Fight Engine Discussion

[GBK16]

I asked Mike before on Buzz about it and he replied with this

 

 

"Everyone will be chopped down to the new cap in one go. So the highest guys will come down to the cap, then everyone else below the highest guys comes down a gradually decreasing amount. it's then the same as the other cap in that you can train up X but the points will come off all the other physicals."

 

 

So from the looks of things, when you have your physicals after the cap is implemented, and if you are at the cap, if you train Weights for example, the points will be taken away from your other physicals and added to Strength. So basically if you want to improve say your Flexibility, Strength and Conditioning to higher levels, just train them and points will come away from the others and added. From this, it does mean you will lose points in each physical each time so might take a bit of time to get your ideal situation.

[Bwang]

Yeah that's gonna take a looong time to re-sort our physicals to how we want them. I'd probably prefer to be dropped below the max so I have space to train up what I want.

[shortfuse122829]

Also my comments were based on the thought process of a 70% physical cap. I'd have to re-do the math on what 78% is like. At 70% I was expecting we'd see a lot more specialized builds like in the example I gave a few pages back. Or even someone mentioned more recently perhaps forgoing flexibility and just don't throw head kicks. So I could've seen a build w/ like

 

Sensational agility

useless flex

sensational speed

wonderful strength

sensational cardio

sensational balance

 

 

Maybe max out your boxing, don't even bother w/ kicks and such. So if physicals turned into these really specialized builds in the future all of these bisping across physical builds will probably start to get phased out of the game as guys realize their builds need to be updated and these types of fighters aren't really any good anymore.

 

 

I will say that the options in build diversity is kinda interesting & I do like that aspect of it. I was never totally opposed to the change, just felt their were some concerns on how it would change/affect certain things & didn't really like that it was just being implemented w/o a proper discussion. Especially when Mike's knowledge of the engine hasn't always proven to be the greatest, so I rarely ever just assume that he's going to be right in how he sees things playing out because that's usually not the case.

 

I also hope Mike reconsiders the allocation. Is it pretty artificial? Absolutely. Is it any more artificial than him saying once your fighter reaches this skill point level he's no longer capable of learning more about fighting? Or any more artificial than him saying all your elite physicals you've spent 130+ sessions training is kinda dumb so now I'm just going to artificially cut them. Why is being artificial okay in some instances but not in instances that the managers actually would like it that way?? When I started building my fighters 60 + weeks ago I had a choice in how to build them & chose to build them for the current fight engine & which builds worked for that engine. If we're going to make changes that change the landscape of Tycoon I'm all for giving it a try, but why should my choice in how to build my fighter be removed from me just because you decided to make a change 60 weeks into their build?

[bjornmma1]

I asked Mike before on Buzz about it and he replied with this

 

 

"Everyone will be chopped down to the new cap in one go. So the highest guys will come down to the cap, then everyone else below the highest guys comes down a gradually decreasing amount. it's then the same as the other cap in that you can train up X but the points will come off all the other physicals."

 

 

So from the looks of things, when you have your physicals after the cap is implemented, and if you are at the cap, if you train Weights for example, the points will be taken away from your other physicals and added to Strength. So basically if you want to improve say your Flexibility, Strength and Conditioning to higher levels, just train them and points will come away from the others and added. From this, it does mean you will lose points in each physical each time so might take a bit of time to get your ideal situation.

 

 

So basically everyone who has been training physicals a lot lately has wasted their time or what?

[Wolf]

I thought the fighters would be dropped to the % they are at now. So if you are at 90% of the current cap you will be 90% of the new cap.

[bjornmma1]

In all honesty, I'm a bit scared to see what effect it will have on the fighters.

 

Basically, I really like the engine as it is at the moment and wouldn't like to see such a major change happen. I think a lot of us can agree that the engine is currently very good and that it allows a lot of different types of fighters to be succesfull.
Me personally, I don't see a need for change, certainly not such a big one.

[MMATycoon]

If my guy has max physicals now then after the points cut will he still have the new max physicals? So if I want to train up a particular physical after that I have to wait for the points to come off the other physicals?

Yes, they would have the new max physicals. Once you are at the cap, yes if you train up +2 points in e.g. flexibility, those 2 points would come off the other physicals.

[Bwang]

I'm scared to train physicals at all now. I have lots of almost there prospects. What's a rough timescale for the change happening?

[Bwang]

Yes, they would have the new max physicals. Once you are at the cap, yes if you train up +2 points in e.g. flexibility, those 2 points would come off the other physicals.

