Mentor Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I do have to give Floyd some slack, i have not really been interested in boxing for the past 7-8 years and going through his list of wins, he has quite a few impressive ones, plus you cannot take anything away from the 48-0 record. I would say that based upon the record, the results, i would rate him the best fighter of this century, but Floyd is nowhere near top 5 ever, maybe top 10 and there are many reasons i would say that. First of all, this is the decline/dead period of Boxing, in fact i would struggle to name 5-6 top ranking fighters in their prime which i would consider Elite level fighters. 15-20y ago i could easilly name 5 in each division. Mayweather is a very good fighter in a really bad era. Secondly, it is his style of fighting, he fights to win. Tactically and defensively i would say that he could be one of the best fighters ever, but when a fighter goes into the ring with sole purpose of getting a UD, then he cannot be considered a top rated. Think about it, in his last 24 wins, he had just 5 KO/TKO's, sure he fights in the lower weight classes, but for the most part this guy does not really go for the KO, so in short, he is a bit of a dud to watch. Thirdly, Floyd has ducked the best in their primes, everyone knows that. The Manny fight for example is what, 5 years late? Manny is nowhere near who he used to be at this point. Similar to Shane Mosley, De la Hoya etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm a huge Floyd mark but TBE is a bit crazy to me. He's a defensive genius & perhaps TBE when it comes to that aspect of boxing. But I think he would've struggled against great fighters from past generations because he doesn't have enough offensive output really. Doesn't string his punches together very often. I think some of that is due to the issues he has with his hands honestly but it is what it is. He hasn't fought too many fighters that I'd even rank top 10 in the weight class "all-time" so it's really hard to gauge because boxing isn't what it used to be & so many top guys avoid fighting each other as long as they can. He's definitely among the greats though & I would've loved seeing how he would've fared against other top welterweights of the past because he does seem to solve every puzzle placed in front of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I don't consider Manny a welterweight either so he wasn't part of my top 10 in the weight discussion. If this was 30+ yrs ago I doubt Manny would've ever fought at 147lbs honestly. How bout him needing surgery on a torn rotator cuff though??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacman Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I consider Floyd a top 10 greatest boxer of all time because of his elite defense and great ability to adapt to any boxer. His defense is probably the greatest of all time which is why I have him close to the top 5. If his era wasn't so weak he might have been able to become the greatest. I think a fighters resume in Boxing and MMA really determine how great the person was. Like people have mentioned Floyd did fight some great fighters but way to late in each others careers. I think a prime Floyd beats a prime Shane, De La Hoya, Pacquiao, Cotto, JMM, etc. though. I have a hard time seeing him beat Hagler, Leonard, or Hearns but his defense is so elite it wouldn't shock me to see him pull out a UD or SD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I don't consider Manny a welterweight either so he wasn't part of my top 10 in the weight discussion. If this was 30+ yrs ago I doubt Manny would've ever fought at 147lbs honestly. How bout him needing surgery on a torn rotator cuff though??? I hate this all comes out after the fight is over with, instead of before it. If you are injured, pull out the fight. This "Manny showed the heart of a warrior thing" i am going to add something else in "he also showed the brain of a goldfish". He doesn't deserve another crack at Mayweather, he got his shot and he fucked up and fought injured, self inflicted, no sympathy. I want to see Khan vs Mayweather, and then for Mayweather to retire, and this time for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycooner Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 i want to see Floyd Mayweather vs Danny Garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 i want to see Floyd Mayweather vs Danny Garcia Isn't Danny meant to be fighting against Adrian Broner, if he makes it out of that fight alive, i'd also like to see him fight Mayweather but chances are Mayweather retires after his next fight in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 We are comparing apples to eggplant, of course he wouldve struggled with the greatest fighters. The greatest fighters struggled with each other without being at a 60lb disadvantage. I hate saying "this guy wouldve destroyed him" because we heard that about Pacquiao, Maidana, Canelo and every other fighter he has fought. Like asking who wins out of Mike Jordan and LBJ when we can only do it in a video game, just we cant with Floyd because EA Sports wasnt stupid enough to pay Mayweather that much apparently. Honestly i wish everyone would just say "he sucks" and he would just retire so boxing can die completely. Its no point for him to fight again, everyone will still say he sucks so 48-0 or 49-0 is indifferent. If i