Keeping an eye on the fight engine since the changes

[Showdown]

What does? Standup damage slider has nothing to do with clinch or ground damage.

 

Oh thank god. When I read that, my brain melted!

[Guest]

So the improvements in the position in the clinch are just flavor text (i.e. underhooks and MT clinch?)

 

Yeah, if you actually read what it says it makes no sense half the time.

[Gutz]

For example lets say you are in a real fight. The guy tries to counter take you down everytime you miss a strike. Eventually you will throw a strike and just instantly sprawl because you know whats coming. It should be like that in the game. Its there for everything else. If you keep trying to adv position you end up just not doing anything. If you throw all leg kicks you eventually just miss etc. Counter TD's they are no such thing.

 

I wouldn't mind if someone was say 50/50 on it and they landed a few counter strikes and then maybe landed the counter TD. Its a lot more realistic that way instead of 100% counter td. Some striker misses, throw the overhand and counter with a swift TD and shit like that. As i said i am looking for it to get tuned down a bit. Not nerf'd. I like the counter grapple slider. I find it very much a great way of gameplanning but 100% counter td has gotta go.

+1

I think that more versatile fighter should have advantage in countering as well.

[Goatacre]

Another good example of the overpowered counter TDs: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=583541

 

Failed with every shoot takedown, but landed 5 counter TDs. So despite being able to build a hefty energy advantage through use of the counters, his TD ability clearly still wasn't that brilliant given all other TD attempts were stuffed. That is despite fighting a very canny ground game, doing just enough to keep it there, which was not much until he got to mount a couple of times.

 

However, it was plenty to get the decision, meaning the counter TDs really won him that fight. Unusually for fights I've seen, my fighter did land some counter strikes. The relative impact on the fight of the counter TDs v counter strikes though is stark.

[Erik]

The relative impact on the fight of the counter TDs v counter strikes though is stark.

 

Realistically this is only because landing a regular TD relative to a regular Strike is hell on a stick. That said, it's also weight dependant; for a heavyweight I'd honestly prefer a counter low or mid kick at high damage than a counter TD, given the rate they seem to gas out.

[Guest]

Are there others who are using and winning using counter TDs? I think I'm the poster boy for counter TDs. Not that it bothers me.

[Gutz]

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=581687

 

Sensational wrestler vs elite td defence, elite wrestling, elite speed etc.. and only 50% aggression. And down we went allmost every time.

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=578519

 

And here is another example of 100% counter td. Right now its wrestlers game.

[Guest]

Are there others who are using and winning using counter TDs? I think I'm the poster boy for counter TDs. Not that it bothers me.

 

The other day I had a match up that was a sure loser, what with me being outclassed in every category as well as almost certainly in all the physicals as well. I was so underwhelmed with the match up that I forgot to rest him properly and he went into the fight with just 90% energy. Didn't know what else to do so I set up to counter TD and lay and pray in the hopes of just not getting knocked out or badly injured. Boy was I surprised when I showed up with a win a few hours later

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=584661

 

5 out of 5 counter takedowns landed against a guy with better wrestling vs his 2 out of 14 shooting out in the open.

Although, he didn't throw any stand up in the whole fight which probably made my counters more successful as I always knew what was coming. Can you believe this won fight of the night? Haha.

 

So yeah, when all else looks dangerously unlikely, counter TD can save the day.

[PBR]

5 out of 5 counter takedowns landed against a guy with better wrestling vs his 2 out of 14 shooting out in the open.

Although, he didn't throw any stand up in the whole fight which probably made my counters more successful as I always knew what was coming. Can you believe this won fight of the night? Haha.

 

So yeah, when all else looks dangerously unlikely, counter TD can save the day.

 

one thing is counter takedowns that miss are not shown or mentioned

[aylib]

http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=581687

 

Sensational wrestler vs elite td defence, elite wrestling, elite speed etc.. and only 50% aggression. And down we went allmost every time.

