scottxbandz Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 i said what i said 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saklain Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 Very true. I had fights where I controlled the round but the judges give it to the other fighter because they won the standup fight in the first minute. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxbandz Posted November 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, saklain said: Very true. I had fights where I controlled the round but the judges give it to the other fighter because they won the standup fight in the first minute. this is my experience recently.. striking is basically equal, except for i have ground work and takedowns. and it gets scored in favor more of stuffing a takedown than getting a takedown.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 Scoring should be about "who achieved more in the round" IMO So if you had 3 punches land and stuffed 2 takedowns and your opponent had 1 punch land and landed 2 TD's but held you on the ground for over 3 mins and was able to achieve more and get 2 improve positions and 3 ground strikes, seems like opponent should win the round. Scoring can be imbalanced at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 control scores you a lot of points on the ground. even from ground bottom position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Rambo said: control scores you a lot of points on the ground. even from ground bottom position. It has always been game of cat and mouse, cheesing and RNG. If you are getting smashed with accurate shots from top guard your bottom control even with a superior wrestler means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, 10thPlanetKT said: It has always been game of cat and mouse, cheesing and RNG. If you are getting smashed with accurate shots from top guard your bottom control even with a superior wrestler means nothing. way too easy to nerf ground output, even with inferior grappler. just requires min level of physicals and defensive grappling. hence Dre "barney got aids" Battle snuffing ADA with ease despite ADA being vastly superior bjj and ground skills. no cat and mouse to it. just max control and crank up counter and let the ref stand up do his magic. also that strategy scores the one on ground bottom pts when fighter in top guard can't do anything and ref gets stand up, all the successful control from bottom basically nerfs the TD. that's why we see a fighter spend the entire round on top and still lose. assuming the defensive boost from high counter and control is a bit OP or GNP % isn't as effective as it should be. GNP is damage is fine, but maybe ground strike accuracy in general needs a massive boost. or missed GNP still resets ref stand up ticker. something's gotta give. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 A lot of things just seem like real life though? I won't get into what I've already got into with Scottie, but going off @saklain's comment, that's how a fight is scored in real life. Judging works on a tier based system, and control is at the bottom of the ladder and scored "very rarely". If you land three punches, get taken down, and neither does anything for the next 4 minutes 30 seconds, per the criteria unless the takedown was impactful enough to score, the 3 punches win. Commentary in MMA has made us forget that the inherent part of MMA is "fighting". Whoever hurts the other or gets closer to finishing the other "wins the fight", not whoever controls the other. Â @Rambothat's how real life works too though right? You get guys who are not even remotely close to as good a wrestler or jiu jitsu player as another, but it takes a lot less to defend a takedown or a sub than to achieve a takedown or a sub, so being a lower belt on the ground theoretically shouldn't be a big problem. From the fights I've read, it looks like counter transitions aren't as common as they should be. Most guard passes these days happen during the scramble as opposed to a clean transition. And as you say, maybe some more boosts to accurate gnp over powerful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 2 hours ago, clydebankblitz said: @Rambothat's how real life works too though right? You get guys who are not even remotely close to as good a wrestler or jiu jitsu player as another, but it takes a lot less to defend a takedown or a sub than to achieve a takedown or a sub, so being a lower belt on the ground theoretically shouldn't be a big problem. "it takes a lot less to defend a takedown or sub than to achieve one" bold statement and would disagree, only saying it's circumstantial. Skill, talent, and athleticism is everything. If you have Khabib cranking kimura on your arm, I think defending that might be a lot harder for you than for him trying to execute it. tell kevin holland and carlos condit defending a takedown is easy. What do GSP, DJ, Cejudo, Jon Jones, Stipe, Usman, arguably even Volk and Whitaker, all have in common? good at switching from striking to grappling, and more often than not, they're the superior grappler in their fights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 31 minutes ago, Rambo said: "it takes a lot less to defend a takedown or sub than to achieve one" bold statement and would disagree, only saying it's circumstantial. Skill, talent, and athleticism is everything. If you have Khabib cranking kimura on your arm, I think defending that might be a lot harder for you than for him trying to execute it. tell kevin holland and carlos condit defending a takedown is easy. What do GSP, DJ, Cejudo, Jon Jones, Stipe, Usman, arguably even Volk and Whitaker, all have in common? good at switching from striking to grappling, and more often than not, they're the superior grappler in their fights. What I mean is GSP isn't going to fuck with some of those amateur wrestling champions he faced in MMA. Jose Aldo isn't going to beat Chad Mendes in a wrestling match. If the aim of the game is "Take each other down and pin", a lot of these guys aren't going to be able to kill it, but when you bring it into the context of a wider game, they have had great success matching the takedown attempts or even taking down their opponents. You're saying "If you have Khabib cranking on a kimura"....well it sounds like you haven't exactly defended well to that point have you? Haha. Even Khabib has had a lot of submission attempts in his early career and a lot of times got nowhere, even though his opponent couldn't fuck with him on the ground. Submitting someone is always significantly harder than defending a submission, however that doesn't mean either are easy (as you say, Holland and Condit still can't defend a single takedown). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxbandz Posted November 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 15 hours ago, Lefty said: Scoring should be about "who achieved more in the round" IMO So if you had 3 punches land and stuffed 2 takedowns and your opponent had 1 punch land and landed 2 TD's but held you on the ground for over 3 mins and was able to achieve more and get 2 improve positions and 3 ground strikes, seems like opponent should win the round. Scoring can be imbalanced at times. yes if TD was 50/50Â stuffed and success and control on the ground was achieved for over half the round you should take that round... it feels like they score more in favor of stuffing a takedown than scoring a takedown which seems backwards.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxbandz Posted November 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 8 hours ago, Rambo said: assuming the defensive boost from high counter and control is a bit OP or GNP % isn't as effective as it should be. GNP is damage is fine, but maybe ground strike accuracy in general needs a massive boost. or missed GNP still resets ref stand up ticker. something's gotta give. i feel like to achieve good levels of GNP with damage and aggression it is still really easy to cheese like you said... if they manage to control or counter advance position because you HAVE to be aggressive with the GNP basically then it diminishes a lot of the values to having a grappler.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, scottxbandz said: i feel like to achieve good levels of GNP with damage and aggression it is still really easy to cheese like you said... if they manage to control or counter advance position because you HAVE to be aggressive with the GNP basically then it diminishes a lot of the values to having a grappler.. there's OP strategy combined w/ min level of physicals and def grappling. respectable-- bjj blue belt can nerf elite bjj. way more often than not. you score points for takedowns, similar to how you score points for punches. it's what happens after the takedown that is really dictating the score cards. successful control = pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bynum Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 So I finally discover the point of "control" over "finish," because in terms of advancing, preventing opponent advances, and the same with GNP and Subs, it doesn't seem to do much. But what I guess it does is it can help you win on points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxbandz Posted January 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 11/11/2021 at 7:05 PM, Bynum said: So I finally discover the point of "control" over "finish," because in terms of advancing, preventing opponent advances, and the same with GNP and Subs, it doesn't seem to do much. But what I guess it does is it can help you win on points. good info i dont know how i missed you saying this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator001 Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 i just won a twgc div 1 with a stand up fighter exactly how CK described above. Kickboxer against elite wrestlers with red belts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameikegame Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 5 hours ago, Gator001 said: i just won a twgc div 1 with a stand up fighter exactly how CK described above. Kickboxer against elite wrestlers with red belts I think the belts needs to be revaluated, it does not make sense to be a red belt and be beaten by lower belt. the belt valuation and importance is not being reflected adequately in the game. One should not be a red belt if they do not have enough physical or skills to march up with it. sparring BJJ can take you to red or black belt, even thou your physical and secondaries are poor. i think more value and respects to be given to the belts and to earn this should be more worthy. I understand that brings the competition to the game. but its frustrating and annoying to be classed as red belt to be smashed by purple belt. could that be a slider problem may be. but to be honest if you are a red belt fighter even if you do not set your slider should you not be able to beat some that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 But if they did that where would the fun of the game be? If you get to red belt and you can automatically beat anyone under red belt in the game, then why would anyone under red belt ever accept that fight? Randomness, sliders and variability is what makes it a game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon73 Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, clydebankblitz said: But if they did that where would the fun of the game be? If you get to red belt and you can automatically beat anyone under red belt in the game, then why would anyone under red belt ever accept that fight? Randomness, sliders and variability is what makes it a game. Problem is how easy it is for purple and blues to survive once things do get to the ground vs black and red. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 between high control/counter, weird scoring for the guy on the bottom due to high control, and ref stand ups, hard life for the grappler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy808 Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 sub spammers get zero sympathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 38 minutes ago, andy808 said: sub spammers get zero sympathy sub spamming. TD spamming. punch spamming. kick spamming. clinch spamming. apples and oranges. at the end of the day, ground game needs improved to fairly represent MMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon73 Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, andy808 said: sub spammers get zero sympathy Wouldn't have to spam if Purple belts weren't un subable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Icon73 said: Wouldn't have to spam if Purple belts weren't un subable. Wouldn't need to spam ground offense if ref stand ups weren't as common. being able to control from bottom is too easily done. closed guard is one thing... but half guard and side control ref stand ups shouldn't be almost non-existence unless top fighter is set to high control/high counter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 He wasnt talking about real life this time lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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