Fight Engine Discussion

[edwardsfan]

 

1. So lets say for argument sake i create a skill with 110 point in it. The skill will train as fast as the skill where i put 1 point in, since on the first creation day, neither of the skill has been trained yet. Is that about right?

 

 

I do not think that is what Mike is talking about. But it would be awesome if it was what he was talking about. If the very first session at 110 trained as fast as your first session would at 1 then that would allow for fighters to specialize early on and start fighting early on. Which is the single biggest improvement this game could have

 

As it is now with training getting slower as skill level gets higher it forces you to even fighters out early on and point farm

[madbob]

I do not think that is what Mike is talking about. But it would be awesome if it was what he was talking about. If the very first session at 110 trained as fast as your first session would at 1 then that would allow for fighters to specialize early on and start fighting early on. Which is the single biggest improvement this game could have

 

As it is now with training getting slower as skill level gets higher it forces you to even fighters out early on and point farm

 

Well that`s why i am asking.

[EzekelRAGE]

I haven't said a word, mostly because I'm half way out of the game anyways but here are some things that should really be done:

 

1. Primes should be a collective skill of your related secondary skills. This means you can't be elite in BJJ if you have no subs and similar on M/T if you have no elbow's/knee's and wrestling if you have no TD or GnP.

I really like this. It was what I was trying to say in my knowledge or w/e post but I worded it very stupidly and went backwards as hell with it.

 

So training will go to a temp system based on number of sessions trained (then go back to the old age learning system?) and all phys will be slid down for all?

 

Mike would it be possible to just take the w/e physical % we are suppose to have in the new system and let us manually put where we want each physical at? With the excess points being used to put into w/e secondary we want. Maybe that would help some with the transition?

 

-----------More on the above going on a larger scale, would it be possible to get a "customize fighter" type thing going. Where for like 3 days or the week this change(physicals change) is implemented you can go to the newly made "customize fighter" tab in the sidebar. This will allow you to get the total number of skill points for each skill set and put them how you want it until the deadline. So if you have Wondix4 primaries, wonderful for all secondaries. You would get 440 total points to puch in the primaries howevery you choose and 1430 for secondary points. Physicals would be the same but after they scale down.

-----You can't go on the customize fighter while having a fight scheduled or on offer.

[JLP]

I havent seen it mentioned, but I always assumed that the overall cap would be dropped at the same time as the physicals are done. Can you confirm or reject that notion Mike?

[EzekelRAGE]

I havent seen it mentioned, but I always assumed that the overall cap would be dropped at the same time as the physicals are done. Can you confirm or reject that notion Mike?

yea, would need that cleared up. Thought the overall cap got postponed for more feedback/everything get ironed out/see how physical cap changes things.

[MMATycoon]

Lots of stuff to answer

 

1. The overall cap going down at the same time.

It's staying the same kinda.... The cap will stay at e.g. 117/150 (if that's what your hidden is), but primaries will count as 1.375, whereas secondaries will count as 1. That number came from just looking at a selection of top fighters and was the number that essentially kept the status quo.

 

2. Primaries just being a summary of secondaries. I think it's an equally valid concept to what we have now but can you imagine what stink people would kick off if you got rid of primaries? You'd have to remove sparring all together imo. Plus what about people who want to have good MT but don't want to throw elbows? They just end up with worse MT? I tell you what, you guys propose that

 

3. Choosing physicals as a reallocation. I really don't like it but I will think about it.

 

4. Hospitals. Enormous job, so not gunna happen, sorry.

5. madbob, that's not what I mean. What it would mean though, is that a 25 year old with no training sessions would train as fast as an 18 year old who's had no training sessions. It's fundamentally very different. Then for any session of training they have, they train very slightly slower. Whereas we used to have a drop once per year, of let's say 5% slower, now you'd get slower by 0.04% after every session, which works out at 5% slower every 120 sessions (an approximation of how many training sessions people do each in game year). Those numbers are just egs, not the actual numbers.

To pre-empt a question on 16 and 17 year olds, I think we'd just not have that sessions ticker until they hit 18.

