Hypothetical question regards skills

[JakeF]

When there is a successful takedown, the engine checks the fighter who got taken down's standup slider. If it is high enough, the engine attempts an instant escape which has pretty high success. Mike said it would be too hard to fix those, so he just increased the td success and nerfed the regular escapes. Thats why at high level you are mostly seeing a takedown followed by escape.

[RegularJohn]

When there is a successful takedown, the engine checks the fighter who got taken down's standup slider. If it is high enough, the engine attempts an instant escape which has pretty high success. Mike said it would be too hard to fix those, so he just increased the td success and nerfed the regular escapes. Thats why at high level you are mostly seeing a takedown followed by escape.

 

I'm not necesarily defending the engine but this could be seen as a scramble which happens fairly often in real life.

[Rambo]

 

I agree. It's one of the most disappointing evolutions of MMA in my opinion. Zero incentive for staying on the ground but then I blame the judges and referees and mostly the rules for that.

 

What you don't see at the top level however is fighters who are sensational in boxing and muay thai and also both wrestling and BJJ. I can't think of a single fighter in the history of the sport who could be considered almost elite in all aspects of the game

 

 

For "MMA" you can argue GSP was in his heyday.

 

Had one of the best jabs in MMA (boxing), had amazing kicks/striking defense/clinch game (Strictly Muay Thai according to MMATycoon...), and he was an elite wrestler. I'd say BJJ wise he was probably a legit brown belt (maybe black belt) when he was the champ.

 

Jon Jones is another one that comes to mind. Exceptional/Elite/Elite/Brown or Black would probably be his mold in MMATycoon.

[BigLarry]

 

I'm not necesarily defending the engine but this could be seen as a scramble which happens fairly often in real life.

and yet you are, and no it does n't happen 'fairly often' in real MMA, for instance this fight:

http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=917830

[RegularJohn]

 

 

For "MMA" you can argue GSP was in his heyday.

 

Had one of the best jabs in MMA (boxing), had amazing kicks/striking defense/clinch game (Strictly Muay Thai according to MMATycoon...), and he was an elite wrestler. I'd say BJJ wise he was probably a legit brown belt (maybe black belt) when he was the champ.

 

Jon Jones is another one that comes to mind. Exceptional/Elite/Elite/Brown or Black would probably be his mold in MMATycoon.

 

You said "For 'MMA' " at the beginning which may make it all relative...

 

But I would rate their muay thai "Competent" at best and Jones' boxing "Abysmal". GSP with "amazing" kicks and "Elite" boxing just because of the jab? that's very friendly!

 

Anyway this doesn't matter at all I just like to point out how bad "MMA striking" is.

[RegularJohn]

and yet you are, and no it does n't happen 'fairly often' in real MMA, for instance this fight:

http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=917830

 

Looks like Aldo vs. Mendes.

 

Seriously though this is an 18 vs. 25 y/o QFC matchup. Anything could happen in a matchup like that depending on the skills chosen at creation. And how can you have a gripe with me saying something happens "fairly often"? How much is "fairly often"?

 

it happens enough that MMA has turned into wild brawling championships.

[BigLarry]

 

Looks like Aldo vs. Mendes.

 

Seriously though this is an 18 vs. 25 y/o QFC matchup. Anything could happen in a matchup like that depending on the skills chosen at creation. And how can you have a gripe with me saying something happens "fairly often"? How much is "fairly often"?

 

it happens enough that MMA has turned into wild brawling championships.

I don't know man you said 'fairly often' not me, I objected it and that is exactly my point, it does n't really make sense to describe the fights with vague adjectives without presenting any statistics and compare real MMA to MMA tycoon to just justify issues of the game, I just don't see any real statistics backing it up.

 

Based on the fights in the game, instant escape is overpowered and needs to be nerfed to have a balance between standup and ground, it s as simple as that pal.

[RegularJohn]

I don't know man you said 'fairly often' not me, I objected it and that is exactly my point, it does n't really make sense to describe the fights with vague adjectives without presenting any statistics and compare real MMA to MMA tycoon to just justify issues of the game, I just don't see any real statistics backing it up.

 

Based on the fights in the game, instant escape is overpowered and needs to be nerfed to have a balance between standup and ground, it s as simple as that pal.

 

I am the one who said it but you're the one who's making it out to be more than what I meant. I never intended to be "right" as backed up by statistics. Scrambles don't happen "fairly often/every fight/a couple times every fight" in real life? I certainly won't be the one to put effort into compiling statistics about it (it would be awesome if someone did that though). That was an empirical observation.

Anyway you would be right if I was trying to justify issues of the game at any cost but that's not the case. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate and providing a different point of view because complaining and negativity are already prevalent. if everybody was happy saying the engine is perfect then I would be pointing out instant escapes.

