Keeping an eye on the fight engine since the changes

[markyosullivan]

It's nearly a year since people were mentioning the counter takedown problem, not sure if that has been addressed was quickly trying to read over the past couple of pages

[MMATycoon]

Right now we have the manager rankings and the TWGC scoring are in the works. After that I am going to redo the scoring of fights entirely and at the same time, work on some tweaks to takedowns / clinchwork etc.

[shortfuse122829]

 

 

I have to completely disagree with you here. The fight I linked spent about 18 mins on the ground w/ my opponent landing 6 out 26 GNP and 0 out of 7 sub attempts.

 

I was 3 out of 10 GNP and 0 out 2 submissions.

 

That means there were a total of 48 offensive moves attempted on the ground with just 9 landing. That is an average of 0.5 strikes landed of 2.67 moves attempted per minute.

 

This is a lot of information I am about to link because I wanted to find examples of the amount of moves attempted striking when comparing UFC to tycoon and then show how big of a difference it is when comparing it to the ground game......so let me first start w/ the striking....

 

The following information is a total of 15 fights from the last 3 UFC events followed by 15 fights over the last 3 Evolution events....

 

Jones vs. Gustaffson

 

Time striking @ range: 23:40

Jones total strikes landed/thrown: 127/208

Gustaffson total strikes landed/thrown: 108/263

Total strikes landed/thrown: 235/471

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 9.93/19.9

 

Barao vs. Wineland

 

Time striking @ range: 5:10

Barao total strikes landed/thrown: 25/41

Wineland total strikes landed/thrown: 11/53

Total strikes landed/thrown: 36/94

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.97/18.2

 

Healy vs. Nurmagomedov

 

Time striking @ range: 8:05

Healy total strikes landed/thrown: 42/155

Nurmagomedov total strikes landed/thrown: 44/111

Total strikes landed/thrown: 86/266

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 10.64/32.91

 

Ricci vs. Jury

 

Time striking @ range: 8:20

Ricci total strikes landed/thrown: 14/84

Jury total strikes landed/thrown: 20/70

Total strikes landed/thrown: 34/154

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.08/18.49

 

Menjivar vs. Reis

 

Time spent striking @ range: 7:45

Menjivar total strikes landed/thrown: 18/49

Reis total strikes landed/thrown: 14/66

Total strikes landed/thrown: 32/115

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.13/14.84

 

Okami vs. Souza

 

Time spent striking @ range: 2:20

Okami total strikes landed/thrown: 1/11

Souza total strikes landed/thrown: 7/13

Total strikes landed/thrown: 8/24

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 3.43/10.3

 

Benavidez vs. Formiga

 

Time spent striking @ range: 3:05

Benavidez total strikes landed/thrown: 16/46

Formiga total strikes landed/thrown: 5/17

Total strikes landed/thrown: 21/63

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.81/20.43

 

Trinaldo vs. Hallman

 

Time spent striking @ range: 4:36

Trinaldo total strikes landed/thrown: 22/43

Hallman total strikes landed/thrown: 22/65

Total strikes landed/thrown: 44/108

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 9.57/23.48

 

Vinicius vs. Bagautinov

 

Time spent striking @ range: 6:26

Vinicius total strikes landed/thrown: 11/30

Bagautinov total strikes landed/thrown: 12/34

Total strikes landed/thrown: 23/64

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 3.58/9.95

 

Arantes vs. Souza

 

Time spent striking @ range: 10:16

Arantes total strikes landed/thrown: 23/61

Souza total strikes landed/thrown: 45/123

Total strikes landed/thrown: 68/184

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.62/17.92

 

Mendes vs. Guida

 

Time spent striking @ range: 7:11

Mendes total strikes landed/thrown: 15/47

Guida total strikes landed/thrown: 16/98

Total strikes landed/thrown: 31/145

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.32/20.19

 

Rothwell vs. Vera

 

Time spent striking @ range: 5:15

Rothwell total strikes landed/thrown: 35/75

Vera total strikes landed/thrown: 29/49

Total strikes landed/thrown: 64/124

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 12.19/23.62

 

Koch vs. Poirier

 

Time spent striking @ range: 4:00

Koch total strikes landed/thrown: 13/53

Poirier total strikes landed/thrown: 19/49

Total strikes landed/thrown: 32/102

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 8/25.5

 

Varner vs. Tibau

 

Time spent striking @ range: 7:20

Varner total strikes landed/thrown: 21/52

Tibau total strikes landed/thrown: 9/34

Total strikes landed/thrown: 30/86

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.09/11.73

 

