It is a sad day for America

[GiankaBonghi]

Obviously not, but it's pretty rich to tell people their opinions ain't worth anything due to their country's head of state when you yourself live in a country where someone who's essentially a cartoon villain was president for like 12 years.

 

No you dont get it.

 

It's pretty rich when people that had fucking Tony Abbott dare to says something about Trump, thats the only rich shit here.

 

At least i never said anything against Trump, if you consider the average shitshow in the West, Trump is the undisputed p4p politician, cuz you know, when you have Boris Johnson, Renzocchio , Justin Trudeu, Tony Abbott and all the rest...nobody should really talk bad things about Trump, they really make him looks like a fucking champ.

[Timqwe]

 

No you dont get it.

 

It's pretty rich when people that had fucking Tony Abbott dare to says something about Trump, thats the only rich shit here.

 

At least i never said anything against Trump, if you consider the average shitshow in the West, Trump is the undisputed p4p politician, cuz you know, when you have Boris Johnson, Renzocchio , Justin Trudeu, Tony Abbott and all the rest...nobody should really talk bad things about Trump, they really make him looks like a fucking champ.

you really need to step up your troll game

[JLP]

Pull your head out of your ass, a number of organisations said Anschluss was legit at the time too when it plainly wasn't. If you think a legitimate vote can occur during a military occupation you're even more retarded than I thought.

So you're telling me there were no legitimate votes in w. Germany, Japan or Italy after ww2? What about Haiti, the DR, and numerous other Latin American/Caribbean countries occupied by the U.S. in the 60s, 70s, and 80s? Afghanistan? Iraq? Kosovo? Ireland? I haven't even gotten into Africa, I'm sure there was a bunch there as well.

[Mannetosen]

No you dont get it.

 

It's pretty rich when people that had fucking Tony Abbott dare to says something about Trump, thats the only rich shit here.

 

At least i never said anything against Trump, if you consider the average shitshow in the West, Trump is the undisputed p4p politician, cuz you know, when you have Boris Johnson, Renzocchio , Justin Trudeu, Tony Abbott and all the rest...nobody should really talk bad things about Trump, they really make him looks like a fucking champ.

Nice strawman. I never claimed that you said anything about Trump.

[GiankaBonghi]

you really need to step up your troll game

shut up dutch pederast.

[GiankaBonghi]

Nice strawman. I never claimed that you said anything about Trump.

Yes but i said to shut up to a guy that is attacking Trump, yet they walk around with Tony Abbott, isnt that rich too?

[GiankaBonghi]

So you're telling me there were no legitimate votes in w. Germany, Japan or Italy after ww2? What about Haiti, the DR, and numerous other Latin American/Caribbean countries occupied by the U.S. in the 60s, 70s, and 80s? Afghanistan? Iraq? Kosovo? Ireland? I haven't even gotten into Africa, I'm sure there was a bunch there as well.

 

Dont debate with him, he is a lost cause, one of those wonderful special snowflakes brainwashed into thinking that the Western system is the best, the most good and infallible, yet there are so many fails after the post-WW2 system was implemented.

[Mannetosen]

Yes but i said to shut up to a guy that is attacking Trump, yet they walk around with Tony Abbott, isnt that rich too?

It would be if that person a) voted for Abbott or b ) told all Americans their opinions were worthless because Trump is their head of state. You fall firmly into category b, and seeing as Berlusconi is worse than both of them your own logic dictates that your arguments are completely worthless.

[GiankaBonghi]

It would be if that person a) voted for Abbott or b ) told all Americans their opinions were worthless because Trump is their head of state. You fall firmly into category b, and seeing as Berlusconi is worse than both of them your own logic dictates that your arguments are completely worthless.

 

Judging by how misguided the aussie guy is, i am pretty sure he voted Abbott.

[Guest]

 

Judging by how misguided the aussie guy is, i am pretty sure he voted Abbott.