Would that happen at the same speed as just learning the individual skill? Ie the points coming off and adding on to other skills isn't any slower than it would be to just learn those skills.

[MMATycoon]

I'm scared to train physicals at all now. I have lots of almost there prospects. What's a rough timescale for the change happening?

If you're not fighting you might as well just train the non-physicals so you don't have to even think about it.

 

Timescale wise;

1. I'll only implement it for people who don't have a fight, so don't worry about booking a fight.

2. Once you have that fight it will then get applied to your fighter.

 

But general timeframe wise, it just depends how long it takes me to iron out. With the above 1-2 plan in place I would imagine most people would want it the sooner the better, so hopefully a couple of weeks. I wanna switch to the number of sessions trained rather than the age based slowing of training, so I can give people this extra year's worth of fast training, for having to take the hit.

[MMATycoon]

Would that happen at the same speed as just learning the individual skill? Ie the points coming off and adding on to other skills isn't any slower than it would be to just learn those skills.

I don't totally follow the question but....

 

if you train e.g. cardio, it would go up by the same amount whether you were at the cap or not. So simply being at a cap makes no difference to the speed of increase. The +2 is balanced out immediately (same training session) by the -2 spread across the other 5 physicals.

[Bwang]

I don't totally follow the question but....

 

if you train e.g. cardio, it would go up by the same amount whether you were at the cap or not. So simply being at a cap makes no difference to the speed of increase. The +2 is balanced out immediately (same training session) by the -2 spread across the other 5 physicals.

Yes thank you, that is what I was asking. Well deciphered!

[MMATycoon]

In all honesty, I'm a bit scared to see what effect it will have on the fighters.

 

Basically, I really like the engine as it is at the moment and wouldn't like to see such a major change happen. I think a lot of us can agree that the engine is currently very good and that it allows a lot of different types of fighters to be succesfull.

Me personally, I don't see a need for change, certainly not such a big one.

 

I'm glad you think the engine is very good at the moment. It only got to that stage by changing stuff though

 

If the engine works on the island and off the island, then there is no reason this would cause any problems. Physicals are one of the smaller parts of the equations, so I don't think it will be a big deal at all. The major change is just the decrease in wasted time for training up fighters.

[shortfuse122829]

Are escapes being put under finish/control in the hierarchy in this change or is that now being scrapped in favor of these physicals changes? Or is that something you're going to get to after these physicals changes? Because that's the only change throughout this whole thread that I actually have any real interest in seeing take place. I'll accept whatever other changes are implemented but I'm still really pulling for that one to be made

[MMATycoon]

Are escapes being put under finish/control in the hierarchy in this change or is that now being scrapped in favor of these physicals changes? Or is that something you're going to get to after these physicals changes? Because that's the only change throughout this whole thread that I actually have any real interest in seeing take place. I'll accept whatever other changes are implemented but I'm still really pulling for that one to be made

They're unrelated so don't need to be done at the same time but I will look at that after.

[shortfuse122829]

Well obviously they're unrelated. I'm just trying to make sure that change isn't skipped over, this thread initially started off w/ you asking about people wanting changes to the ground game & peoples opinions. We spent the first several pages coming up w/ solutions to fix that problem before you got it in your head this physicals change is something you wanted to do. I'm all cool w/ that and you prioritizing physicals over that if you feel it's a more important change. I'm just trying to make sure that it isn't lost in the shuffle while you just randomly decide to implement other shit that wasn't even discussed all that much until more recently

[MMATycoon]

I know you know they're unrelated.... Let's rephrase it as "because they are unrelated, I'm not going to try and do them at the same time." I wasn't trying to be defensive.

[shortfuse122829]

I know you know they're unrelated.... Let's rephrase it as "because they are unrelated, I'm not going to try and do them at the same time." I wasn't trying to be defensive.

 

Anyway we'd be able to get a period of time where we can release fighters w/ no VIP costs. I'm thinking I may just take this opportunity to overhaul my roster for the most part because of the changes being implemented & it'd be nice to not have to wait 15 days to cut a guy or have to spend a crazy amount of money on VIP to do a mass release

[MMATycoon]

 

Anyway we'd be able to get a period of time where we can release fighters w/ no VIP costs. I'm thinking I may just take this opportunity to overhaul my roster for the most part because of the changes being implemented & it'd be nice to not have to wait 15 days to cut a guy or have to spend a crazy amount of money on VIP to do a mass release

 

I don't see why not.