was him i'd ride off with my millions of dollars and not give a shit.... Maybe donate to tycoon or something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 We are comparing apples to eggplant, of course he wouldve struggled with the greatest fighters. The greatest fighters struggled with each other without being at a 60lb disadvantage. I hate saying "this guy wouldve destroyed him" because we heard that about Pacquiao, Maidana, Canelo and every other fighter he has fought. Like asking who wins out of Mike Jordan and LBJ when we can only do it in a video game, just we cant with Floyd because EA Sports wasnt stupid enough to pay Mayweather that much apparently. Honestly i wish everyone would just say "he sucks" and he would just retire so boxing can die completely. Its no point for him to fight again, everyone will still say he sucks so 48-0 or 49-0 is indifferent. If i was him i'd ride off with my millions of dollars and not give a shit.... Maybe donate to tycoon or something 60lb disadvantage? I am not suggesting Floyd should fight guys like RJJ or Ali, that doesn't make sense. I was comparing their boxing skills and techniques, i mean any respectable super middleweight and above would destroy Floyd rather easily just through sheer force and physical attributes. In fairness i have never said that Pacman, Maidana, Canelo or anyone like that would beat Floyd, i thought Pacman would make more of a fight though. Khan i just think has the physical attributes along with an eye pleasing style which will impress the judges, i think he will be able to trouble Mayweather and outpoint him. Floyd could beat him, no doubt about it, but that is just my two cents on that. On the point of RJJ, the reason i brought him up was because of the GIF that Bjorn posted, RJJ done that against elite level fighters and regularly followed it up with a barrage, Floyd does not. I don't think boxing will ever die completely, it is still highly popular in Europe, despite what the UFC will say, Boxing is still 10 times more popular than MMA. It could be that we don't have the wrestling culture like America, because after the Olympics, wrestlers were formerly redundant in their field. Where as here boxing is highly popular and the pro sport of boxing is still doing well in the UK. I know in America boxing is going through a slump, but in Europe it is still the top tier earner in combat sports and it prolly will always be. You look at the UFC currently compared to its rise through the 00's, the buy rates have slowed down considerably. I don't think boxing will go anywhere, there are a lot of talented young fighters making their way up through the ranks right now, and some incredibly good Europeans also now getting some momentum. Boxing could see a revival, but it won't happen until places like HBO and Showtime have to look to new stars to make them money in multiple weight divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronix Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Manny Pacquiao will undergo right shoulder surgery later this week to repair a "significant tear" in his rotator cuff, orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache told ESPN.com on Monday night. http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/12821905/manny-pacquiao-surgery-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 60lb disadvantage? I am not suggesting Floyd should fight guys like RJJ or Ali, that doesn't make sense. I was comparing their boxing skills and techniques, i mean any respectable super middleweight and above would destroy Floyd rather easily just through sheer force and physical attributes. In fairness i have never said that Pacman, Maidana, Canelo or anyone like that would beat Floyd, i thought Pacman would make more of a fight though. Khan i just think has the physical attributes along with an eye pleasing style which will impress the judges, i think he will be able to trouble Mayweather and outpoint him. Floyd could beat him, no doubt about it, but that is just my two cents on that. On the point of RJJ, the reason i brought him up was because of the GIF that Bjorn posted, RJJ done that against elite level fighters and regularly followed it up with a barrage, Floyd does not. I don't think boxing will ever die completely, it is still highly popular in Europe, despite what the UFC will say, Boxing is still 10 times more popular than MMA. It could be that we don't have the wrestling culture like America, because after the Olympics, wrestlers were formerly redundant in their field. Where as here boxing is highly popular and the pro sport of boxing is still doing well in the UK. I know in America boxing is going through a slump, but in Europe it is still the top tier earner in combat sports and it prolly will always be. You look at the UFC currently compared to its rise through the 00's, the buy rates have slowed down considerably. I don't think boxing will go anywhere, there are a lot of talented young fighters making their way up through the ranks right now, and some incredibly good Europeans also now getting some momentum. Boxing could see a revival, but it won't happen until places like HBO and Showtime have to look to new stars to make them money in multiple weight divisions. Boxing isn't popular in the USA anymore because HW's was always the weight class that drew our attention and now the NFL is the attraction for those athletic big men. If