 

JLP is not from Austrailia he is Mexican American.

[Guest]

JLP is not from Austrailia he is Mexican American.

You spell deportee weirdly

[GiankaBonghi]

 

JLP is not from Austrailia he is Mexican American.

You still didnt answer my question.

[Guest]

You still didnt answer my question.

 

Whats your question?

[JLP]

On the issue of russian propaganda:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-17/washington-post-actually-takes-russian-government-money-unlike-websites-it-helped-sl

 

The mainstream media so beloved by many posters here has routinely taken money from russia to publish pro-russian propaganda.

[gwad12345]

On the issue of russian propaganda:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-17/washington-post-actually-takes-russian-government-money-unlike-websites-it-helped-sl

 

The mainstream media so beloved by many posters here has routinely taken money from russia to publish pro-russian propaganda.

What exactly is your point? Regardless of the fact that the actual procedure is 99% less ominous than you make it sound, wouldnt that make them more balanced? Or should we be congratulating RT and Sputnik for blaring the exact same viewpoint 24/7?

[JLP]

What exactly is your point? Regardless of the fact that the actual procedure is 99% less ominous than you make it sound, wouldnt that make them more balanced? Or should we be congratulating RT and Sputnik for blaring the exact same viewpoint 24/7?

My point is that dismissing other peoples opinion as being influenced by "russian propaganda" is both lazy and wholly inaccurate. I could have made the same ridiculous argument, i.e. "You are just spitting out MSM (pro-neocon) info" but instead I backed up my arguments with facts. I dont read either of the sources you reference. I read a wide variety of sources and make my own decisions on what is accurate based on my understanding of politics, history and current events. It's possible that I may make mistakes, but no ones posts in this thread came any where close to making me question my understanding of the situation. For the most part, it was cheap shots and half-assed parroted garbage that were rather embarrassing to the posters who made them.

[gwad12345]

My point is that dismissing other peoples opinion as being influenced by "russian propaganda" is both lazy and wholly inaccurate. I could have made the same ridiculous argument, i.e. "You are just spitting out MSM (pro-neocon) info" but instead I backed up my arguments with facts. I dont read either of the sources you reference. I read a wide variety of sources and make my own decisions on what is accurate based on my understanding of politics, history and current events. It's possible that I may make mistakes, but no ones posts in this thread came any where close to making me question my understanding of the situation. For the most part, it was cheap shots and half-assed parroted garbage that were rather embarrassing to the posters who made them.

 

Fine. I'm willing to accept that it is coincidence that all of the talking points you use (coup, Nuland tapes, far-right Ukrainian government) are the same as those blasted by Russian state media. Since you don't read those sources I thought it would be valuable to let you and everyone else know of the alignment.

[Grasman]

What happened in Sweden Friday evening..

 

U.S. president Donald Trump gave a speech in Melbourne, Florida, Saturday evening.

While speaking about keeping America safe he mentioned the major terrorist attacks in Nice, Paris and Brussels – and in the same sentence he pointed out an unspecified event in Sweden Friday evening.

”You look at what happened last night in Sweden”, he said.

Mr President, here is what happened in Sweden Friday night

 

• 3:24 PM (local time): A man set himself on fire at Sergels torg, a plaza in central Stockholm. He was taken to the hospital with severe burns. There is so far no information on his motives but the intelligence service is not part of the investigation.

• 6:42 PM: The famous singer Owe Thörnqvist had some technical problems during rehearsal for the singing competition ”Melodifestivalen”. (However, the 87 year old singer still managed to secure the victory the very next day.)

• 8:23 PM: A man died in hospital, after an accident in the workplace earlier that day in the city of Borås.

• 8:46 PM: Due to harsh weather in the northern parts of Sweden the road E10 was closed between Katterjåkk and Riksgränsen. Due to strong winds and snow in the region the Met office also issued an avalanche warning.