Gaudinot vs. Elliot

 

Time spent striking @ range: 5:33

Guidinot total strikes landed/thrown: 23/69

Elliot total strikes landed/thrown: 34/74

Total strikes landed/thrown: 57/143

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 10.27/25.77

 

UFC totals:

 

Time spent striking at range: 114:35

Total strike attempts: 2,143

Total strikes landed: 801

Avg strikes landed/thrown per minute: 6.99/18.7

 

 

 

 

Marciano vs. Breaker

 

Time spent striking @ range: 14:05

Marciano total strikes landed/thrown: 61/131

Breaker total strikes landed/thrown: 49/78

Total strikes landed/thrown: 110/209

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 7.81/14.84

 

Higashikuni vs. Power

 

Time spent striking @ range: 11:40

Higashakuni total strikes landed/thrown: 26/52

Power total strikes landed/thrown: 35/92

Total strikes landed/thrown: 51/144

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.37/12.34

 

Fernandez vs. Miguel Batista

 

Time spent striking @ range: 4:58

Fernandez total strikes landed/thrown: 29/40

Batista total strikes landed/thrown: 11/36

Total strikes landed/thrown: 40/76

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 8.05/15.3

 

Sam Hall vs. Karri Vahti

 

Time spent striking @ range: 12:00

Hall total strikes landed/thrown: 34/69

Vahti total strikes landed/thrown: 26/62

Total strikes landed/thrown: 60/131

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 5/10.92

 

Puska vs. Grayson

 

Time spent striking @ range: 20:00

Puska total strikes landed/thrown: 37/117

Grayson total strikes landed/thrown: 75/125

Total strikes landed/thrown: 112/242

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 5.6/12.1

 

Orange vs. Narushima

 

Time spent striking @ range: 7:30

Orange total strikes landed/thrown: 15/38

Narushima total strikes landed/thrown: 33/71

Total strikes landed/thrown: 48/109

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.4/14.5

 

Barry vs. Logic

 

Time spent striking @ range: 4:00

Barry total strikes landed/thrown: 15/39

Logic total strikes landed/thrown: 21/33

Total strikes landed/thrown: 36/72

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 9/18

 

Miller vs. Griffin

 

Time spent striking @ range: 13:45

Miller total strikes landed/thrown: 17/64

Griffin total strikes landed/thrown: 87/125

Total strikes landed/thrown: 104/189

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 7.56/13.75

 

Tolonen vs. Bomb

 

Time spent striking @ range: 3:30

Tolonen total strikes landed/thrown: 7/23

Bomb total strikes landed/thrown: 9/20

Total strikes landed/thrown: 16/43

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.57/12.29

 

McThornbody vs. Juntunen

 

Time spent striking @ range: 10:45

McThornbody total strikes landed/thrown: 57/88

Juntunen total strikes landed/thrown: 26/71

Total strikes landed/thrown: 83/159

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 7.72/14.79

 

Gunn vs. Kytta

 

Time spent striking @ range: 7:57

Gunn total strikes landed/thrown: 3/10

Kytta total strikes landed/thrown: 34/51

Total strikes landed/thrown: 37/61

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 4.65/7.67

 

Ashantie vs. Goodridge

 

Time spent striking @ range: 6:15

Goodridge total strikes landed/thrown: 2/16

Ashantie total strikes landed/thrown: 36/50

Total strikes landed/thrown: 38/66

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.08/10.56

 

Fernandez vs. Ruanti

 

Time spent striking @ range: 3:30

Fernandez total strikes landed/thrown: 20/32

Ruanti total strikes landed/thrown: 6/18

Total strikes landed/thrown: 26/50

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 7.43/14.29

 

Gracie vs. Seagull

 

Time spent striking @ range: 5:30

Gracie total strikes landed/thrown: 9/16

Seagull total strikes landed/thrown: 20/43

Total strikes landed/thrown: 29/59

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 5.27/10.73

 

Grunt vs. Reyes

 

Time spent striking @ range: 7:00

Grunt total strikes landed/thrown: 36/65

Reyes total strikes landed/thrown: 10/51

Total strikes landed/thrown: 46/116

Avg strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.57/16.57

 

Tycoon Totals:

 

Time spent striking @ range: 139:25

Total strikes thrown: 1726

Total strikes landed: 836

Average strikes landed/thrown per min: 6.0/12.38

 

 

When comparing the activity of a UFC fight compared to a Tycoon fight the UFC fighter thrown on average 150% of the ATTEMPTED strikes of the tycoon fighter but the amount of strikes landed per minute is very close actually.....