 

6. "Does the level of your cardio directly impact the amount of energy that you gain back during the fight". I'm pretty sure it does, yes. PM me to remind me to check.

7. "It makes no sense to have cardio effect training. You're just taking away the very diversity that you're trying to create in the first place. Because you're making it mandatory of sorts to have at least a moderately high level of cardio to ensure you train max number of sessions per week. Cardio should be considered as merely a fight stat and that even the most under conditioned fighter could still show up the gym each day."

 

Edwardsfan, when you're not being an irritating prick, you do say sensible things

I think this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. I don't think it will make any difference to how people allocate their physicals though.

 

 

I think that's everything. If it's not, I'm sure you'll tell me.

[EzekelRAGE]

Why was I under the impression that when the ovr cap was talked about for skills/primaries it was talkinb about thing being scaled down? Maybe I was gettin it jumbled with physical talk.

 

If physicals are just being weighted more, doesn't seem that bad. Although Im not really at a point where I've used a ton of time on my guy's physicals.

[Timmy]

Aren't high kicks based on flexibility? If so will thresholds be lowered for actually hitting them?

 

 

 

Yes, high kicks need flexibility. I'd rather play any of these things by ear rather than say we need to change the % that land. It's super easy to change the land percent on anything though, if people feel it's been made too difficult.

 

Making high kicks easier to compensate for the cost of flexibility under new rules?? Madness.

The aim is to make physicals relevant and varied.

Want a high kicker? Then pay for the flex at the cost of other physicals. That's the whole point!

[MMATycoon]

Why was I under the impression that when the ovr cap was talked about for skills/primaries it was talkinb about thing being scaled down? Maybe I was gettin it jumbled with physical talk.

 

If physicals are just being weighted more, doesn't seem that bad. Although Im not really at a point where I've used a ton of time on my guy's physicals.

 

Physicals will have their own cap.

The old overall cap will now just govern primaries and secondaries. But primaries will be weighted more under that cap (1.375 to 1).

 

Both caps are at the same level of whatever your hidden is (e.g. 117 or 78%).

[MMATycoon]

Making high kicks easier to compensate for the cost of flexibility under new rules?? Madness.

The aim is to make physicals relevant and varied.

Want a high kicker? Then pay for the flex at the cost of other physicals. That's the whole point!

 

That's what I was initially going to say. However, we don't want to make high kicks go redundant if not enough people end up using them because the expense of those points isn't worth the reward... We'll see how it goes and we'll balance the risk / reward.

[rjs2442]

 

Anyway we'd be able to get a period of time where we can release fighters w/ no VIP costs. I'm thinking I may just take this opportunity to overhaul my roster for the most part because of the changes being implemented & it'd be nice to not have to wait 15 days to cut a guy or have to spend a crazy amount of money on VIP to do a mass release

I am pretty sure this being included will certainly lessen the blow for many. I am hopeful it is not only considered but implemented. Also reallocation is definitely another item I am hopeful is a go, once again this would likely decrease the number of managers running for the hills in anger. at least I think it would

[itakebrides]

Now that we talking about engines changes i like to see change to the experience hidden .See to be pretty redundant and unrealistic .I think there should be no cap on the amount of experience a fighter has but it get progressively harder to gain it the more fights you have like the graph below .I like to see it where older fighters with a lot of fights even if there popping and skill Diminishing they still can pull off wins using there experience against younger more skillful opponents(example frank mir brock lesnar) .It will make it more interesting from my other graph knowing actually when your fighter is at his peak and when to sack then .Also this will manager incentive to fight there fighters instead of just leavening then in the gym .

 

 

http://s32.postimg.org/agw3fxa2t/graph_1.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://s31.postimg.org/ev94hife3/graph2.png

[Bwang]

It would be great if cardio didn't affect energy loss during the training week.

 

It'd be like their sleep quality has been upgraded.

[rjs2442]

It would be great if cardio didn't affect energy loss during the training week.

 

It'd be like their sleep quality has been upgraded.