• 12:17 AM: Police officers initiated a chase for a fleeing Peugeot through central parts of the Swedish capital of Stockholm. The pursuit ended in police officers ramming the suspect at Engelbrektsgatan. The driver is now accused of driving under the influence, traffic violation and car theft.

IN LIGHTER NEWS:

11:23 AM: Ok, let’s not be fake news, this story took place in the autumn, but was reported Friday before lunch and we thought you would like it. A wooden moose got the attention of a lovesick moose bull. It all happened in 79 year old Ove Lindqvist’s garden in Byske outside Skellefteå, northern Sweden. ”I thought it was going to start a fight, instead it humped the wooden moose thrice”, he said.

[Timqwe]

Shocker, more fake news by the goverment. But no, the media is the problem!

[JLP]

 

Fine. I'm willing to accept that it is coincidence that all of the talking points you use (coup, Nuland tapes, far-right Ukrainian government) are the same as those blasted by Russian state media. Since you don't read those sources I thought it would be valuable to let you and everyone else know of the alignment.

The "talking points" that actually happened. If you can give any indication that it is incorrect then I'd be willing to read it.

[Mannetosen]

But did the moose get any splinters?

[gwad12345]

The talking points that actually happened. If you can give any indication that it is incorrect then I'd be willing to read it.

 

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/03/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/

 

Let's be clear that I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Arguing about this over the internet is futile and I'd be happy to move on to another topic.

 

The "far right nationalist" part is probably the most easily dispelled. Every political movement is made up of a coalition of different groups with different interests and ideologies. Were neo-nazis part of the coalition in the revolution? Yes. Were Jews part of the coalition? Yes. Were Europhiles part of the coalition? Yes. Were people just generally disgusted by corruption part of the coalition? Yes. Now if you are seeking to discredit a political movement, which faction would you emphasize, embellish and exaggerate?

 

This is not unlike what many media outlets in the US did against Trump. At the very least they stressed that he had neo-nazi supporters and at the most egregious they painted all of his supporters as racist, misogynistic etc. etc. Its very easy for any thinking person to realize this is all BS.

[JLP]

Russian propaganda piece from Huffington Post:

The Obama administration has vehemently denied charges that Ukraine’s nascent regime is stock full of neo-fascists despite clear evidence suggesting otherwise. Such categorical repudiations lend credence to the notion the U.S. facilitated the anti-Russian cabal’s rise to power as part of a broader strategy to draw Ukraine into the West’s sphere of influence. Even more disturbing are apologists, from the American left and right, who seem willing accomplices in this obfuscation of reality, when just a cursory glance at the profiles of Ukraine’s new leaders should give pause to the most zealous of Russophobes.

 

For starters, Andriy Parubiy, the new secretary of Ukraine’s security council, was a co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), otherwise known as Svoboda. And his deputy, Dmytro Yarosh, is the leader of a party called the Right Sector which, according to historian Timothy Stanley, “flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies.”

The highest-ranking right-wing extremist is Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych, also a member of Svoboda, who believes that women should “lead the kind of lifestyle to avoid the risk of rape, including refraining from drinking alcohol and being in controversial company.” This is the philosophy underlying one of his “legal initiatives,” according to the Kyiv Post, “to ban all abortions, even for pregnancies that occurred during rape.”

The Svoboda party has tapped into Nazi symbolism including the “wolf’s angel“ rune, which resembles a swastika and was worn by members of the Waffen-SS, a panzer division that was declared a criminal organization at Nuremberg. A report from Tel-Aviv University describes the Svoboda party as “an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism.”

According to this BBC news clip two Svoboda parliamentarians in recent weeks posed for photos while “brandishing well-known far right numerology,” including the numbers 88 — the eighth letter of the alphabet — signifying “HH,” as in “Heil Hitler.” This all makes Hillary Clinton’s recent comments comparing Putin to Hitler appear patently absurd, as Stanley adeptly points out: “After all, in the eyes of many ethnic Russians, it is the Ukrainian nationalists — not Putin — who are the Nazis.”