you look at popularity of the NFL in the 60's and 70's & even 80's when boxing was still extremely popular it is absolutely nothing compared to the popularity of the NFL today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Also it was broken on First Take this morning that Floyd said he'd be willing to fight Manny again next May or September since he had a serious injury before the fight. Skip was making excuses for Manny so when they went on commercial break Floyd texted Stephen A. that he'd fight him next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Boxing isn't popular in the USA anymore because HW's was always the weight class that drew our attention and now the NFL is the attraction for those athletic big men. If you look at popularity of the NFL in the 60's and 70's & even 80's when boxing was still extremely popular it is absolutely nothing compared to the popularity of the NFL today I'd say that i'd half agree with that statement, i personally think the emergence of other sports coupled with the facts that Tyson/Holyfield were the last two big American hopes and both of them were soundly demolished by Lewis led to the rapid decline. It is like MMA in Japan, America lost interest in heavyweight boxing because there were no longer an American to cheer for. It is also the reason you guys don't like football or rugby, because you guys aren't very good at it and have never had a superstar to idolize, it is the same for all countries really. It is also the reason that Americans blame the Klitschko's for killing heavyweight boxing despite it still be hugely popular in Europe. It isn't their fault that they demolished everyone in their paths nor that any Americans could challenge them, i mean even recently Vlad smashed an American up and coming heavyweight very comfortably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think it's dumb to put the decline on a few losses to Lewis or the Klitschko's honestly. Tyson & Holyfield had losses prior to Lennox Lewis. Both of those guys were captivating figures & a spectacle. Losing a fight didn't take away from the excitement when either of them had a fight coming up. I couldn't even tell you which American's the Klitschko's beat because I don't watch the HW's anymore & tbh outside of boxing's faithful inner circle? NONE of the American HW's are even known or talked about ever! There isn't 1 guy that has captivated the country that casual fans would know their name. If you put them in a line-up with similar sized Joe schmo's, 8 or 9 out of 10 American's couldn't pick out a HW boxer from this country. I wouldn't blame the Klitschko's for killing it off really. The popularity & pay of those other sports has greatly increased & we haven't had a fighter who transcends the sport in 20 yrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hell, that rematch works in Manny's favor since he owed so much in taxes... his ass was close to sittin right next to Jon Jones in jail Sadly people will blow $99.95 on that fight again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I wont, I'm going to Glasgow to get a stag, Dinooo reckons even I can bag one there so my 25 quid is spoken for. Dinooo I will have change for kebab though fella? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Lol stag, shag that's priceless, predicted text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I wont, I'm going to Glasgow to get a stag, Dinooo reckons even I can bag one there so my 25 quid is spoken for. Dinooo I will have change for kebab though fella? of course, but after the other kebab you will get, it might put you off your dinner my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 What's the crack with the law suits? Implications? Private settlement or leaned on to make it disappear by 3rd party settlement? Discuss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 What's the crack with the law suits? Implications? Private settlement or leaned on to make it disappear by 3rd party settlement? Discuss.... Doubt it goes anywhere, settling it will open up a huge can of worms. Manny showed up and he fought, injured or not. If this was a thing, then the UFC would be in a hellova lot of trouble with guys claiming to be fighting injured. I am guessing this is because the NSAC is saying he was dishonest about his injury. It was the biggest fight the world has seen, so i think there will be a bit of a stink about it. The doctor said there was a significant tear, now if that was pre fight or post fight because i think fighting 12 rounds of competitive boxing with a small tear could lead to it becoming a bigger tear. Mayweather also said his hands were injured and his shoulders, now i think that might just be that there were a little sore, as most boxers hands are after a training camp. If anything i think Manny just wants another big payday, yes he is legit injured but no doubt he wanted a double header against Mayweather and knows his performance wasn't good enough to warrant one. So he disclosed the full extent of his injury and if it costs him money then so be it, i am sure he will make it all back and then some at a rematch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I love me some Pacman, I dislike Mayweather... that being said, it's hard to say he's not one of the best ever. I don't think Mayweather has a terrible offense either, I can't recall any time he's ever looked sluggish or bad