MMATycoon Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 OK, so it looks like people are wanting a few tweaks to the fight engine, which I'm happy to do. The summary of what I've seen proposed: 1. Decrease standups. 2. Increase GNP land % and decrease damage from each GNP shot to compensate. 3. Decrease energy loss from failed takedowns. *N.B. People were actually calling for increased % of takedowns succeeding but I think this will be a better solution. 4. Easier to get into clinch and to break the clinch. 5. Clinch takedowns failing shouldn't break clinch quite as often. Everyone happy with that? Any additions / objections, please post below. Try and keep it brief but with some reasoning. Thanks! p.s. I have a question regarding standups... Is the problem A. Quick standups after a takedown. B. A while after the takedown it just becomes too hard to keep it on the ground. C. Both. At the moment we have a base value for standups that can get hit after e.g. 6 moves on the ground, so if you are really inactive for the first 6 moves you would get stood up. Then after each move we have an additional value that slowly builds up, so the more moves you have on the ground the move active you need to be to keep it there. I can adjust either of those factors. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerman Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I would make it harder to get a referee standup, and give a little more credits to "Escapes" by improving the actual "Stand Up". Referee standups should happen on stalling from both sides, not on failed moves. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 The increased GnP land % only really needs to apply from a few positions. GnP from side control for example is already really accurate and decently balanced power wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 The increased GnP land % only really needs to apply from a few positions. GnP from side control for example is already really accurate and decently balanced power wise. OK, which positions, cos they are all easy enough to change individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterLeader Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm not sure I agree with decrease stand ups ...i find its very rare that my fighters are stood up when on the ground 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I think and I believe this is also what happens in real fights is that if the top guy is attempting GnP then there is never a standup. The most extreme example of this was Pena getting a tko win without actually landing effective GnP. What I think it should happen is going for GnP should tire the fighter leading him to stall and stalling would get the standup from the ref. There can even be fight text saying "x is stalling a bit after throwing so many punches..." or something like that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I would make it harder to get a referee standup, and give a little more credits to "Escapes" by improving the actual "Stand Up". Referee standups should happen on stalling from both sides, not on failed moves. Agreed. I think making escapes worth something would be really good p.s. I have a question regarding standups... Is the problem A. Quick standups after a takedown. B. A while after the takedown it just becomes too hard to keep it on the ground. C. Both. At the moment we have a base value for standups that can get hit after e.g. 6 moves on the ground, so if you are really inactive for the first 6 moves you would get stood up. Then after each move we have an additional value that slowly builds up, so the more moves you have on the ground the move active you need to be to keep it there. I can adjust either of those factors. I think both of them is the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 From what I just wrote, it would mean for example that when a guy gets the TD and stays 3 or 4 minutes raining uneffective GnP, he should not be stood up because of it. However he should take an energy hit and that would make getting the TD on the 2nd round more difficult and also lead to more stalling. A way to go from here would be to allow the accuracy/damage slider on the ground. This would lead to 2 different tactics...one being go for the kill and waste a lot of energy on GnP or go for decision and constantly but economically rain GnP on the opponent not causing much damage but getting the points and placing the need to do something(be more agressive) on the bottom guy(either got for subs/sweeps or standups) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJones Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Wasn't there a thread about knees and elbows as well where the community hashed out what needed to be improved with that part of the fight engine? I'd try to find it myself but all I have is my phone right now. I remember a poll and some discussion about clinch/elbows/knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I like the idea of making escapes work like they are supposed to. The only problem would be most of my older guys are skill pointed out and I have never trained escapes because they are good for nothing. If they are improved to use like they were intended we would need to be able to move skill points from something else to them, like we did last time. I am sure I am not the only one with this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Wasn't there a thread about knees and elbows as well where the community hashed out what needed to be improved with that part of the fight engine? I'd try to find it myself but all I have is my phone right now. I remember a poll and some discussion about clinch/elbows/knees. http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42852&page=1 that thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splitm Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 100 % on the clinch break.. IRL no way can a guy actually keep another in a clinch, unless he's against the cage. Either he can keep the clinch with an underhook or whatnot, or he can strike effectively. Rarely can a guy actually tee off on a guy and keep the clinch very long... suggestion : how about a counter factor from the clinch, where a strike initiated can result in a counter where the other guy can go for a takedown or an escape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcalimon Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I like the proposed changes. Maybe #5 a bit less, but if #4 gets fixed properly I don't see why it should be bad a thing. Regarding the standups question, my aswer is C (both). In general, the fighter should train the "Escapes" skill to be able to stand up from the bottom, except for some really heavy stalling from both parts. Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I think standups are the biggest issue. Nerf standups enough to make investing points in escapes worth it. As I said before though, if the changes you make are as dramatic as they should be, I think allowing a point redistribution similar to what happened when transitions and escapes were initially introduced is necessary because there are many old fighters that wont be able to retrain their skills and adapt to the new game. I think the problem is A more than B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Rather than having a points redistribution, how about we just speed up the training you get on escapes by e.g. x3 for a while? I don't like the idea of a redistribution because the last one was to give points to these new skills in the first place. It's certainly possible to get escapes as it is now, so just because people chose to go down a different route I don't think we should just have a wipe clean button to allown them to have maximum points in escapes out of nothing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Am I gonna have to make escapes a thing in my gym now? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 GNP landing % from guard & half guard needs improved, but if we do that I think u need to drastically increase the level of activity on the ground. Right now it seems like pretty aggressive sliders on top such as 75 agg 70 finish 75 strike 100 GNP is lucky if you get throw 5 GNP's in a 1 min span due to the # of moves that go to control & adv pos attempts. If you are suddenly landing 3 out of those 5 attempts from guard then in 3 mo. ppl will be bitching how its impossible to get off the ground. If we're concerned about how much server space we're using with much longer fights then decrease the activity in the clinch some. I've always thought that was too high anyway. Most times against the cage it's a lot of leaning & controlling. It's difficult to "tee off" on guys & throw 25-30 strikes per min when you're trying to keep him against the cage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Rather than having a points redistribution, how about we just speed up the training you get on escapes by e.g. x3 for a while? I don't like the idea of a redistribution because the last one was to give points to these new skills in the first place. It's certainly possible to get escapes as it is now, so just because people chose to go down a different route I don't think we should just have a wipe clean button to allown them to have maximum points in escapes out of nothing. I made my standup guys with escapes....I hope I don't get screwed just because everyone else decided to go some other way.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrninja Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I would like to say that I don't agree with nr 3. Its very hard to do takedowns. And it is costly energy wise. So I find it absurd that its going to cost anything less than what it costs now. The rest makes more sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Also I think instead of a stand-up being judged based on 6 moves, I would increase that to what happens in 10 moves instead. But I preface that by saying ONLY if activity is increased because as it stands now it takes about half of a round to even perform 10 moves on the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swin Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 1. Decrease standups. No need, as for me. Stalling is quite a realistic tactic for brawlers. In fact, the referees tolerance to inactive ground game is up to fight orgs owners IRL. The best decision, imho, would be to give org.owners ability to regulate standup frequency in org fight rules. 2. Increase GNP land % and decrease damage from each GNP shot to compensate. Hm... Yes, for guard and half guard it would be nice. 3. Decrease energy loss from failed takedowns. *N.B. People were actually calling for increased % of takedowns succeeding but I think this will be a better solution. No need. Maybe, a small increase of successfull takedown attempts % would be nice. 4. Easier to get into clinch and to break the clinch. To get - yes, a little. To brake - no. 5. Clinch takedowns failing shouldn't break clinch quite as often. Absolutly yes. But, maybe, increasing an energy loss of failed clinch takedowns would be a good idea too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Also I think instead of a stand-up being judged based on 6 moves, I would increase that to what happens in 10 moves instead. But I preface that by saying ONLY if activity is increased because as it stands now it takes about half of a round to even perform 10 moves on the ground 6 was just an arbitrary number that i pulled out my arse... it probably is more like 10 - i can't remember. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 6 was just an arbitrary number that i pulled out my arse... it probably is more like 10 - i can't remember. That's not the only thing pulled from his arse.... My pink sparkly belt came from somewhe- okay I'm done here. Getting relevant now, I really like the idea of these changes, finally escapes have a purpose and I've already implemented it into my gym routine. My grappling projects don't have to be cut after all! Yayyy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catako Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I agree with all the proposals except 3. I think there should be a balance in a fight. If you go for takedown after takedown, in real life you won't last more then 3 min in a round. But if you decrease the energy loss, any ground fighter will go 100% on takedowns hoping 1 or 2 will land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Can the AI be dumbed down a bit on the ground and more closely follow the sliders.. It seems much of the controlling shit, to have the stand up is to do with recovering energy.. Grappler on top recovering energy whilst striker on bottom controlling cause he knows it will force a stand up. If I'm set to 70% finish then I should be attempting to advance, strike and sub close enough to 7 out of 10 moves, which certainly isn't the case at the present if I'm down on energy... Then attempting those moves also means it gives the striker a better chance of reserving/escaping/standing up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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