 

Let's move on to the ground. Going to use a separate post for this....

[shortfuse122829]

My thrown/landed are reversed in these statistics and should read landed/thrown. My apologies

 

UFC Ground stats:

 

 

 

Michael Prazeres vs. Jesse Ronson

 

Time on ground: 7:17

Prazeres GNP thrown/landed: 31/34

Ronson GNP thrown/landed: 11/14

Total strikes thrown/landed: 42/48

Average strikes thrown/landed per min: 5.73/6.55

 

Costa Phillipou vs. Francis Carmont

 

Time on ground: 12:05

Phillipou GNP thrown/landed: 8/9

Carmont GNP thrown/landed: 81/104

Total strikes thrown/landed: 89/113

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 7.36/9.35

 

Healy vs. Nurmagomedov

 

Time on ground: 5:00

Healy GNP thrown/landed: 15/18

Nurmagomedov GNP thrown/landed: 40/45

Average strikes thrown/landed per min: 11 /12.6

 

Ricci vs. Jury

 

Time on ground: 5:35

Ricci GNP thrown/landed: 16/19

Jury GNP thrown/landed: 7/12

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 4.18/5.63

 

Menjivar vs. Reis

 

Time on ground: 5:57

Menjivar GNP thrown/landed: 53/58

Reis GNP thrown/landed: 55/71

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 18/21.5

 

Trinaldo vs. Hallman

 

Time on ground: 2:52

Trinaldo GNP thrown/landed: 2/3

Hallman GNP thrown/landed: 29/36

Total GNP thrown/landed: 31/39

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 10.88/13.68

 

Vinicius vs. Bagautinov

 

Time on ground: 4:47

Vinicius GNP thrown/landed: 24/28

Bagautinov GNP thrown/landed: 23/33

Total GNP thrown/landed: 47/61

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 9.79/12.7

 

Arantes vs. Souza

 

Time on ground: 2:57

Arantes GNP thrown/landed: 43/52

Souza GNP thrown/landed: 3/3

Total GNP thrown/landed: 46/55

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 15.59/18.64

 

Zeferino vs. Silverio

 

Time on ground: 4:22

Zeferino GNP thrown/landed: 7/7

Silverio GNP thrown/landed: 32/50

Total GNP thrown/landed: 39/57

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 8.94/13.07

 

Mendes vs. Guida

 

Time on ground: 3:01

Mendes GNP thrown/landed: 20/22

Guida GNP thrown/landed: 2/2

Total GNP thrown/landed: 22/24

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 7.33/8

 

Koch vs. Poirier

 

Time on ground: 7:43

Koch GNP thrown/landed: 17/18

Poirier GNP thrown/landed: 36/41

Total GNP thrown/landed: 53/59

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 6.87/7.64

 

Varner vs. Tibau

 

Time on ground: 7:07

Varner GNP thrown/landed: 38/48

Tibau GNP thrown/landed: 43/46

Total GNP thrown/landed: 81/94

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 11.36/13.18

 

Gaudinot vs. Elliot

 

Time on ground: 8:35

Gaudinot GNP thrown/landed: 12/16

Elliot GNP thrown/landed: 198/272

Total GNP thrown/landed: 210/288

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 24.46/33.55

 

Camus vs. Kang

 

Time on ground: 11:51

Camus GNP thrown/landed: 53/73

Kang GNP thrown/landed: 113/133

Total GNP thrown/landed: 166/206

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 14.03/17.41

 

Palelei vs. Krylov

 

Time on ground: 6:19

Palelei GNP thrown/landed: 75/89

Krylov GNP thrown/landed: 22/22

Total GNP thrown/landed: 97/111

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 15.32/17.53

 

 

UFC TOTALS:

 

Total time on ground: 103:09

Total ground strikes thrown: 1,371

Total ground strikes landed: 1,136

Average strikes landed/thrown per min: 11.01/13.29

 

 

Tycoon Ground stats:

 

Grunt vs. Reyes

 

Time on ground: 6:00

Grunt GNP thrown/landed: 7/18

Reyes GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total GNP thrown/landed: 7/18

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 1.17/3.0

 

Gracie vs. Seagull

 

Time on ground: 7:30

Gracie GNP thrown/landed: 5/23

Seagull GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total GNP thrown/landed: 5/23

Avg strikes thrown/landed: .67/3.07

 

Clement vs. Oreilly

 

