground game is fine as it is, there are no need to add any secondaries related to the stand up, or the ground. Subs/GNP/TD's - they all work - against top competition. What needs minor tweaking would be the ref stand ups: ref stand up thread

 

I agree that training should be sped up, but I'd still like to see the skills cap. I'm not a big fan of the entire everyone reaches elite thing going on. I know some of the Jacky's are, but it just gets boring to me personally. Now I know I'm not everyone but as I can see from posts that many people agree that with the fighters reaching as high of skill levels as they do now, it's a bit less fun. So with a cap, I do agree that speeding up training would help. Not sure on the numbers, I think changing any level by a multiple of 3 might be a bit much, but I really don't know a whole lot about the training speed.

 

As far as ground game, that I do disagree with you on. You just don't look at the top end and see a lot of actual wrestlers. You can see fighters who strike and if they don't happen to get the KO, they'll attempt a few takedowns and maybe get 1 or 2, but you don't see any devastating ground fighters that much. Other than Tonal, I really can't recall every seeing a top notch, fighter of the year candidate ground fighter and Tonal was just as devastating on his feet as he was on the mat. I don't think the ground change should be drastic and I think adding some sort of escape skill and making defensive grappling "defensive transitions" or something like that would be helpful. But I still think a few skills added would freshen the game up and give a little spark to the game.

 

EDIT - And a change in stand up frequency would be great as well. Far too often stand ups can screw a ground fighters whose opponent stalls on bottom. I think the only reason a fight should be stood up is if the top fighter stalls or goes with a very low aggression. That may fix the ground problem, I'm not all too sure. Either way, I'd still love to see new skills of some sort just to get something fresh and new in here.

[Warwynd]

EDIT - And a change in stand up frequency would be great as well. Far too often stand ups can screw a ground fighters whose opponent stalls on bottom. I think the only reason a fight should be stood up is if the top fighter stalls or goes with a very low aggression. That may fix the ground problem, I'm not all too sure. Either way, I'd still love to see new skills of some sort just to get something fresh and new in here.

 

I have been of this opinion for a long time. The Stand-ups happen to fast or for the wrong reasons. In a real life fight if all the guy on the bottom does is hug and try to tie the fighter on top up then the fight does occasionally get stood up, but only if the guy on top is also inactive or ineffective. He the fighter on top is still actively working GnP or transitions and sub attempts then there is no way that fight is getting stood up. But it happens all the time in this game.

 

Something else that drives me nuts is that more often than not the fight hits the ground and the very next line is something like "The ref must be thinking about a stand-up" Um... the fight hit the ground like 2 seconds ago... give it a minute or so to see what happens OK?

 

I have lost enough fights with my ground fighters that way that I just stopped building ground fighters. It's frustrating as Hell to finally get that takedown only to have the ref stand you right back up to take more punishment to try and get the fight to the ground again. All my new fighters that I build are Sprawl and Brawl because nothing else consistently works.

[AlexiZaitev]

I can only think of a handful of 'devastating' ground fighters who made it to the top of the p4p rankings, Tonal and Michael Stehrling (or something like that) Manny Baddabing (dont know what his highest p4p ranking, but a long time grappling wizard at 185).

[fbwellman]

All I have to say is if newer players are reading this then they are getting confused as I am having trouble following all 22 pages.

 

Changing up things now does literally nothing, it helps the people currently in the game- but guys will still quit.

 

This won't make Mike anymore money simple as that, if your a business owner- why change something (even if you think its better), if its not gunna make you more dough?

 

 

Probably gunna get a bunch of replies getting angry at me about tickers and I'm not exactly supporting them- WHAT IM SAYING IS- you can't change stuff over and over, because people get used to it and it may start attracting guys but then when you switch things up people will get confused again.

 

 

Just keep changing things and see how far it gets the game

[Warwynd]

If it's broke it needs to be fixed. Tickers are broken. They do not do what they were brought about to do. My only real question at this point is how the Hell do you know what needs to be trained to prevent decline without the tickers? That part has still not been addressed.