offensively. He just chooses to counter. He's always looked good when he attacks. Anything I've ever seen shows me he's a pretty effective puncher when he's aggressive, he just doesn't like getting punched in the head so chooses to stick to his bread and butter. Sugar Ray, Ali, Tyson (the most athletically gifted boxer ever), and y'know for me, it's hard not to throw Mayweather in the top 5 mix. His fight with Ricky Hatton, imo, the most anticipated boxing match I remember, at least for me personally. That was one of the last times I actually looked forward to a boxing match. I knew how Pac vs Floyd would play out, so I can't say that I was that excited about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'd also rather watch Mayweather vs Garcia than Mayweather vs Kahn.. or Mayweather vs Matthysse. I wouldn't mind seeing Mayweather vs Garcia, then Mayweather vs the winner of Kahn vs Matthysse 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'd also rather watch Mayweather vs Garcia than Mayweather vs Kahn.. or Mayweather vs Matthysse. I wouldn't mind seeing Mayweather vs Garcia, then Mayweather vs the winner of Kahn vs Matthysse 2. Mayweather vs Khan is the bigger box office draw, you are combining the biggest draw in America to the biggest draw in the UK, much like the Hatton vs Mayweather fight. I am not saying that Garcia doesn't deserve a shot at him, but the last i heard he was fighting Broner in September possibly as the co-main to Mayweather vs Pacman 2 but now that is out the window i think it will be Khan if he makes it past Alegri. Khan also just demolished a guy who beat Matthysse, and Danny Garcia has hardly wowed anyone after his last performance, which i think hurts his chances at getting a shot at Mayweather in September. I personally just think that Khan vs Mayweather makes sense right now because it is the next highest drawing fight for Mayweather. Just to add in something, Tyson wasn't the most athletically gifted boxer ever imo, that was RJJ. Tyson was a mean, hard punching motherfucker with great fundamentals, there were nothing flashy about his style, it is what made him so damn effective. He bobbed and weaved his way in and just unloaded bombs on opponents. The other thing about Tyson and why he will never be on my all time greats list is because he was like a tornado, came in destroyed everything in his path, loses, takes on a couple of opponents then disappears. When he reappears again he isn't the same Tyson of old, loses to Holyfield and then embarrasses himself against Lennox Lewis (who was older than Tyson at the time before anyone can bring up age). He reminds me a lot of Bo Jackson, apart from with Jackson it was a physical injury, with Tyson i think it was psychological. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Mayweather vs Khan is the bigger box office draw, you are combining the biggest draw in America to the biggest draw in the UK, much like the Hatton vs Mayweather fight. I am not saying that Garcia doesn't deserve a shot at him, but the last i heard he was fighting Broner in September possibly as the co-main to Mayweather vs Pacman 2 but now that is out the window i think it will be Khan if he makes it past Alegri. Khan also just demolished a guy who beat Matthysse, and Danny Garcia has hardly wowed anyone after his last performance, which i think hurts his chances at getting a shot at Mayweather in September. I personally just think that Khan vs Mayweather makes sense right now because it is the next highest drawing fight for Mayweather. Just to add in something, Tyson wasn't the most athletically gifted boxer ever imo, that was RJJ. Tyson was a mean, hard punching motherfucker with great fundamentals, there were nothing flashy about his style, it is what made him so damn effective. He bobbed and weaved his way in and just unloaded bombs on opponents. The other thing about Tyson and why he will never be on my all time greats list is because he was like a tornado, came in destroyed everything in his path, loses, takes on a couple of opponents then disappears. When he reappears again he isn't the same Tyson of old, loses to Holyfield and then embarrasses himself against Lennox Lewis (who was older than Tyson at the time before anyone can bring up age). He reminds me a lot of Bo Jackson, apart from with Jackson it was a physical injury, with Tyson i think it was psychological. Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion of all time. He's easily one of, if not, the greatest athlete of all time in boxing. Nobody hit harder, nobody was faster, the man was genetically created in a science lab somewhere. NOBODY, and I repeat, NOBODY, was the animal that Tyson was before 1986. People try to say Ali was faster, but it wasn't even close. Different era. Athletes have only gotten bigger, faster, and stronger as the generations continue. Roy Jones is the man too, but that's cuz he drinks that good ole Florida water. Florida athletes > everywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjornmma1 Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 What exactly do you want dinooo? A defensive boxer like Floyd is not good, but a beast like Tyson isn't on your all time great list? Lol. his power and speed is pretty much unmatched in the history of the sport . His speed for a HW was sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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