ChronicCrush Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I think def grap should be changed to "position" to make it sound more like it functions. So you'd have, Submission, Position, Transition, Escape... Position would be the exact same thing as def grap so no changes except the name would be necessary. Anyone who trains knows the importance of obtaining and holding proper positioning to avoid or execute transitions, escapes and subs. I was looking at the new stats and Def Grap just seems out of place now. What ya think? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzekelRAGE Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Does this mean dgrap=submission defense? Defends subs and GNP. Helps stop your opponent transitioning. Helps stop your opponent standing up/escaping. Those are the main ones. I think it's used a bit in other stuff too - can't remember for sure without trawling through all the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yep, this is a good idea. It was also mentioned in that thread as well. I think they should pay full price for each gym. A pay per session thing is bad imo for the gym owner. They dont have any guaranteed revenue even though they may have a high number of members. I also agree another page for setting training with all gyms would help/be needed as well. I see your point about the gym fees... I was trying to think about cost to newer managers that aren't terribly wealthy, but that can perhaps be alleviated some other way. I think that the changes that ultimately over-emphasize age will encourage more ID hiding. ID Hiding: Only fighting in ID restricted Orgs, despite having the appropriate skills to fight any and all challengers. Does this game really need more roadblocks to top fighters fighting each other? It is already one step away from professional boxing... Look at some of the ID restricted orgs. Most of the fighters in those orgs are no where near what the "top fighters" are like. Fighting in ID restricted orgs only is perfectly fine except in the case of those that do, in-fact hide a superiour fighter in ID restricted orgs in order to crush cans and pad records. For the most part though most fighters in those orgs are not ready for the shark tank of unrestricted orgs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes they are very frequent but if that is the case imo it should be stated that the fighter really did brake his hand durring that fight. Imo it's not realistic if he brakes his hand every fight. Soar hands and some bruces sure. But if he goes out for a long period due to broken hand, again I think that should be put into words as a fact after the fight rather than guessing. But then again the feeling I'm getting from readin the other posts is that injurys will not be that bad so it might never become an issue. Hands do get injured a lot but they don't brake every fight If you're unhappy with the level of your injuries, you always have the option of selecting that as one of your hidden boosts at creation if you so wish. The choice is yours... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronix Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 It's not the level of injurys. It's getting injured while being the one that's the victor without being touched by your opponant. A 3 round 15 min war I have no issues about being hurt. not even 1 round, 55 second, 5 punches and out for 8 days... really? ... unless you really did brake your hand on those 5 punches thrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 No different really, though, to ending up with the most paper-like of skin and cutting up all the time, the most pillow-like of hands meaning that despite landing hundreds of punches they don't get the KO, etc. You only get three choices of hiddens to boost so you make your choice and have to live with it. That may well mean your fighter ends up with a terrible roll on other hiddens. Trust me, I know as I have some very injury-prone fighters 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp61503 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 It's not the level of injurys. It's getting injured while being the one that's the victor without being touched by your opponant. A 3 round 15 min war I have no issues about being hurt. not even 1 round, 55 second, 5 punches and out for 8 days... really? ... unless you really did brake your hand on those 5 punches thrown ill admit i have often thought the same thing, I have had fights where they lasted 5-10 seconds 1 punch and my guys out 10+ days, one time it was even 16....but then i really started to think about it and its realistic somewhat because you can hurt yourself doing nothing at all. You can blow a knee just by taking a step granted these things dont happen often, but people like myself are very injury prone. Right now i have a torn tendon, meniscus, in one knee and a torn hamstring in the other leg...i have no clue how it happened either but they did. Like i said people who are as injury prone as me are rare but in a game like this where you can roll a bad hidden its not that off. You can also have an injury from training going into a fight that no one knows about until after, things like JDS/Cain 1 both guys were injured but it wasnt found out until after, and SIlva v Sonnen 1 etc. You can have a slight injury going into a fight maybe a bruised hand that breaks easy due to its weakend state etc. Now i have always said the way to fix things like this and make it more realistic is to make certain hiddens more rare i think right now you can roll 0-150 with not % of where you can land. i think there should be for instance ill use Granite chin or just chin hidden. 