TUF 18: Team Rousey vs Team Tate (Discussion Thread)

[Guest]

Well that championship fight was a joke. An semi-unknown lesbian with modeate skills for Rousey to beat, a marketing stunt at best. What's next? Headlining Nick Newell vs. Captain hook for the amputee champion of the world befoe Mousasi and Machida?

i couldn't agree more. if they didn't have gashes it never would have been main event. u make some great points too. Hendo is being compared to rousey?! lmao

[Guest]

You didn't answer my question.

 

So you admit the HW division has developed while being in the UFC?

dude are you seriously saying that if the fighters as it evolved is the art this day and age if we took some of those fighters back into Tim Sylvia's era that Tim would still be headlining events? you're releasing going out your perspective of the argument and totally ignoring the obvious factors. is it was 5 years ago sure that would be a great main event with the women.

[Scooby]

this argument is kinda silly, it happens in both genders, but the womens divisions are like the mens when ufc first started, until the desire to fight grows for women it wont be a lot of competition, thats why an olympic judo/wrestler is destroying everyone, now you get some dominant boxers to learn grappling and in a few years you will have something, plus i wouldnt see anything wrong with Rousey vs Holly Holm headliner, Her knockouts are always GREAT

[Guest]

You didn't answer my question.

 

So you admit the HW division has developed while being in the UFC?

The sport hadn't really landed where i live back then so no, i didn't know about it. I would say yes it has developed because the sport has developed and i developing all the time. I would also say that the UFC didn't bring along the lighter weight classes untill they had the quality to fit the ufc. So the point you are going to make about women going to develop is just stupid. Do you always attack on people who dare to have a unique view on things?

[Guest]

I would not exactly compare the women's current situation with the old man situation a long time ago. currently these supposedly unevolved females our training with the best coaches in the world the same coach is there training George St Pierre Anderson Silva and you name it. female MMA is much more evolved than many people would think. the only thing that's missing from females MMA is the cream of the crap is going to other sports now that they are inside of the UFC you will see many more times at Leeds taking up the fight game. and give them one more year and I will say they will be almost up to par with the male division

[Guest]

I would not exactly compare the women's current situation with the old man situation a long time ago. currently these supposedly unevolved females our training with the best coaches in the world the same coach is there training George St Pierre Anderson Silva and you name it. female MMA is much more evolved than many people would think. the only thing that's missing from females MMA is the cream of the crap is going to other sports now that they are inside of the UFC you will see many more times at Leeds taking up the fight game. and give them one more year and I will say they will be almost up to par with the male division

Agreed, then feamles should join the ufc when they're on the same level.

[Scooby]

You proved my point, the best women athletes are not interested in fighting currently, when the womens division starts to get bigger and more attractive to fans, then more women will join and better competition and fighters will start to appear

[Guest]

dude are you seriously saying that if the fighters as it evolved is the art this day and age if we took some of those fighters back into Tim Sylvia's era that Tim would still be headlining events? you're releasing going out your perspective of the argument and totally ignoring the obvious factors. is it was 5 years ago sure that would be a great main event with the women.

 

I never said that. Strawman.

 

What I'm saying is that every single division needs time to grow. Look at the cesspool featherweight was 2-3 years ago. Would you have shat your breeches if Aldo/Hominick headlined a card in 2011 too?

 

By saying a title fight shouldn't be headlining over a non-title fight you're essentially saying that the division doesn't belong in the UFC in the first place. That's a valid opinion to have about womens' 135 at this point for sure, but seeing as it actually IS a part of the UFC I don't see the point in getting all uppity about it.

 

 

The sport hadn't really landed where i live back then so no, i didn't know about it. I would say yes it has developed because the sport has developed and i developing all the time. I would also say that the UFC didn't bring along the lighter weight classes untill they had the quality to fit the ufc. So the point you are going to make about women going to develop is just stupid. Do you always attack on people who dare to have a unique view on things?

 

Featherweight and BW were shallow as hell when the WEC was assimilated and flyweight still is. People were saying these exact things about FlW/BW/FW a couple of years ago, and you claiming otherwise is just revisionist bullshit.

 

I never attacked "people", I attacked what I saw as a dumb opinion. You are of course entitled to defend said opinion, but as of right now you're not doing a very good job of it.

 

I would not exactly compare the women's current situation with the old man situation a long time ago. currently these supposedly unevolved females our training with the best coaches in the world the same coach is there training George St Pierre Anderson Silva and you name it. female MMA is much more evolved than many people would think. the only thing that's missing from females MMA is the cream of the crap is going to other sports now that they are inside of the UFC you will see many more times at Leeds taking up the fight game. and give them one more year and I will say they will be almost up to par with the male division

 

Tim Sylvia trained with Miletich and he was a sack of shit. As you and Scooby said, it's only a matter of making it attractive for female athletes in the first place. Between Invicta and the UFC, I think there's a real shot there.