 

More or less I do believe the engine is pretty good. it could have a better balance between standup and ground but is instant escapes the big issue? it may be the number of moves that are done on the ground - Tycoon fight time flies incredibly fast on the ground.

[Rambo]

 

You said "For 'MMA' " at the beginning which may make it all relative...

 

But I would rate their muay thai "Competent" at best and Jones' boxing "Abysmal". GSP with "amazing" kicks and "Elite" boxing just because of the jab? that's very friendly!

 

Anyway this doesn't matter at all I just like to point out how bad "MMA striking" is.

 

 

Jon Jones boxing is at the very least respectable, and that's if you're being overly critical. MMA boxing doesn't necessarily translate to the ring just like boxing doesn't always translate to the cage. MMA striking isn't bad. It's just not suited for 10-14 oz gloves and a ring where you can only throw punches at each other.

[Timqwe]

 

You said "For 'MMA' " at the beginning which may make it all relative...

 

But I would rate their muay thai "Competent" at best and Jones' boxing "Abysmal". GSP with "amazing" kicks and "Elite" boxing just because of the jab? that's very friendly!

 

Anyway this doesn't matter at all I just like to point out how bad "MMA striking" is.

GSP certainly is not just a jab, even if that's how he fought sometimes. He also uses a very good left hook, right straight to the body and head, and always was a very good defensive boxer

[Rambo]

GSP certainly is not just a jab, even if that's how he fought sometimes. He also uses a very good left hook, right straight to the body and head, and always was a very good defensive boxer

 

 

I was pointing out how "Sensational" or "Elite" his jab was in his prime. I don't know if I'd say he was a great defensive boxer... I think that's a bit of a stretch imo but I'm sure our opinion on his 'striking defense' isn't very different.

[Alfred]

 

 

For "MMA" you can argue GSP was in his heyday.

 

Had one of the best jabs in MMA (boxing), had amazing kicks/striking defense/clinch game (Strictly Muay Thai according to MMATycoon...), and he was an elite wrestler. I'd say BJJ wise he was probably a legit brown belt (maybe black belt) when he was the champ.

 

Jon Jones is another one that comes to mind. Exceptional/Elite/Elite/Brown or Black would probably be his mold in MMATycoon.

 

I mean everyone is going to have a different opinion about this and I would agree that GSP was an extremely well rounded fighter but I don't think you could call his boxing Elite. His jab was in MMA but not his boxing overall. His MT was no where near Elite. His take down was elite for MMA and his BJJ was like you say legit Brown/Black. I would argue that GSP was more like Wonderful/Superb/Sensational?/Brown or Black with a lot of elite secondaries and physicals. Same with Jones. I would say his build would be remarkable/sensational/exceptional/purple with some elite secondaries and physicals.

 

I would definitely expect a debate about it though.

[Rambo]

 

I mean everyone is going to have a different opinion about this and I would agree that GSP was an extremely well rounded fighter but I don't think you could call his boxing Elite. His jab was in MMA but not his boxing overall. His MT was no where near Elite. His take down was elite for MMA and his BJJ was like you say legit Brown/Black. I would argue that GSP was more like Wonderful/Superb/Sensational?/Brown or Black with a lot of elite secondaries and physicals. Same with Jones. I would say his build would be remarkable/sensational/exceptional/purple with some elite secondaries and physicals.

 

I would definitely expect a debate about it though.

 

 

Jon Jones took down DC and has had no issues taking down opponents. I think his wrestling deserves some props. DC has gotta be what we would consider an elite wrestler in tycoon terms?

 

Officially JJ is a white or blue belt... but he's submitted black belts iirc... so hard to say his BJJ level wouldn't be brown. He's tapped out some really good fighters. Definitely exceptional-elite level sub offense.

[RegularJohn]

 

 

Jon Jones boxing is at the very least respectable, and that's if you're being overly critical. MMA boxing doesn't necessarily translate to the ring just like boxing doesn't always translate to the cage. MMA striking isn't bad. It's just not suited for 10-14 oz gloves and a ring where you can only throw punches at each other.

 

I'm thinking more of pure boxing/muay thai and applying it to MMA and you seem to be thinking of "translating" them to MMA. I would argue that Jones' and GSP's boxing and every mainstream MMA fighter's muay thai aren't within 20% ("Woeful") of the level of the elite at the pure sports. Like I said this doesn't matter at all as the pure sports certainly don't apply to MMA. it's just fantasy talk.

 

But even thinking of "MMA striking" as its own thing I do believe the level is pretty bad. In general, kicks are a non factor; knees are more of a detriment than a weapon; elbows just aren't used; and punches are overused in a sloppy manner.

 

I guess all the isometric energy used in grappling makes it imposbile for MMA fighters to become more loose and fluid at striking. But they could at least kick and knee with proper technique, stop darting in on a straight line and cut the brawling and winging punches. the way it's done these days everything is left to chance and chaos and a plumber with a slip and a cross counter is able to turn the sport upside down.