1-30 on a roll should only happen say 5% of the time. on the flip side 120-150 should only happen 5% of the time. 31-60 should happen maybe 10% of the time, and 119-100 maybe 10%. then maybe 70% of the rolls land in the 61-99(100) range of course these are just random #'s and percentages but it gets my point accross better then i could otherwise lol. That would be how i fix it though it would make things like people who injury really easy rare, people who have great/awful chins more rare, people who dont get hurt ever rare, cutters etc. I think it would be even better for things like KO Power 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 No different really, though, to ending up with the most paper-like of skin and cutting up all the time, the most pillow-like of hands meaning that despite landing hundreds of punches they don't get the KO, etc. You only get three choices of hiddens to boost so you make your choice and have to live with it. That may well mean your fighter ends up with a terrible roll on other hiddens. Trust me, I know as I have some very injury-prone fighters My problem with it is the injury hidden went from being a rarely, if ever, picked hidden to one of the most important in game because it now helps govern how long your fighter's career will be and his max potential. Kind of a kick in the nuts to me because I have 4 fighters over 300 days and one just under. I think this is going to really hurt a lot of the elite orgs as many of these older, injury prone fighters will just get retired rather than have their legacies tarnished by losing a bunch of fights at the end. Especially with the huge hype hit you receive as a manager when your 500 p4p fighter loses. I also think that the chance that a fighter will enter into a decline stage of anything other than physicals at 28 is rather ridiculous. Even having your physicals decline at this stage will be pretty rough, I would hope that it would only happen to a small percentage of fighters. I'll have to wait and see I guess 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 meh stupid thumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Now i have always said the way to fix things like this and make it more realistic is to make certain hiddens more rare i think right now you can roll 0-150 with not % of where you can land. i think there should be for instance ill use Granite chin or just chin hidden. 1-30 on a roll should only happen say 5% of the time. on the flip side 120-150 should only happen 5% of the time. 31-60 should happen maybe 10% of the time, and 119-100 maybe 10%. then maybe 70% of the rolls land in the 61-99(100) range of course these are just random #'s and percentages but it gets my point accross better then i could otherwise lol. That would be how i fix it though it would make things like people who injury really easy rare, people who have great/awful chins more rare, people who dont get hurt ever rare, cutters etc. I think it would be even better for things like KO Power I think I quite like this concept, though wouldn't it lead to a lot of Bispings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Before everyone cries they sky is falling in about injuries - has anyone checked just how many days worth of injuries a fighter must have before he starts to decline? Why would the injuy hidden become the most important? I don't believe Mike said that the injury hidden governs Potential - I was pretty sure he said a new hidden called "potential" would govern potential - Yes the injury hidden can have a deciding factor on the length of the career but it's not like one day your fighter is a beast and the next day he is a dud because he has a bad injury roll. People need to take a breathe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp61503 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 that is possible but Bisping has done quite well for himself . I think it could do a lot of things it could make it more competitive game, but you never fully know how anything will work out until put into action. I think I quite like this concept, though wouldn't it lead to a lot of Bispings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm all for the changes the only one I don't understand is that all fighters have a potential of 77-80% so everyone will be within 3% of each other in their prime, but in real life that is no where near the case. Not even the top 5 in any weight could you say there is only 3% difference in them but this 3% is within the whole gaming world. Is there only 3% difference in potential between Anderson Silva and Alex Reid? No. Personally I'd make Potential a hidden and could be anything from 50-95% high end being rare. But rather than being able to see this hidden quickly by taking a QCF as no one could tell someone's true potential in 3 days unless they are some crazy freak but rather after a certain time limit you get coaches feedback from gym saying Fighter A Has World Class potential (95% if trained right) Fighter B is Fantastic Potential (90%) Fighter C has the potential of a