 

http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=578519

 

And here is another example of 100% counter td. Right now its wrestlers game.

 

When you say 100% TD, which slider does this describe,or both? The aggression-counter, or the striking-grappling?

[Goatacre]

 

one thing is counter takedowns that miss are not shown or mentioned

 

There's no such thing, keep up. This is a large part of the problem, that there's essentially no penalty for the predictability of the 100% counter TD tactic.

[Goatacre]

 

 

When you say 100% TD, which slider does this describe,or both? The aggression-counter, or the striking-grappling?

 

It's describing the counter strike/counter grapple slider being set 100% to counter grapple, and the next slider being set to wholly counter takedown.

[Goatacre]

Are there others who are using and winning using counter TDs? I think I'm the poster boy for counter TDs. Not that it bothers me.

 

Not sure it's a tactic many people would be proud of. Perhaps just my view, but it bears similarities with the 100% counter era, which was decidedly not cool...

[aylib]

It's describing the counter strike/counter grapple slider being set 100% to counter grapple, and the next slider being set to wholly counter takedown.

Gotcha, thanks.

[Goatacre]

Realistically this is only because landing a regular TD relative to a regular Strike is hell on a stick. That said, it's also weight dependant; for a heavyweight I'd honestly prefer a counter low or mid kick at high damage than a counter TD, given the rate they seem to gas out.

 

Yep, I can understand that view for the specific case of the heavyweights. Although even there, the ground skills of those heavier fighters also tend to be lower for that very reason, so the takedown is still hugely effective.

[shortfuse122829]

http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=581687

 

Sensational wrestler vs elite td defence, elite wrestling, elite speed etc.. and only 50% aggression. And down we went allmost every time.

 

http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=578519

 

And here is another example of 100% counter td. Right now its wrestlers game.

 

What kinda takedowns does your fighter have? People seem to ignore the fact that TD's effects your TDD and that sensational wrestling and elite TDD isn't the be all end all it used to be

[Guest]

I issue for me is the disparity between the difficulty of getting a shoot takedown and a counter takedown. I know in RL the former is really harder and the latter is really easier. But is the gap that wide?

[shortfuse122829]

What kinda takedowns does your fighter have? People seem to ignore the fact that TD's effects your TDD and that sensational wrestling and elite TDD isn't the be all end all it used to be

 

Not to say wrestlers don't seem to get taken down easy too. I swear my guys with almost elite wrestling, TD's and TDD seem to get taken down as easy as the 2 SNB guys i have

[PBR]

There's no such thing, keep up. This is a large part of the problem, that there's essentially no penalty for the predictability of the 100% counter TD tactic.

 

what you mean there is no such thing? -- i just stated that cause the op seemed to think he didnt or couldnt miss a counter takedown thinking he went 5 for 5 when that is not the case or may not be the case (seeing how i dont know the slider settings he or the opponent used) cause counter misses are not recorded or noted

[PBR]

I issue for me is the disparity between the difficulty of getting a shoot takedown and a counter takedown. I know in RL the former is really harder and the latter is really easier. But is the gap that wide?

 

i would say so and think the gap is that wide in real life compared to aggressive and counter takedowns

[minark]

 

 

i would say so and think the gap is that wide in real life compared to aggressive and counter takedowns

 

There is no such thing as a counter miss on this game and not just that its not recorded. I think short fuse brought that up earlier on and that's what he means.

 

And so you think counter takedowns land 100% of the time in real life like on this game? Is that what I'm reading?

[PBR]

There is no such thing as a counter miss on this game and not just that its not recorded. I think short fuse brought that up earlier on and that's what he means.

 

And so you think counter takedowns land 100% of the time in real life like on this game? Is that what I'm reading?

