MMATycoon Posted June 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 No problem. Fight engine changes are always the scariest thing to do because there are so many things to break, that's one reason I don't do them constantly. Plus it's good to leave things to settle after each round of updates, to see how people think a particular change has affected things. If I do constant changes it's impossible to tell which change had which effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted June 2, 2013 Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 One thing to note - the gassing appears to be tied to the fighter's weight almost entirely. I'm seeing gassing in nearly 100% of HW fights, and almost never in lighter weight fights. *EDIT* I meant, as it relates to leg kicks and gassing early. Breathing heavy still happens at lighter weights, as it should, it's just typically later in fights and is due to body shots, missed TDs, and general fatigue from the fight. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Now in my latest fight I got the double whammy of both of these issues. Winded inside the first minute (probably 20-30 seconds in, after receiving three kicks). Remarkable that the fight still went to a decision, despite even being mounted later on. Then also on the receiving end of the bizarre counter takedown issue. Taken down twice on counter (although my opponent actually landed a counter strike, so wasn't 100% counter TD) whilst my fighter landed zero counters. If fighters can go 100% (or approaching that) counter TD for no energy penalty at all, succeeding at a fairly reasonable rate, then the success rate of counter strikes really needs to be reassessed. When comparing their relative success there's no doubt, based on the fights I've read so far, that counter strikes are virtually worthless while counter TDs are proving a great boon to grapplers. I don't want my posts on this to be interpreted as moaning that the old way of strikers dominating against grapplers to return. I don't. The balance of the fight engine was not right before. Takedowns are occurring at a far better rate now. It's just that the balance has swung quite significantly the other way, which is something Mike himself indicated he was concerned about when he was finalising the changes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Now in my latest fight I got the double whammy of both of these issues. Winded inside the first minute (probably 20-30 seconds in, after receiving three kicks). Remarkable that the fight still went to a decision, despite even being mounted later on. Then also on the receiving end of the bizarre counter takedown issue. Taken down twice on counter (although my opponent actually landed a counter strike, so wasn't 100% counter TD) whilst my fighter landed zero counters. If fighters can go 100% (or approaching that) counter TD for no energy penalty at all, succeeding at a fairly reasonable rate, then the success rate of counter strikes really needs to be reassessed. When comparing their relative success there's no doubt, based on the fights I've read so far, that counter strikes are virtually worthless while counter TDs are proving a great boon to grapplers. I don't want my posts on this to be interpreted as moaning that the old way of strikers dominating against grapplers to return. I don't. The balance of the fight engine was not right before. Takedowns are occurring at a far better rate now. It's just that the balance has swung quite significantly the other way, which is something Mike himself indicated he was concerned about when he was finalising the changes. My only concern with this analysis is I feel like you're not taking into effect how the energy levels factor into whether you counter or not. I have around 16 wrestlers on my roster & a lot of times I am using my TD's more to set up my striking then I am worried about finishing the fight on the ground. Occasionally w/ my wrestlers I will counter against a better striker, hoping that I can land that early TD to give me the energy advantage and hopefully set up more counters by making him miss (since I am the fresher fighter) http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=551388 There is an example, I countered in that fight & had I not kept my opponent down the entire first round this fight probably wouldn't have worked out for me. My first TD wasn't a counter TD but a normal one. By landing that TD and getting the energy levels I set up 2 counter TD's for myself later in the fight. In this fight my opponent didn't land any counter/strikes either despite being the better striker. If he'd forced a quick ref stand-up on that 1st TD though he probably would've started chopping me down and forced me to start throwing and missing, thus eating counter shots. So a fight where you are gassed after 3 leg kicks probably isn't the best fight to gauge counter/striking IMO On the opposite side of the spectrum, in this fight my best friend Blunts fought a wrestler, but was landing heavy shots early on and landed two counter strikes (one counter combo that ended the fight) in the first 3 minutes of round 1. Oh and he was pushing pretty close to 70 aggression, so not even on the "counter" side of sliders looking to land counters. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=563810 I have had fights where I landed 3-5 counter strikes while pushing between 65-70 aggression, but I was really working my opponent over. I think people are just over-looking an important factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 My only concern with this analysis is I feel like you're not taking into effect how the energy levels factor into whether you counter or not. I have around 16 wrestlers on my roster & a lot of times I am using my TD's more to set up my striking then I am worried about finishing the fight on the ground. Occasionally w/ my wrestlers I will counter against a better striker, hoping that I can land that early TD to give me the energy advantage and hopefully set up more counters by making him miss (since I am the fresher fighter) http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=551388 There is an example, I countered in that fight & had I not kept my opponent down the entire first round this fight probably wouldn't have worked out for me. My first TD wasn't a counter TD but a normal one. By landing that TD and getting the energy levels I set up 2 counter TD's for myself later in the fight. In this fight my opponent didn't land any counter/strikes either despite being the better striker. If he'd forced a quick ref stand-up on that 1st TD though he probably would've started chopping me down and forced me to start throwing and missing, thus eating counter shots. So a fight where you are gassed after 3 leg kicks probably isn't the best fight to gauge counter/striking IMO On the opposite side of the spectrum, in this fight my best friend Blunts fought a wrestler, but was landing heavy shots early on and landed two counter strikes (one counter combo that ended the fight) in the first 3 minutes of round 1. Oh and he was pushing pretty close to 70 aggression, so not even on the "counter" side of sliders looking to land counters. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=563810 I have had fights where I landed 3-5 counter strikes while pushing between 65-70 aggression, but I was really working my opponent over. I think people are just over-looking an important factor Sorry, yes I wasn't meaning to hold up my last fight as the best example of the counter issue, moreso the early gassing issue. Then once that had happened, the fight was exacerbated by the counter TD/lack of counter strike issue. In the first fight you quoted, I understand and agree with your analysis that your early TD and keeping the fight on the ground definitely gained you a convincing early lead. I disagree that he would have landed any/many counter strikes later if he'd managed to get up quickly in the first. In the other fight, and the ones you mentioned of your own where a few more counter strikes were landed, they were not even fights on the feet, so counter strikes landing is to be expected. Particularly once they manage to get a start and avoid being taken down early on, then they can potentially get on a roll. It also helps with the fight you linked the better striker was also heavy handed so was clearly dominating and dishing out a lot of damage. Not sure that 2:24 is necessarily the best case study anyway, as it seems clearly to have been a mismatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylib Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Are standups typically caused by lack of aggression or finish attempts, or combination of both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Artie Lange was knocked the fook out in his last fight. Stand up r broken! This game is rigged, and Mike is a no good bum!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronix Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 I got 2 wierd things happening in my latest fight: http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=568841 1) my fighter got cut from a leg kick, first thing that happens in round 3? Do cuts happen on the entire body or is this something funky? 2) My guy has abysmal submissions so I put him on 100% GNP, I got screenshot of tactics if need. I'm losing badly but right before the 4 min warning min my guy manages to reverse and gets top position and in the very last min of the round full mount! he's firing away all kinds of shots and right at the end... he goes for a submission? I probably would have lost anyways but maybe 2-3 shots could have scored me the KO instead so that kinda sucks as my fighter also lost position going for a sub he shouldn't even have attempted. shig was 70% but both ground and top sliders have 100% GNP, I always set them using phone tactics so it's guaranteed 1 on GNP. I'm guessing this has something to with swing for the fences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 The cut happened the last move of the round before. It's a weird quirk of how it's set up... if the last move of the round causes a cut, the bit that displays commentary for that cut doesn't kick in until after the next move. Sorry about the sub if he was at 100% GNP. I assume you haven't changed your sliders since the fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronix Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 nope, haven't changed anything incase you wanted to have a look at them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CusDamato Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 I got 2 wierd things happening in my latest fight: http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=568841 1) my fighter got cut from a leg kick, first thing that happens in round 3? Do cuts happen on the entire body or is this something funky? 2) My guy has abysmal submissions so I put him on 100% GNP, I got screenshot of tactics if need. I'm losing badly but right before the 4 min warning min my guy manages to reverse and gets top position and in the very last min of the round full mount! he's firing away all kinds of shots and right at the end... he goes for a submission? I probably would have lost anyways but maybe 2-3 shots could have scored me the KO instead so that kinda sucks as my fighter also lost position going for a sub he shouldn't even have attempted. shig was 70% but both ground and top sliders have 100% GNP, I always set them using phone tactics so it's guaranteed 1 on GNP. I'm guessing this has something to with swing for the fences I always thought using 100% anything was useless when using see how it goes, If he did everything that you told him to do on see how it goes then what is the actual point of SHIG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 I always thought using 100% anything was useless when using see how it goes, If he did everything that you told him to do on see how it goes then what is the actual point of SHIG. well say you have set to 10% takedowns, kicks, clinchwork or whatever -- and he sees he can get the better of the fight there then he might change it to 60% or try more often then the 10% -- but if you have something set to 100% like stay standing he shouldnt try a takedown no matter what -- now if he is at 99.5% he might try the takedown if you shig any Follow my orders vs See how it goes: During a fight, your fighter will assess how well he thinks he is doing in each area of the fight (standing, clinch and ground work). Depending on how intelligent and experienced he is, he may decide to change his gameplan. However, if you don't want him to change his gameplan at all, you can say so using this tactic slider. The only exception is if you tell your fighter to never do something (e.g. never go to the ground). If that's the case, no matter how badly he's doing in the other aspects of the game, he won't take it to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CusDamato Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 I see, good to know., I have always used follow my orders 100% so i didn't really know how it worked exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 I've seen a lot of weird judging decisions lately. And some funny commentary on judging. I seen a fight yesterday and one today, where it said one guy won each round, and it says surely the decision will go to so and so but one fight ended in a draw and the other fight ended in the other guy winning. I wonder is the purpose to this to simulate real life judging? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 That has nothing to do with recent changes, it's just random bad / good luck. Nothing has changed on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I've seen a lot of weird judging decisions lately. And some funny commentary on judging. I seen a fight yesterday and one today, where it said one guy won each round, and it says surely the decision will go to so and so but one fight ended in a draw and the other fight ended in the other guy winning. I wonder is the purpose to this to simulate real life judging? lol Sometimes I have to wonder if there is code in the engine to represent Cecil Peoples: leg kicks don't finish fights either!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Sometimes I have to wonder if there is code in the engine to represent Cecil Peoples: leg kicks don't finish fights either!! yes there are bad judges in the system and same with the commenter getting it wrong sometimes -- just like real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 yes there are bad judges in the system and same with the commenter getting it wrong sometimes -- just like real life We've raised this on another thread (sorry, it's a bit off-topic here) but does the commentator ever get it wrong? Ivenever seen Mike say he does, so I've always worked on the assumption that the commentator gets it right without fail otherwise features like SFF and FFD would be affected. Judging is a separate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 features like SFF and FFD would be affected im not 100% sure but i think those are based on what the fighter himself thinks (might be based on intelligence/experience) -- i have seen where the commentator says "he knows he needs a finish here" -- but yet all 3 judges score for him -- hard to say if was 3 bad judges or if commentator had it wrong -- i would probably lean towards commentator -- but i guess only mike would truly know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 here is a recent one the other day i had -- http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=581690 -- commentator had other guy winning the fight also has these lines in text on last round Richard Hickock has stepped it up - he knows he needs a finish here! Charlie Luciano is fighting for a decision - hopefully he's judged it right and he's actually winning the fight. two judges gave Hickock the fight -- probably not the best example but have seen where all 3 judges gave the win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Mike there must be sumin wrong with the engine because i am losing all my fights - I won more when i barely even checked up on the site.. Sort it out would ya! Jesus man! Cheers, bye. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 guess it was closer than I thought with first read. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Mike there must be sumin wrong with the engine because i am losing all my fights - I won more when i barely even checked up on the site.. Sort it out would ya! Jesus man! Cheers, bye. This was a joke during a moment of rage after yet another loss, just so you ho's know. I don't actually wanna start a 'why did i lose' thread. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 yes there are bad judges in the system and same with the commenter getting it wrong sometimes -- just like real life This has always been a sticking point of mine, at least for as long as I've heard about it, since people are constantly told not to expect the game to function as if it were IRL, BUT the judges are programmed to be idiots from time to time to reflect real life. IMO this is the one thing this game should be able to accomplish 100% of the time being that it's based off numbers and math. Their should never be a dodgy decision where a guy loses just because there is a silly judge. There are also other things I feel need to be addressed but I will reserve them for later as this is enough to create some convo for now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Mike can you confirm or not that going 100% counter td does sap your energy with missed counter tds? and that tds take more than 0.1% of your energy? Its just i noticed it in my fight tonight but its been happening an awful lot where going 100% counter td means you land a td per round and basically win the fight. Only way around it is by going 100% counter so they cannot counter TD you and well that shit just isn't fun at all. I know counter td's are there to make it fairer for the grapplers but as you alerted to you have overpowered it. Its at the stage now where the only way to stop it is going back to the counter era and even then chances are you are gonna get taken down if they have td's in there gameplan. Either turn it down or make a bigger % of energy sapped for unsuccessful tds and unsuccessful counter tds. at least give strikers a chance to keep the fight standing. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=573975 http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=578979 http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=568050 Just a couple of times where the person has went 100% counter td. I am sure they are many more cases of it but the fights been stopped in the first round. It just gets frustrating knowing the only way to beat it is 100% counter and makes fights not very interesting to read. May sound like a rant because i just lost but i made it clear when i first noticed it to alliance mates just now i feel like commenting on it because its happened to me. Surprised they aren't a lot of complaints made about it. I know exactly why i lost. He went 100% counter td. I never went 100% counter. I only managed to block 6 out of 14 of the tds. Only one of which was not a counter takedown. So yeah if you can take a look into it and maybe see about making it more energy expended on going for counter td's that actually fail or some shit? Because the way it is the now they will land a counter td near enough every round no matter what the skills are. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=547047 I done it against Otso when the engine first started. Apart from when people clinch you do actually land one per round sometimes two. I still lost the fight thankfully cause that would just have felt dirty if i had won. I only done it then because it was one of the first fights of the new engine. Since then i have never used the 100% counter td. maybe i should? but then it just isn't that fun of a idea to shoot for counter td's constantly. Just seems like an exploit. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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