This too, fantastic idea to allow for a full week of training no matter the level of conditioning (within reason of course) can't go buck nutty and spar every session for all 12

[edwardsfan]

7. "It makes no sense to have cardio effect training. You're just taking away the very diversity that you're trying to create in the first place. Because you're making it mandatory of sorts to have at least a moderately high level of cardio to ensure you train max number of sessions per week. Cardio should be considered as merely a fight stat and that even the most under conditioned fighter could still show up the gym each day."

 

Edwardsfan, when you're not being an irritating prick, you do say sensible things

I think this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. I don't think it will make any difference to how people allocate their physicals though.

 

It may not make any difference how people allocate their physicals. But it still needs to be a feasible part of the game. Tank Abbotts and Mike Tyson's need to exist in the game

 

It's time we divorce cardio from training energy. It's a simple fix to a simple problem. But it's never been anything worth talking about in the past since all fighters are elite across. But with a physical cap, now it is. #UnleashTheTank

 

 

Mike, as far as your sucking up. Keep it up. I like it. But don't look me in the eyes

[MMATycoon]

A fighter's cardio not affecting training wouldn't mean they don't lose any energy... it would just mean everyone lost the same amount of energy. To be honest, I'd be more in favour of it apply to some type of training but not others. I think it's silly for someone with 150 cardio to lose the same amount of energy from a full sparring session, as someone with 10 cardio. But punches or kicks, you could make more of an argument. It depends how you view the types of training and what you imagine the fighter is doing in that session. I need to think about it more / we need to talk about it a bit more to see what people want and what's actually realistic vs benefitial to the game.

 

In terms of experience being revamped, yes, I've wanted to do that for ages. Remind me once we're done with physicals though. This is starting to get a little overwhelming with all the different proposed changes.

[shortfuse122829]

A fighter's cardio not affecting training wouldn't mean they don't lose any energy... it would just mean everyone lost the same amount of energy. To be honest, I'd be more in favour of it apply to some type of training but not others. I think it's silly for someone with 150 cardio to lose the same amount of energy from a full sparring session, as someone with 10 cardio. But punches or kicks, you could make more of an argument. It depends how you view the types of training and what you imagine the fighter is doing in that session. I need to think about it more / we need to talk about it a bit more to see what people want and what's actually realistic vs benefitial to the game.

 

In terms of experience being revamped, yes, I've wanted to do that for ages. Remind me once we're done with physicals though. This is starting to get a little overwhelming with all the different proposed changes.

 

I will badger you to death if you try to leave off my escapes/finish change!!!!!

[MMATycoon]

I'm sure you will

[shortfuse122829]

I'm sure you will

 

Just making sure we're on the same wave length on that lolol. I will make Humors look like an altar boy

[edwardsfan]

A fighter's cardio not affecting training wouldn't mean they don't lose any energy... it would just mean everyone lost the same amount of energy. To be honest, I'd be more in favour of it apply to some type of training but not others. I think it's silly for someone with 150 cardio to lose the same amount of energy from a full sparring session, as someone with 10 cardio. But punches or kicks, you could make more of an argument. It depends how you view the types of training and what you imagine the fighter is doing in that session. I need to think about it more / we need to talk about it a bit more to see what people want and what's actually realistic vs benefitial to the game.

 

 

I understand the concept of realism vs beneficial to the game. I am brainstorming ways to make the feeble cardio a possibility with in the game. It currently is not as long as it's tied in with training.

 

 

The concept I have comes from Iracing.com. That's regarded by many as the greatest racing sim ever created.

 

In iracing, you can adjust the shocks on the car in a range from 1 to 32. 1 being softest. The concept they use is even if you set the shock to 1, it doesn't mean the shock doesn't have any resistance. It still works like a functional shock would. You are simply working with in a given theoretical common sense range.

 

That is how I see cardio in this game. I wouldn't view 1 as useless in the sense that you can't get off the couch. I view 1 as being useless in terms of being relative to a functional athlete.