 

no they dont land 100% of the time if real life but your not sure they are landing 100% of the time in this game, you just see or read the ones that do land -- honestly mike would probably be the only one to truly know -- maybe something needs to be said or shown that a counter missed nowdays -- so by counter never missing your saying you can go 100% counter strike and never miss a strike, clinch or takedown -- counter never misses anything anytime? (or should we be saying opportunity instead of counter)

 

 

edited: also im not 100% on top of the thread or game wise right now nor have read everything -- actually just dropping in once and awhile right now -- sadly had a family member had a stroke and im taking care of their 3yr old girl -- that is a full time job that is killing the shit out of me -- lol -- i love her but damn can she be a nightmare especially having her 24/7 now -- im like the grand parent sort of -- here im done playing take her home -- lol

[Guest]

Sorry to hear about that, man. Hope your family member recovers fully!

 

With that said, can you honestly say, based on the available evidence, that counter takedowns DON'T seem at least slightly overtuned? Even if counter misses DO exist, they don't seem to kill your energy the way missed "regular" takedowns do..

[PBR]

Sorry to hear about that, man. Hope your family member recovers fully!

 

With that said, can you honestly say, based on the available evidence, that counter takedowns DON'T seem at least slightly overtuned? Even if counter misses DO exist, they don't seem to kill your energy the way missed "regular" takedowns do..

 

thanks they are okay now as far as another stroke or heart problems they broke the blood clot up or whatever they do -- as for full recovery they say it wont happen, docs say 80% of the brain that controls speech and his right side are damaged -- unable to speak at all right now no use of right arm -- messed up deal especially with a 3yr old girl -- time will tell and hope with work and rehab speech and arm use will come back some though

 

on second part i can say that yea maybe they are overpowered slightly but without seeing or knowing missed ones its also hard to say 100% -- but im sure you know more cause i havent played around with settings nor ever use 100% anything -- i think it would be nice to know though the misses or total attempts or everything be it counter and offensive move -- would help in comparing i think -- like that post i quoted earlier in him saying he went 5 of 5 on counter takedowns, it truly could be he went 5 out of 15 -- maybe im wrong but its just what i get out of what mike has mentioned and some of the posts on it -- on energy hit part it should take as much energy on counter move than aggressive -- i would say maybe a little less energy than an offensive (aggressive) takedown cause your not having to charge in but not really enough worth coding or making the difference

 

edited: i do think as you mentioned before that 100% anything should be unless or easy to defend -- i guess that would also depend on your fighters iq and shig maybe -- but should be easy to defend

[Goatacre]

thanks they are okay now as far as another stroke or heart problems they broke the blood clot up or whatever they do -- as for full recovery they say it wont happen, docs say 80% of the brain that controls speech and his right side are damaged -- unable to speak at all right now no use of right arm -- messed up deal especially with a 3yr old girl -- time will tell and hope with work and rehab speech and arm use will come back some though

 

on second part i can say that yea maybe they are overpowered slightly but without seeing or knowing missed ones its also hard to say 100% -- but im sure you know more cause i havent played around with settings nor ever use 100% anything -- i think it would be nice to know though the misses or total attempts or everything be it counter and offensive move -- would help in comparing i think -- like that post i quoted earlier in him saying he went 5 of 5 on counter takedowns, it truly could be he went 5 out of 15 -- maybe im wrong but its just what i get out of what mike has mentioned and some of the posts on it -- on energy hit part it should take as much energy on counter move than aggressive -- i would say maybe a little less energy than an offensive (aggressive) takedown cause your not having to charge in but not really enough worth coding or making the difference

 

edited: i do think as you mentioned before that 100% anything should be unless or easy to defend -- i guess that would also depend on your fighters iq and shig maybe -- but should be easy to defend

 

Likewise, PBR, hope real life stuff works itself out.

 

However, on this counter TD issue you really are wrong. As Minark has said, this has already been clarified in another thread by Mike. The game engine doesn't have any form of "missed counter". That means the fighter quoted earlier definitely did go 5/5 on counter TDs. Having said that, Mike did say it's a bit more complex than that, but that's still the bottom line.