Last week Per Anders Rudling from Lund University in Sweden, an expert on Ukrainian extremists, told Britain’s Channel 4 News: “A neo-fascist party like Svoboda getting the deputy prime minister position is news in its own right.” Well, except in the U.S.

Even more disconcerting has been the emergence of phone intercepts between high-ranking U.S. and Ukrainian officials which make it look as if the U.S. was basically, in the words of Princeton’s Stephen Cohen, “plotting a coup d’état against the elected president of Ukraine.” In other words, the U.S., in addition to providing moral support, may have paved the way for extremists to seize power in Kiev. Such a development would counter the American right’s condemnation of Obama for not “engaging” in the world. The real problem is actually the administration’s over-engagement in this case — as in meddling in the affairs of another state and trying to rearrange its domestic political machinery to suit Washington’s agenda.

This gambit has backfired in a number of ways. Not only has a neo-fascist-laden regime secured power in Kiev but it may have played the U.S. and its allies for fools by insinuating it would become part of the Western sphere when it really had no such designs. As Svoboda political council member Yury Noyevy baldly admitted: “The participation of Ukrainian nationalism and Svoboda in the process of EU [European Union] integration is a means to break our ties with Russia.”

[JLP]

Russian propaganda outlet Ch. 4

 

5 Mar 2014 Politics, Ukraine, World

How the far-right took top posts in Ukraine’s power vacuum

By Brian Whelan

In the new Ukrainian government politicians linked to the far-right have taken posts from deputy prime minister to head of defence. We profile the nationalists filling the power vacuum.

http://www.channel4.com/media/images/Channel4/c4-news/2014/March/04/03_svoboda3_r_w.jpg

The man facing down Putin’s aggression as secretary of the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council is Andriy Parubiy. He oversees national security for the nation having previously served as security commandant during the anti-government protests in Kiev.

Parubiy was the founder of the Social National Party of Ukraine, a fascist party styled on Hitler’s Nazis, with membership restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.

The Social National Party would go on to become Svoboda, the far-right nationalist party whose leader Oleh Tyahnybok was one of the three most high profile leaders of the Euromaidan protests – negotiating directly with the Yanukovych regime.

Overseeing the armed forces alongside Parubiy as the Deputy Secretary of National Security is Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of the Right Sector – a group of hardline nationalist streetfighters, who previously boasted they were ready for armed struggle to free Ukraine.

Russia has pursued a systematic, targeted policy of subjugation toward Ukraine…So of course we will prepare for a conflict with them

Dmytro Yarosh, Deputy Secretary of National Security

Inside Right Sector was an alliance of hardline nationalist groups including Patriot of Ukraine and the paramilitary group UNA-UNSO, who have fought against Russian troops in Chechnya and Moldova. Their members paraded in balaclavas and wore uniforms bearing far-right insignia, including the wolfsangel.

In 1989 he joined the moderate nationalist group People’s Movement of Ukraine but from there went on to join the right wing Trizub organisation in 1994 and has been its leader since 2005, preaching and preparing for a Ukrainian “national revolution”.

He told Time magazine in a recent interview: “Russia has pursued a systematic, targeted policy of subjugation toward Ukraine…So of course we will prepare for a conflict with them”.

Filling the power vacuum

The new Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych is a member of the far-right Svoboda party, which the World Jewish Congress called on the EU to consider banning last year along with Greece’s Golden Dawn.

The party, which has long called for a “national revolution” in Ukraine, has endured a long march from relative obscurity in the early 90s. Their declaration that Ukraine is controlled by a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” has raised fears for the safety of the country’s Jewish population.

Svoboda now controls the ecology and agricultural ministry with Andriy Mokhnyk, the deputy head of Svoboda, running ecology and Ihor Shvaika as agriculture minister.

[JLP]

Nothing to see here.