[PBR]

 

Dean's an active member of the LGBT community. He's probably just PMSing over the Orlando shooting incident.

i thought about making a post looking for you to make sure you were okay just to mess with you -- lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as for cardio not affecting training something needs to show difference in who can train harder longer than others -- but i think this could be done with supps making a bigger or smaller impact depending on quality --- i just dont feel a fighter with competent cardio could train as much or as long as a fighter with elite cardio

[Rambo]

i thought about making a post looking for you to make sure you were okay just to mess with you -- lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as for cardio not affecting training something needs to show difference in who can train harder longer than others -- but i think this could be done with supps making a bigger or smaller impact depending on quality --- i just dont feel a fighter with competent cardio could train as much or as long as a fighter with elite cardio

 

 

A lot of us down here have been saying the same shit to our friends on fb and shit like that.

 

 

 

 

 

I think Remarkable across the board is a bit too low for a physical skill cap. I think Wonderful would be a bit more reasonable to a degree. Demetrious Johnson would be what? At least Sensational Agility, Exceptional Speed, Wonderful Flexibility, Remarkable Str, Elite cardio, Exceptional Balance ? Even if you knock a couple of those exceptionals down to wonderfuls, it's hard to argue that.

 

 

Are height / weight builds going to impact physicals at all or is it just a hard cap? There's a lot of variables here. Not really keen on the idea... but I already know, before these changes are even implemented, just like I knew how useless escapes would be before they were implemented (and changed ala instant-escapes), that the sprawl and brawl - punch technique no kicks - counter build will be OP, and wrestlers will be even more fucked than before.

[edwardsfan]

Also my comments were based on the thought process of a 70% physical cap. I'd have to re-do the math on what 78% is like. At 70% I was expecting we'd see a lot more specialized builds like in the example I gave a few pages back. Or even someone mentioned more recently perhaps forgoing flexibility and just don't throw head kicks. So I could've seen a build w/ like

 

Sensational agility

useless flex

sensational speed

wonderful strength

sensational cardio

sensational balance

 

 

This is truth. This will be the build that dominates. Flexibility will be neglected

 

I think the math is actually 702 points over 6 skills. Neglect a single skill (flexibility) and you've got 701/5=140.2 with 1 point left over for flexibility

 

Now how do you get around that?

[MichioKaku]

i thought about making a post looking for you to make sure you were okay just to mess with you -- lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as for cardio not affecting training something needs to show difference in who can train harder longer than others -- but i think this could be done with supps making a bigger or smaller impact depending on quality --- i just dont feel a fighter with competent cardio could train as much or as long as a fighter with elite cardio

I play a Soccer(I am an American) sim and the amount of stamina or cardio in that game goes up and down week to week depending on what % of training is devoted to it, 9% is a stable no up or down mark. Yes that is a bit over kill for a single fight perhaps. They do employ Sports Psychologists into the game that helps determine mood. I saw a suggestion for some surgeries. Perhaps a hospital or sports clinic in the future? Leave Cardio alone and perhaps a Sports Physiologist would help you not "adrenaline dump" as often and stay fresh through 5 rounds like DJ who could go 25 it seems like or if you don't visit one during the week or days before a fight it may have a negative effect(you would be at 100% energy so you aren't wasting training time but using those slots), less needed the more experienced you get leaving room to keep training as the game tries to take away your skill points or as you implement training is harder the more time you do it.

 

It could work in many different ways depending what is decided. Psychologists could even be added to the nutrition company changing up what they do a little. Maybe a fish oil supplement to keep you thinking gud.

 

I don't mind stopping training for a fight TBH. No one is out there training at 100% the week before for fear of injury and days before for press meetings but they still are keeping loose with light work outs. Stopping training so that I can train is a concept I don't get unless you are injured. Working out gives you more energy in life, not less. Training for a Marathon, you think I am not out every morning running with no rest? I get better and farther with more energy, not less.

 

Again a n00b's take on a what seems never ending discussion:)

[Rambo]

When escapes and transitions were implemented, we were allowed to reallocate skills, for better or worse. I feel like the same should be done for physicals to some degree or another. Especially if you got a guy that's sens - elite across the board.

 

If you're worried about cookie cutter builds, etc. you're gonna end up with that no matter what. right now the cookie cutter build is elite in every physical. no matter what you do, eventually, the masses will follow a particular pattern of most effectiveness.