[ajperok]

All I have to say is if newer players are reading this then they are getting confused as I am having trouble following all 22 pages.

 

Changing up things now does literally nothing, it helps the people currently in the game- but guys will still quit.

 

This won't make Mike anymore money simple as that, if your a business owner- why change something (even if you think its better), if its not gunna make you more dough?

 

 

Probably gunna get a bunch of replies getting angry at me about tickers and I'm not exactly supporting them- WHAT IM SAYING IS- you can't change stuff over and over, because people get used to it and it may start attracting guys but then when you switch things up people will get confused again.

 

 

Just keep changing things and see how far it gets the game

 

No you can't keep making massive changes.

 

However, this is one we need.

 

I'm not going anywhere I like the game, and I'm ok with the current system.

 

However, from a gamers point of view. If I join this game for the first time, and I look up and see.

Elite, Elite, Sensational, Black. and then I hear veterans talking about their 4 elite physicals and I read a few fights and I see these top fighters just matching up uber vs uber, the same guy fighting one fight like a Boxer, subbing out the next guy, head kicking the next. Sort of like the all 99 attribute guy on Madden. I might not want to play.

How appealing is it to "train a guy for over a year, to your really, really high in everything? It's not called PATIENCE TYCOON is it? Because that is all it is, if all of our fighters end up at some point really similar.

 

Now I might look up and see some awesome fighters that look like Elite, Exceptional, Wonderful, Brown. I may still have to train for over a year, but I can try to think of cool ways to create fighters to beat these guys. I can say..."hmmmm, those top 10 fighters all look like ___________, I wonder if I build this type guy if I can have a chance?

- That is an appeal that is real, and could last for a long time.

 

 

I'm not crazy about huge changes. But this game isn't very old (I've been playing a few text based sports games for over 11 years now, so they can last)... and some things take time to play out. This change will happen, it will screw things up, it will piss people off... but I think it will be a better game 6 months after it happens.

 

I JUST WANT TO GET IT OVER WITH.

[soyster89]

It may well be but the quick fix is about 10 lines of code and that's about 1000 and wouldn't be much quicker than the proper solution we'll be doing

Mike, my point in my "quick fix" post wasn't really to imply that it was - in fact - a quick fix. I just feel in the grand scheme, my points could essentially "fix" what we're hoping for without a ton of additional work, such as adding skills.

 

I'm here for the long haul, whatever route we take. Just trying to save you time and sanity.

[rac2]

Really.. no one read my idea on how grapplers dont need to add extra skill by changing how defensive grappeling works. I see 3 post now in a row think of how can we add a skill that only affects standup guys spending points but dont put any extra points on ground guys as they already invest more skills then the standup guys. But with a tweak on how defensive grappeling works, ground skills will increase in importants for strikers and they will need to spend points on them.

 

Here it is agian!

 

I seriously think this propersition actually could work. You can still add another skill for the standup part if needed but there is really no need for a escape on the ground if the skills where used the way I suggest on the ground.

 

Just wanted to highlight I loved your idea when you first thrown it out and I still love it. I think it's simple yet effective way to fix the gap between strikers and grapplers and I really believe it would work.

 

Michael, kindly request you to review his idea on the link again and consider it if you haven't already done so. Thanks!

[minark]

Just wanted to highlight I loved your idea when you first thrown it out and I still love it. I think it's simple yet effective way to fix the gap between strikers and grapplers and I really believe it would work.

 

Michael, kindly request you to review his idea on the link again and consider it if you haven't already done so. Thanks!

 

His idea doesn't really make sense unless I'm reading into it wrong. It sounds to me like he wants to add sub defense to sub offense and change it to sub technique and make defensive grappling for only positioning. It then sounds like he says ground fighters won't need defensive grappling as much because they have submissions. It just doesn't make any sense. You're not going to be hitting submissions from mount or side control, so you'll still need more defensive grappling then the other fighter whose passing positions on you at will. On top of that, a GnP wrestler will need it guaranteed because he'll be useless off of his back.