McDonalds worker (50%). Not everyone would reach the potential due to bad management or injuries taking their toll would be done to the manager to bring out the best and make them great. Also consistancy would be a good hidden as even the most skilled fighters have ad days at the office, some less often than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I think I quite like this concept, though wouldn't it lead to a lot of Bispings? I like the way it is, with the changes coming already. Our skills are going to be so spread out, I think hiddens will be even more important to make a top fighter. With the hiddens now, you have just as much chance for a dud as a stud. With them all even, people will all more than likely have close to the same hiddens, so what good is it to have a good chin, if everyone has KO power. I think it will make good hidden choice even more important to your build because you have a limit to how much skill you are going to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I didnt word that very good, I say leave hiddens as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Frankly, the injury thing is what it is... fighters careers end all the time in real life due to injuries... especially persistent ones that keep cropping up. Let's analyze this a bit though... I week in real life is a month in-game. A broken hand, even a simple break is going to take 6-10 weeks to heal properly. Plus then you have physical therapy to attend to get the strength and mobility back into it before you can start training in earnest... forget about fighting in that time frame because you will certainly re-injure yourself. So at six weeks that broken metacarpal will take at least a week and a half, real time, to heal. That is a 10-11 day injury. I don't typically see those kinds of injuries in the game what result from a one sided beat down. Not for the winner I mean. Even if it was 10-12 days worth of injury that is no a huge amount of time to sit out... I mention that I thought it was funny to see a fight end with one punch and the winner get a lengthy injury from it, but I don't think it is terribly unrealistic. I also think that this will mean that a lot more people are going to think about that injury hidden in the future. But really with Doctors/Surgeons coming at some point in the future, only the most injury prone fighters or the ones who have been in wars for a long time and have fought a bunch of times are in any real jeopardy. And frankly, they should be thinking about retirement anyway. In WeBL, a boxing sim I used to play (and where I know Stu from as a matter of fact), every 400 injury points dropped one of your ability points by one. If you took lot of ass whoopings you lost a few points and in that game losing even two points meant you were pretty much screwed. This system would not translate directly to this game and that is not what I am advocating, but rather what I am saying is that with the greater level of programing that this game seems to have the proposed system will make for a more organic decline due to injuries. Surgery being able to mitigate that some is just another cool thing in this game and another nod towards realism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm all for the changes the only one I don't understand is that all fighters have a potential of 77-80% so everyone will be within 3% of each other in their prime, but in real life that is no where near the case. Not even the top 5 in any weight could you say there is only 3% difference in them but this 3% is within the whole gaming world. Is there only 3% difference in potential between Anderson Silva and Alex Reid? No. Personally I'd make Potential a hidden and could be anything from 50-95% high end being rare. But rather than being able to see this hidden quickly by taking a QCF as no one could tell someone's true potential in 3 days unless they are some crazy freak but rather after a certain time limit you get coaches feedback from gym saying Fighter A Has World Class potential (95% if trained right) Fighter B is Fantastic Potential (90%) Fighter C has the potential of a McDonalds worker (50%). Not everyone would reach the potential due to bad management or injuries taking their toll would be done to the manager to bring out the best and make them great. Also consistancy would be a good hidden as even the most skilled fighters have ad days at the office, some less often than others. I agree in terms of realism but can you imagine training a guy for a real life year then realising he's a complete dud and can never make it? I'd be pissed off. If it was a team sport where you buy and sell squads of people that'd be fine but not when it's individual careers (imo). If we did the coach scouting thing you suggest, that'd just be a longer, more annoying version of testing learning speed. I think people'd get disillusioned with that as a tedious and potentially downheartening process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I agree in terms of realism but can you imagine training a guy for a real life year then realising he's a complete dud and can never make it? I'd be pissed off. If it was a team sport where you buy and sell squads of people that'd be fine but not when it's individual careers (imo). If we did the coach scouting thing you suggest, that'd just be a longer, more annoying version of