Time on ground: 10:00

Clement GNP thrown/landed: 4/20

Oreilly GNP thrown/landed: 9/16

Total GNP thrown/landed: 13/36

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 1.3/3.6

 

Ashantie vs. Goodridge

 

Time on ground: 6:40

Goodridge GNP thrown/landed: 10/43

Ashantie GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total GNP thrown/landed: 10/43

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: 1.5/6.45

 

Cullen vs. Khanomtom

 

Time on ground: 2:30

Cullen GNP thrown/landed: 0/1 sub: 0/1

Khanomtom GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total moves thrown/landed: 0/2

Total moves thrown/landed per min: 0/0.8

 

Nazarethyan vs. Sting

 

Time on ground: 6:45

Nazarethyan GNP thrown/landed: 4/4

Sting GNP thrown/landed: 1/5 subs: 0/3

Total moves thrown/landed: 5/12

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: .74/1.78

 

Tolonen vs. Bomb

 

Time on ground: 5:25

Tolonen GNP thrown/landed: 2/10

Bomb GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total GNP thrown/landed: 2/10

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: .37/1.85

 

Stehling vs. Blockson

 

Time on ground: 6:20

Stehling GNP thrown/landed: 14/16

Blockson GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total GNP thrown/landed: 14/16

Avg GNP thrown/landed per min: 2.21/2.53

 

Miller vs. Griffin

 

Time on ground: 6:15

Griffin GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Miller GNP thrown/landed: 4/21

Total GNP thrown/landed: 4/21

Avg GNP thrown/landed per min: .64/3.36

 

Randolph vs. Varvaskoukku

 

Time on ground: 10:00

Randolph GNP thrown/landed: 3/5 sub: 0/2

Varvaskoukku GNP thrown/landed: 13/25 sub: 1/2

Total moves thrown/landed: 17/34

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: 1.7/3.4

 

Puska vs. Grayson

 

Time on ground: 3:00

Puska GNP thrown/landed: 0/0 sub: 0/2

Grayson GNP thrown/landed: 0/1

Total moves thrown/landed: 0/3

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: 0/1

 

Dawkins vs. Hunt

 

Time on ground: 6:40

Dawkins GNP thrown/landed: 4/11 sub: 1/5

Hunt GNP thrown/landed: 0/0

Total moves thrown/landed: 5/16

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: .75/2.4

 

Nieto vs. Soloyvev

 

Time on ground: 3:05

Nieto GNP thrown/landed: 0/1 sub: 0/2

Soloyvev GNP thrown/landed: 0/2 sub: 0/1

Total moves thrown/landed: 0/6

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: 0/2

 

Smokeleaf vs. Soderberg

 

Time on ground: 12:30

Smokleaf GNP thrown/landed: 0/6 sub: 0/9

Soderberg GNP thrown/landed: 15/21 sub: 0/11

Total moves thrown/landed: 15/47

Avg moves thrown/landed per min: 1.2/3.76

 

Higashikuni vs. Power

 

Time on ground: 8:20

Higashikuni GNP thrown/landed: 2/11 sub: 0/2

Power GNP thrown/landed: 7/12

Total moves thrown/landed: 9/25

Average moves thrown/landed per min: 1.08/3

 

Tycoon Totals:

 

Total Time Spent on ground: 102:40

Total Ground strikes thrown: 330

Total Ground strikes landed: 96

Avg strikes thrown/landed per min: .94/3.21

 

 

Okay so the difference in attempts thrown on the feet when comparing UFC vs. Tycoon is the UFC throws about 150% more moves then the tycoon fighter w/ the strikes landed per minute being very similar to each other.

 

The difference in activity when comparing the UFC vs. Tycoon on the ground is massive. The UFC fighter averages almost 400% of the moves of the tycoon fighter and the averages when comparing the strikes landed per minute on the ground is a complete joke.

 

 

 

I really think the activity on the ground still needs to be increased by quite a lot of moves. I think this needs to happen either way just so it's more comparable to real life but I especially think it would stop the 1 or 2 TD's wins the round just because of how quickly minutes go by w/ such little action happening on the ground. The way the fight engine works right now a TD to side-control is almost an auto 3 mins on the ground an a fair amount of the time it leads to the fight staying on the ground the rest of the round.

 

By increasing the # of moves on the ground you would give strikers more time to work back to their feet and have a chance at winning back the round (assuming that the stand-ups happen in the same # of MOVES and not the same # of minutes on the ground). If on average it takes a striker 2 minutes to get back to his feet and the ground text was doubled where it is now IDEALLY that would lead to that ref stand-up happening in 1 minute. Same # of moves but less time due to increased activity.

