Scooby Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 So what are we saying? This thread blew up a few days ago talking about an issue that needs to be resolved and now it seems like we are just finding excuses to leave it fucked up again 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Yea this thread has started to go off topic. Lets bring it back to recommendations for the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Just need to dial back ref stands ups a slight bit and dial up takedown efficiency just a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 My fighters get taken down a lot, with more frequent takedowns i would get grapplefucked like shit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 My fighters get taken down a lot, with more frequent takedowns i would get grapplefucked like shit. These recommendations are really in regards to the higher levels when fighters have hit their skill limit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Oh. I'm saved then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 IMO there is a simple solution to make the ground game more powerful: let referees to stand up fighters ONLY if both fighters are stalling + introduce the god damn escapes skill which we already have to the game (make it effective)! The fighter who wanted to get up would have to EARN the stand up with the skills and tactics. Right now the refs GIVE the stand up to that fighter if he just holds on and stall enough or w/e. This change would require the takedown defence to be as powerful as it currently is though or else the balance would just swing completely from strikers to grapplers. In IRL MMA we see takedowns all the time and we see fighters standing up all the time too. Many times fighters immediately scramble up after td becouse they have trained exactly that. We very rarely see refs standing the fighters up if there is any action happening on the ground. Right now all this is completely backwards in our precious little game here. Why have escapes if they are rendered useless? I just don't get it. Just my 2c. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Getting into the clinch is harder than a takedown I feel.. Added to that if you are a grappler then you may actually scrimp a little on clinch to boost the stats you need for the ground game.. Meaning you may get into the clinch but that's exactly where your opponent wants you.. You get clinch raped and lose the energy you need for the takedown... Not to mention clinch takedowns actually land at a much lower % than shoot takedowns do... During the CTD period, getting the clinch was a great way to nullify your opponent.. I'm not even sure if takedowns score you enough points anymore - well not judging from my last 2 losses.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=728503 Abbott is sen++ clinch work, Triple Elite - his opponent had wonderful MT and Elite wrestling.. In 2 fights Abbott who won them both went 4 and 26 in clinch attempts the last fight it was 0-15 in a 5 round fight.. Certainly not going to work for a grappler who probably isn't going to have as high clinch and will more than likely be at a disadvantage in MT to try and clinch to get the takedown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think it's pretty much the same with clinching than what I suggested above with stand ups. We need it to be closer to what we see in IRL MMA: getting into clinch should be easier and getting out of the clinch should be easier. Fighters should be exposed to strikes when coming in and when breaking the clinch and those moves should also take out energy (to make spamming it a bad idea). IMO this way clinching would be more realistic. + I would boost the effectiveness of elbows and knees when mixed up with punches and I would nref them a little bit if just spamming elbows and/or knees. Mixing it up should be the key in pretty much everything IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Honestly... who does he struggle to take down in that division? Keeping them there or doing anything effective, different story. Considering Alves, Condit, Brown, and Maia (by default) have never shown a lick-of-td def, I strongly disagree with the notion that Ben would struggle taking down fighters in the UFC's top 10. Alves made Koscheck look like a scrub with his TDD. Maia outwrestled Chael.I've been out of the game for a while, what exactly is so broken about the predict sliders? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well I hope some changes are made. I like there to be a solid ground game in MMAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catako Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Certanly I have been gone when this issue appeared. And I didn't had any fight since I've come back , but in my opinion with the "Predict opponent tactics" you can set the bar to 80-100% takedown and you tire him down when he goes for it, but you are predisposed to standing hits if you put it that way. I kind of like the addition to the game with the prediction but surely haven't tested it yet, and I'm sure your worries are legit. Will hopefully get 5-10 fights this month and maybe I come to the same conclusion or maybe not. PS. I'm not defending mike or anything but whenever I had a problem and I' sure whenever most of us had a problem he camed with a solution in the appropiate time. To change a game sistem from my experience is not so easy. With every change there can be bug or more and I think mike is considering the best option to take care of the game to run as close to the real life as possible PS.2 I did some training of mma and I came with a kickboxing background, but after 10 attempts to get down a newbie (I was a newbie 2 at that time) I came pretty close to fainthing on top of him when I finally took him for a slam. I'm also pro for making escapes more involved into the simulation and I think it will fix the stand up as well, as most probably the fighter will try to get up more quickly than rather stall till the ref stand them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Certanly I have been gone when this issue appeared. And I didn't had any fight since I've come back , but in my opinion with the "Predict opponent tactics" you can set the bar to 80-100% takedown and you tire him down when he goes for it, but you are predisposed to standing hits if you put it that way. This is what i do and it seems to work well, i have no gripe with predictive sliders. I think Agent Dee hit the nail on the head, stop giving fighters a referee standup unless both fighters are stalling (not for missed strikes) and make them use escapes to stand. The biggest issue is that when you get a takedown, you cant keep anyone there for long for it to be worth anything. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Alves made Koscheck look like a scrub with his TDD. Maia outwrestled Chael. Ben Askren (wrestling) > Sonnen > Koscheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Askren might be the best wrestler in MMA but we can't know for sure untill he fights the best guys. Or at least a little better competition. :E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyMuchacho Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 The current problem with the ground game is getting the fight there. Today I read a fight with my sensational wrestler flailing TDs against a feeble wrestler. 1/7 landed I think. And yes I know how to set sliders and yes he has his physicals. At the risk of sounding Lockdownish, I have to say this bullshit is enough to make me want to have an e-tantrum. Almost... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Lets work on agreeing on a remedy and then offering it up to mike... People who still deny the reality of a problem and sit here naming off real life fighters please save us the time so we can find a solution 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPenn Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 SonnyMuchacho The current problem with the ground game is getting the fight there. Today I read a fight with my sensational wrestler flailing TDs against a feeble wrestler. 1/7 landed I think. And yes I know how to set sliders and yes he has his physicals.At the risk of sounding Lockdownish, I have to say this bullshit is enough to make me want to have an e-tantrum.Almost... Right on the money, been sick of this for a long time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teufel Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 IMO there is a simple solution to make the ground game more powerful: let referees to stand up fighters ONLY if both fighters are stalling + introduce the god damn escapes skill which we already have to the game (make it effective)! The fighter who wanted to get up would have to EARN the stand up with the skills and tactics. Right now the refs GIVE the stand up to that fighter if he just holds on and stall enough or w/e. This change would require the takedown defence to be as powerful as it currently is though or else the balance would just swing completely from strikers to grapplers. In IRL MMA we see takedowns all the time and we see fighters standing up all the time too. Many times fighters immediately scramble up after td becouse they have trained exactly that. We very rarely see refs standing the fighters up if there is any action happening on the ground. Right now all this is completely backwards in our precious little game here. Why have escapes if they are rendered useless? I just don't get it. Just my 2c. My thoughts as well...make the ground control spammer earn the stand up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Lets work on agreeing on a remedy and then offering it up to mike... People who still deny the reality of a problem and sit here naming off real life fighters please save us the time so we can find a solution yes please well, you don't have to agree on a remedy - just agree on a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think takedowns should not be so dependent on energy. A lot of the complaints have been that if a grappler cant get a takedown early he is doomed because his energy just gets sapped. If takedowns are not as dependent on energy that may not mean an insta-loss. The other thing is thing is that referee standups should be less frequent. Making it completely realistic to the point where referee standups are extremely rare, as they are in real life may be too big of a change and it will surely piss off a lot of people who have no escapes. If you just make it balanced enough to the point where some people may consider getting escapes instead of just laying and praying for a standup that would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 The best way to both balance the game a bit and make it more realistic is to make it much more fluid. Watching high level MMA, you see constant positional movements. A guy gets taken down, he gets up, there is a clinch, the clinch is broken, half a minute of standup then another clinch, a takedown and then a scramble can all happen in a minute or two. In the game we see two or three positional changes a round because its difficult to clinch or get a td and its difficult to escape or break the clinch. Perhaps we can come up with a "risk" slider, i.e. how much danger the fighter will put himself in to accomplish a positional change. Does he leave himself open to strikes while trying a TD or breaking/entering a clinch? How vulnerable does he make himself to submissions or gnp when trying to stand? You could use this slider to give both yourself(changing position) and your opponent(attacks) a bonus during positional changes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Maybe there is an easier solution.. Take the AI out of the ground game, if fighters are set do do something then they should do it.. fighters default to more controlling tactics when they hit the ground to regain the energy lost before they got there.. The striker who has just been taken down is certainly going to control - next thing you know 2 fighters are controlling for different reasons and you get the stand up. However if my fighter is set to 55 aggression and 70% finish - regardless of the energy he has when he hit the ground controlling should be the least used ground move. He should be advancing and striking.. Energy loss could be based soley off aggression and not finish on the ground and that way to keeping energy levels closer on the ground - your ground fighter up against the typical 90/90 counter/control wouldn't have to be as aggressive (just have a higher lvl of finish), therefore not using as much energy but also being able to keep the fight down and start to take some energy from his opponent 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyMuchacho Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 yes please well, you don't have to agree on a remedy - just agree on a problem. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I am saying a technical fix would be to start by upping takedown % landed. I believe there is a consensus on this at least. And if I'm not mistaken, it seems like you may have overshot the % of agg necessary to keep a fight on the ground recently. There is definitely a (relatively) consensual feeling on this as a problem. 2 great places to start, IMO, and not too in depth on code changing or writing. I'll go back to my tea now... Thanks for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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