 

Agreed, then feamles should join the ufc when they're on the same level.

 

See above.

[Guest]

You proved my point, the best women athletes are not interested in fighting currently, when the womens division starts to get bigger and more attractive to fans, then more women will join and better competition and fighters will start to appear

I just think that it's wrong to put the pedestole ahead of men in the ufc just so the females can get the Creme de le creme of athletes.

[Guest]

Mannetosen you're defending your point well to by changing the discussion too... Maybe the division were shallow but they were talented, as for some women (most) in the ufc are pretty one dimensional and not really that good, yet.

[Guest]

Mannetosen you're defending your point well to by changing the discussion too... Maybe the division were shallow but they were talented, as for some women (most) in the ufc are pretty one dimensional and not really that good, yet.

 

Please show me where I changed the discussion.

 

Aldo dropped a 10-8 round on the mat to Mark Hominick, Chad Mendes is a pure wrestler, Cub Swanson's main skill is tapping out and isn't Korean Zombie the guy who just got pasted by George Roop of all people?

 

 

I just think that it's wrong to put the pedestole ahead of men in the ufc just so the females can get the Creme de le creme of athletes.

 

Hahaha are you SERIOUSLY making the UFC letting a title fight headline a card into a mens' right issue?

[Guest]

the Korean Zombie had a serious injury going into that fight. group was in line to get a title shot well before that fight. I think your personal opinions of those fighters you mentioned are just that, your personal opinion

[Guest]

the Korean Zombie had a serious injury going into that fight. group was in line to get a title shot well before that fight. I think your personal opinions of those fighters you mentioned are just that, your personal opinion

Those aren't my opinions, those are things people would say about current top featherweights in 2011.

[Erik]

Well she is a grappler so that's basically it but yeah you could say she's 2 dimensional and that's not something to be doing a dance about either. And im sure that Hendo is better at SW than Ronda is at stand-up, even tho' that is difficult to compare. And Hendo is not an champion and Rousey is. And i dont think there is a women that's going to beat Ronda for some time, thus (in my oppinion) proving that women are not good enough to be in the UFC yet.

 

If nobody beating a champion any time soon is criteria for scrapping a division or not having one than you could make an argument for shit canning virtually every division in the sport at one point or another (like Middleweight until Weidman showed up.. Anderson Silva isn't particularly high level at grappling or wrestling after all).

 

And no, Hendo isn't better at submission wrestling than Ronda is at striking.. not that it matters, Hendo has pretty awful striking technique too. Awesome power in the right is about all he has and it's telegraphed as hell -- half of Hendo's recent KO wins come from guys literally circling into his power shot despite knowing he throws it, which says more about the shitty level of striking in MMA than anything else.

[Scooby]

 

 

Hahaha are you SERIOUSLY making the UFC letting a title fight headline a card into a mens' right issue?

 

LOL

[Guest]

I dont really know how to do this multi quote thing so i'll just explain like this:

 

Mannetosen: Your way of argumenting is childish and poor. I didn't say it was a gender equality issue I just answered to an other argument you can read that form earlier in the thead. You constantly take on small pieces and change the way the discussion is going. As you did in your previous post again. What's the point your trying to make with those featheweights? Stay on the road.

 

Erik: No i didn't mean that at all. I was just trying to make a point about womens poor level of skills.

[Guest]

I dont really know how to do this multi quote thing so i'll just explain like this:

 

Mannetosen: Your way of argumenting is childish and poor. I didn't say it was a gender equality issue I just answered to an other argument you can read that form earlier in the thead. You constantly take on small pieces and change the way the discussion is going. As you did in your previous post again. What's the point your trying to make with those featheweights? Stay on the road.

Works for me.

 

You never explicitly said it was a gender equality issue, true. What you did say, though:

 

 

 

It's fucked up that she main carded over Lyoto and Hendo. That not gender equality, that's discremination.

 

 

I just think that it's wrong to put the pedestole ahead of men in the ufc just so the females can get the Creme de le creme of athletes.

 

Emphasis mine.

 

First of all, you made the fact that a title fight in a new division was headlining a card over two contenders in a more established weighgt class into a matter of "discrimination" after bringing up gender equality first. Despite this, champions of even newly established divisions have _always_ headlined cards over even contender matches. Seeing as I'm a massive mark for Carlos Condit I'm going to use him pasting Stun Gun at UFC 132 as an example. He was a top level WW on a winning streak who always put on exciting fights facing an undefeated prospect with 14 wins, and yet was relegated to the first main card match of the evening while other "name" fights such as Bader/Ortiz and Wanderlei/Leben were further up the card. The card was headlined by Cruz/Faber 2 over all these established names despite this being both their UFC debuts, and in an incredibly shallow division to boot. Was that "discimination" against more established fighters as well?