 

 

I think the way TD's are scored is completely over-powered and the way that energy works from laying on your back while your opponent humps your leg (& lands almost 0 GNP) is too big of a hit.

 

If we're comparing to the UFC again I don't think 2 minutes of a guy laying on you while landing almost nothing would have such a drastic effect on a UFC fighters cardio as it does a tycoon fighters.

[shortfuse122829]

I re-posted the points I made prior to this so I don't have to re-do all the research. If there is anything in it that needs further explained or hashed out then just let me know

[minark]

Right now we have the manager rankings and the TWGC scoring are in the works. After that I am going to redo the scoring of fights entirely and at the same time, work on some tweaks to takedowns / clinchwork etc.

 

Do you have any plans to tweak GnP?

[Guest]

Geez Short wordy much?! But very good points made thru fact based statistical analysis. I agree 99.352% since it's statistically impossible to agree 100%.

[MMATycoon]

I'll have a look at lots of fight engine stuff after TWGC and manager rankings changes.

[JLP]

I'll have a look at lots of fight engine stuff after TWGC and manager rankings changes.

The most important thing would have to be fixing the body shot/leg kick gassing issues. LHW/HW/SHW are all just a rush to gas your opponent now. These divisions are pretty much garbage at this point due to the broken gassing issues. It's ridiculous that a fighter can be gassed 2 minutes into a fight by one leg kick, a kick to the body and one knee in the clinch.

I thought we were going for realism? The game has been like this for a while now and it's incredibly idiotic.

[Guest]

Leg kicks, clinchwork and counter takedown to be looked at?

[MMATycoon]

yup. rescoring first, then those things.

[Guest]

yup. rescoring first, then those things.

 

It's been days since this post was made, have you fixed everything yet? ANSWER ME!!!

[MMATycoon]

shut your face.

[duphus]

Step 1: Go to Home Depot

Step 2: buy a cactus

Step 3: Shove that cactus up your ass

 

Fixed that for ya, Mike

[MMATycoon]

That would be a waste of a cactus. I like cactuses.

[aylib]

Edit: deleted.

[Guest]

I believe it's CACTI.

[MMATycoon]

I believe it's CACTI.

Make your way to google immediately and do not pass go

 

or if you are too lazy, here you go;

 

Cacti vs. cactuses

Cacti is the Latin plural of cactus, and some writers use it in English. Cactuses is the English plural. Dictionaries list both, and neither is right or wrong. Also, like many names of plants, the uninflected cactus is sometimes treated as plural.

The prevalence of the Latin cacti can be attributed to the influence of Latin on biological nomenclature. These Latin plurals are not considered out of place in botany and other scientific fields, and some make their way into broader usage, but there’s no good reason that the ordinary English speaker should have to abide by the rules of Latin grammar.

Cactus is not the only Latin-derived English word ending in –us, and most are conventionally pluralized in the English manner. Fungus, like cactus, often becomes fungi (though funguses is just as good), but this is one of the few exceptions. Most English speakers don’t say ani instead of anuses, apparati instead of apparatuses, campi instead of campuses, octopi instead of octopuses, stati instead of statuses, or viri instead viruses, and there’s no reason cactus should be any didfferent. It’s a matter of preference, though, and cacti is not wrong.

[Guest]

We should say "ani" to be honest.

[topologies]

Fight engine. 10% increase to energy recovery per move, to try and prevent excessive gassing of fighters.

 

would this mean sub spamming will be an issue again?

[Scooby]

Im not against the change but i noticed i cant gas people anymore and i NEVER was a leg kick spammer.

[topologies]

Im not against the change but i noticed i cant gas people anymore and i NEVER was a leg kick spammer.

I think you just have bad luck I gassed somebody in the clinch.

[Stu_Pidasol]

Fight engine. 10% increase to energy recovery per move, to try and prevent excessive gassing of fighters.

 

would this mean sub spamming will be an issue again?

See HW division the 10% hasn't helped.

[duphus]

Stu, I don't have many HW's but it seems that it has helped the lower weights. I gassed a guy in the clinch and he seemed to recover much much quicker then before, think me and dinooo talked about it in chat: He also thought it helped but not completely fixed but better.

[phoenixfarts]

I don't know if this is an issue or not since I've just joined, but my fighter knocks out the opponent in 0:29 with a head kick and my fighter's the one that's injured for 11 days?!