[shortfuse122829]

Okay I have another question that will probably determine how I do my builds moving forward. Does the level of your cardio directly impact the amount of energy that you gain back during the fight?

 

I'm pretty sure that you've stated before that when your fighters are not throwing a strike & your opponent is throwing a strikes and missing, that you re-gain energy during those down periods. But that the higher counter you are, the less energy you'll gain back on those down periods because you're trying to counter every miss which expends energy.

 

So do you gain back more energy on those down times w/ elite cardio than you would if you only had wonderful cardio?

[edwardsfan]

 

I'm happy to talk it through if people want to look at some revisions. I think everyone's going to just max their cardio anyway, which would make it a bit redundant.

 

It makes no sense to have cardio effect training. You're just taking away the very diversity that you're trying to create in the first place. Because you're making it mandatory of sorts to have at least a moderately high level of cardio to ensure you train max number of sessions per week.

 

Cardio should be considered as merely a fight stat and that even the most under conditioned fighter could still show up the gym each day.

 

Just remove cardio level from training altogether and have each session take away energy based on what you're training. Ex: Weights takes more than yoga

 

This also works out well for new players that create fighters and don't put points on cardio and then find themselves drained after the first day and not sure why.

 

All it is is a trap. And why? What benefit to the game does it really give? If you want ppl to have to have a minimum of 50 points in cardio to train consistently, then why even give the opportunity to have less than 50? Do you see the logic in this? Obviously ppl are going to want to train regularly.

 

 

It's an unnecessary hinderence built into the game. I can't see how removing it would do anything other than make the game better

[edwardsfan]

While I'm at it I never understood why yoga couldn't give energy gain rather than energy loss.

 

A training session could give a standard 1% energy loss. Yoga a 2.5% energy gain and no training could give 5% energy gain.

 

But for heaven sakes, please disconnect cardio from training energy. It only hurts the diversity of the game.

[edwardsfan]

Mike you even said it yourself. If you are going to require people to have at least remarkable cardio then why even have the option to have less than remarkable. It's redundant to have less then remarkable as an option if it brings no value.

 

And as long as cardio is bound to training energy then it doesn't bring any value

[Guest]

With the caps lowered physically why not bring in hospitals to mitigate the damage? You could start off simply with 3 levels of treatments... 3 levels of surgery then expand down the road.

[madbob]

I wanna switch to the number of sessions trained rather than the age based slowing of training, so I can give people this extra year's worth of fast training, for having to take the hit.

 

So if i understood it right the learning speed goes slower as the number of sessions trained in one skill get higher right?

 

If this is right two questions

 

1. So lets say for argument sake i create a skill with 110 point in it. The skill will train as fast as the skill where i put 1 point in, since on the first creation day, neither of the skill has been trained yet. Is that about right?

 

2. more like a thought of thinking it to the end of things So if the fighter is near the cap and you train a skill and take points away from another skill and lets say this skill depops two times ahh let me make this with numbers

 

soo Kicks is at Elite with 110 Session of Training (just an example to get the point across) now the skill depops 2 times and i wanna get it back up again. Will the learning speed still get slower, because i am adding to the Sessions trained?

 

 

And since you have brought up learning now. what are you thoughts on Duphus idea? I think this has potential.

 

 

1. Primes should be a collective skill of your related secondary skills. This means you can't be elite in BJJ if you have no subs and similar on M/T if you have no elbow's/knee's and wrestling if you have no TD or GnP.

 

 

 

A. That in it's self will stop at lot of things people complain about, you can't have elite wrestling on a brawl and sprawl guy to help defend takedowns because you can't be elite wrestling without TD's and GnP and all of it's associated secondaries. it's gonna be hard to stop TD's if you don't have them or GnP just do to the wrestling prime. Say if you have only elite TDD and elite Grap D like many sprawl and brawl stand up guys do, then your only gonna be exceptional in the wrestling prime, How far will that go in allowing actual grapplers to get TD's more often?

 

 

 

B. It would make match up much more easy for orgs as you have a better idea of there skills if the secondary skills sets the prime value.

 

 

 

C. Under this system, Sparring can't add points to your prime directly only to all associated secondaries sort of like it does now but no added points to the prime. Your prime will be determined by that secondaries (Obviously, this would need to be decided about and I have no idea or claim to know what levels of secs total should be what level of prime)

 

 

 

D We all know being elite in a prime purely for a defensive purpose is an advantage and this would stop that.