 

When the idea is broken down, it just makes no difference from what we're in now. Both strikers and grapplers will need it just as much as they do now, the only real difference is now strikers will have to have sub offense in order to defend submissions essentially making every striker also a ground fighter. I don't like it.

[Tonk]

If I am following everything correctly, I think the quick fix, or patch, is a terrible idea. The entire reason this discussion is going on is because no one liked the tickers, and Mike nerf'd them to keep even more people from leaving the game. Now the quick fix is to make it tougher to maintain them? THEN at some point in the future, we are going to get another change to a new system?

 

Why give the game 2 changes to potentially lose players over? A change isn't a bad idea, but what is the imminent rush all of a sudden to make a change NOW? How about developing whatever the new system is going to be and then make that change? Getting as few people to quit as possible should be the ultimate goal here, but if we have to go thru some time here where maintaining tickers is tougher, you KNOW guys are going to be bullshit watching their fighters lose skill. So they deteriorate slowly until the new change is put in, then they will lose some more skill in a big chunk all at once to take them under the level that gets picked. I think it would be better and overall less painful to do it in one big swoop, let guys bitch and moan, some might quit, but at least its all done.

[Kronix]

No im not saying that he Will not need def g. Im saying ground guys HAVE submissions in their arsenals and standup guys dont. Def g would be needed for both advancing position and gnp defence but to defend subs you would need submission technique.

[minark]

No im not saying that he Will not need def g. Im saying ground guys HAVE submissions in their arsenals and standup guys dont. Def g would be needed for both advancing position and gnp defence but to defend subs you would need submission technique.

 

I still don't like that it now makes everyone a submission artist seeing as how sub offense and defense are the same skill. Everyone will be forced to be sub monsters.

[Kronix]

also to clairfy. You need subs to defend as it is today but def g is the most important. By moving it to subs instead of def g an elite wrestler with elite def g, purple belt bjj and proficiant subs would now struggle against a black belt with elite subs.. just as it . is in real life. Wrestlers get caught all the time by bjj artists unless they have Good subs themselfs. Think Alan belcher.

[minark]

also to clairfy. You need subs to defend as it is today but def g is the most important. By moving it to subs instead of def g an elite wrestler with elite def g, purple belt bjj and proficiant subs would now struggle against a black belt with elite subs.. just as it . is in real life. Wrestlers get caught all the time by bjj artists unless they have Good subs themselfs. Think Alan belcher.

 

Yeah, but you need a small amount of subs and a lot of defensive grappling. With this system you'll need a lot of sub technique therefore making everyone a bjj artist. Some people may like it, but I really don't want to see a game that forces everyone to get sensational submissions just to defend an elite submission artist. Sensational submission defense, yes, but not sensational sub offense as well. By making them the same skill that is essentially what you're doing.

[Kronix]

Doesnt have to be that you need sens subs to defend good but you would need more then you need today. A wrestler with sens def grap and only competent subs does extremely well vs a black belt bjj you dont even need sens def g to accomplish that. So def ratio doesnt have to be 1:1 but it really needs to be more then it is today. Ppl keep saying there isnt a great gnp guy out there but i garantee that there are more high ranked gnpers then bjj arists in the game

[Goatacre]

Kronix - your suggestion is okay, but it isn't as effective as adding another purely defensive grappling secondary. The solution that others have discussed requires strikers to add a full new skill (to a high level, in addition to needing some subs skill to defend subs), whilst your suggestion merely requires them to bump up their subs skill.

 

The other suggestion is doing more to address the imbalance between strikers and grapplers, so I don't favour your idea.

[topologies]

I dont know if it has been said here but I would like to see escapes be high risk high reward. if you do escapes your fighter is very vulnerable to getting mounted or going to bad positions. the up side of it is that you can counter gnp or subs with escapes.