 

Secondly, you claim this puts female fighters on the "pedestal" "ahead of men" despite being a common practice. Forgive me if I misinterpreted your posts, but this WASN'T about gender despite you repeatedly bringing it up?

 

The point I was making with the featherweights was that people used to claim it was an underdeveloped division full of sub-UFC talent with a God-King ruling it with an iron fist, with only HW and BW being more shallow. Fast forward 2.5 years and I'd argue it's stacked as hell. Does this sound familiar?

 

As for my posts being childish:

 

 

An semi-unknown lesbian with modeate skills for Rousey to beat, a marketing stunt at best. What's next? Headlining Nick Newell vs. Captain hook for the amputee champion of the world

 

So her sexual orientation is relevant and she only earned a title shot piggybacking her liking girls. This is also a "marketing stunt" and is comparable to a character from Peter Pan fighting in the UFC.

 

 

the UFC didn't bring along the lighter weight classes untill they had the quality to fit the ufc

 

Revisionism as I've touched on earlier.

 

 

Maybe the division were shallow but they were talented, as for some women (most) in the ufc are pretty one dimensional and not really that good, yet.

 

So you do say womens' fighters have the potential to be UFC caliber?

[minark]

Bwahaha... Feliks be getting

[Scooby]

I dont really know how to do this multi quote thing so i'll just explain like this:

 

 

 

click "multiquote" for each post you want to quote and then click "reply to multiquotes"

[Guest]

Wow, there has been a lot of activity and interaction all of a sudden. I was wondering if I had missed an episode or something.

 

My sister found the Pena/Moras fight to be boring.

[Guest]

Glad Pena won to be honest.. the other bird was just annoying to look at haha. Looking forward to the Brit destroying the other lad as well. The brit vs Holdsworth will be a great fight in the finale! (and yes i am bad at remembering names).

[PBR]

pena has shown to be pretty tough -- im hoping rocky wins her fight and ends up pena vs rocky

[Guest]

Hard to take anyone serious who uses the word 'gash' or 'lesbian' in their description of women's MMA, irrespective of the quality or entertainment difference.

 

Reeks of mysogynists who spent too long suckling at mummy's tit and never forgave her for the retruded teeth and social unease.

[Scooby]

Hard to take anyone serious who uses the word 'gash' or 'lesbian' in their description of women's MMA, irrespective of the quality or entertainment difference.

 

Reeks of mysogynists who spent too long suckling at mummy's tit and never forgave her for the retruded teeth and social unease.

And thats K-Rad ladies and gentlemen

[Guest]

 

Works for me.

 

You never explicitly said it was a gender equality issue, true. What you did say, though:

 

 

 

 

 

Emphasis mine.

 

First of all, you made the fact that a title fight in a new division was headlining a card over two contenders in a more established weighgt class into a matter of "discrimination" after bringing up gender equality first. Despite this, champions of even newly established divisions have _always_ headlined cards over even contender matches. Seeing as I'm a massive mark for Carlos Condit I'm going to use him pasting Stun Gun at UFC 132 as an example. He was a top level WW on a winning streak who always put on exciting fights facing an undefeated prospect with 14 wins, and yet was relegated to the first main card match of the evening while other "name" fights such as Bader/Ortiz and Wanderlei/Leben were further up the card. The card was headlined by Cruz/Faber 2 over all these established names despite this being both their UFC debuts, and in an incredibly shallow division to boot. Was that "discimination" against more established fighters as well?

 

Secondly, you claim this puts female fighters on the "pedestal" "ahead of men" despite being a common practice. Forgive me if I misinterpreted your posts, but this WASN'T about gender despite you repeatedly bringing it up?

 

The point I was making with the featherweights was that people used to claim it was an underdeveloped division full of sub-UFC talent with a God-King ruling it with an iron fist, with only HW and BW being more shallow. Fast forward 2.5 years and I'd argue it's stacked as hell. Does this sound familiar?

 

As for my posts being childish:

 

 

 

So her sexual orientation is relevant and she only earned a title shot piggybacking her liking girls. This is also a "marketing stunt" and is comparable to a character from Peter Pan fighting in the UFC.

 

 

 

Revisionism as I've touched on earlier.

 

 

 

So you do say womens' fighters have the potential to be UFC caliber?

 

Okay, if I say that she is lesbian and that is a reason why she got the fight then i don't mean it was the ONLY reason. ( Even tho' I didn't say it on such an serious note, lesbians are great). My main point that perhaps made a bit unclea is that i don't thinkt he females are talented enough to be UFC caliber fighters. It's not about the divison being shallow it's about lack of talent and skills. Something else you wanted me to answer?