testing learning speed. I think people'd get disillusioned with that as a tedious and potentially downheartening process. Could it be put into effect so that the current fighters have the 77-80% and fighters from example 220K and onwards have the bigger swing in potential. Could e worked out in 3-6 months the level of a fighters potential but has nothing to do with a fighters learning skill. It wouldn't bother me searching and waiting for that potential star and having some duds. No agent or fight camp has purely great fighters some are just skilled in certain areas but on here we could have 20 equally as talented fighters which would be unlikely. I'm not having a moan as I'm all for changes just throwing out another idea that could move things forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomar1987 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 You'll see all that on the page where you reallocate points. link please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Could it be put into effect so that the current fighters have the 77-80% and fighters from example 220K and onwards have the bigger swing in potential. Could e worked out in 3-6 months the level of a fighters potential but has nothing to do with a fighters learning skill. It wouldn't bother me searching and waiting for that potential star and having some duds. No agent or fight camp has purely great fighters some are just skilled in certain areas but on here we could have 20 equally as talented fighters which would be unlikely. I'm not having a moan as I'm all for changes just throwing out another idea that could move things forward. Legend somewhere realism needs to give way for playability - this game is at the end of the day about a bunch of numbers interacting wih other to spit out a result. So it would be foolish to widen the gap in potential.. The game as it, relies extremely heavily on hiddens as it is (one bad one out of a bunch of many ruins a fighter). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Why would the injuy hidden become the most important? I don't believe Mike said that the injury hidden governs Potential - I was pretty sure he said a new hidden called "potential" would govern potential - Yes the injury hidden can have a deciding factor on the length of the career but it's not like one day your fighter is a beast and the next day he is a dud because he has a bad injury roll. From the new wiki page: Total injuries also play a part in how quickly your fighter declines, once he hits his drop off point. The more injuries sustained over his career, the more skills he will lose per year. If you have sustained a lot of injuries over your career, it’s more likely that points will be taken off your physicals during your age based skill decline. Also, the total injuries your fighter sustains over the course of his career, will bring down your “Potential” hidden. We may well add in physios / doctors surgeries during the second half of this year, to help you combat this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Thanks for answering my questions guys. BTW does potential include physicals or just secondary and primary skills stated on the wiki? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 It's not the level of injurys. It's getting injured while being the one that's the victor without being touched by your opponant. A 3 round 15 min war I have no issues about being hurt. not even 1 round, 55 second, 5 punches and out for 8 days... really? ... unless you really did brake your hand on those 5 punches thrown Oh, not this crap again... We've been over this a thousand times. Fedor broke his hands all the time while punching peoples' brains in. Your fighter could have pulled his groin sprawling or even during warm ups. The cut man got vaseline in his eye. Hell, if you want to complain about getting injured after punching your opponent 5 times, you should also complain about the game not giving you injuries in training. That would be realistic. If the game is unrealistic, is because it's way too kind. It allows you to train with injuries. In real life, fighters who win after five punches get injured too but as they can't train effectively with their injuries, they start to lag and often retire. In other words, the game doesn't have a unrealisticly high injury rate, it's just that the real life fighters you see on your tv typically have a good injury hidden. The others retire before they even get to Bellator or UFC. The world of fighting is littered with great talents who didn't make it to the top due to injuries. If you don't want your fighter to be one of them, pick the injury hidden. The game's injuries don't even matter that much unless you plan on fighting again before your fighter's energy is even at 100%. There's nothing wrong with the system as it is. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Mike can you give any info on what the 'few new sliders' will be yet? I'd kind of assumed it was going to be the option to counter with either takedowns or strikes as that was talked about a lot before and you made a comment about it in the last week or so, is that a correct assumption? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8498/slidersu.jpg Yes potential does include physicals. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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