Alfred Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 What would happen if everything else remained the same (skill cap, percentage that attributes effect certain actions etc) but skills were increased to say 20 instead of 15++ Would fighter builds start to look a little more realistic? Would it completely break the game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeF Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 You would be seeing even more one-dimensional fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsquirrel Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 So 50% would be at 10 instead of at 7,5. That would be changing the scales, but also mean more time to train skills to comparable levels as before and practically lowering the total skill cap. Physicals would suddenly be more value for training time. More one-dimensional fighters sounds likely yes. If the goal is more realistic fighter builds I don't think adjusting skill caps is the way to get there. It likely takes fight engine changes to support smarter fighters and more complex game-plans. If I was the game designer I would first profile some IRL fighters in tycoon stats, then think about how to make their styles work in the fight engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeF Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 If you want realistic game engine it needs just two general tweaks: - nerf the instant escapes; - increase the number of actions on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLarry Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Were n't instant escapes nerfed a while back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Were n't instant escapes nerfed a while back? No, just takedown effectiveness was buffed lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLarry Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 No, just takedown effectiveness was buffed lol Fight Engine Changes 22nd Nov Hi all. I have made a couple of changes to the fight engine related to escapes and takedowns. I have made takedowns slightly more effective and escapes from guard, guard bottom and side slightly less effective. We're talking in the 5-10% range so nothing crazy to panic about; I'm just keen to improve the balance between standup and ground fighters. Unless it s been a ruse all along 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Fight Engine Changes 22nd Nov Hi all. I have made a couple of changes to the fight engine related to escapes and takedowns. I have made takedowns slightly more effective and escapes from guard, guard bottom and side slightly less effective. We're talking in the 5-10% range so nothing crazy to panic about; I'm just keen to improve the balance between standup and ground fighters. Unless it s been a ruse all along They're still as prevalent as ever, at least that's how people feel about it Happened a ton in this fight of mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeF Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Fight Engine Changes 22nd Nov Hi all. I have made a couple of changes to the fight engine related to escapes and takedowns. I have made takedowns slightly more effective and escapes from guard, guard bottom and side slightly less effective. We're talking in the 5-10% range so nothing crazy to panic about; I'm just keen to improve the balance between standup and ground fighters. Unless it s been a ruse all along And where does it say that instant escapes got nerfed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLarry Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 And where does it say that instant escapes got nerfed? Damn you are right, it s not about instant escapes at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itakebrides Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 I think maybe cutting the skill cap or better yet putting a random hiddens caps on what skill you develop to elite would make the game more realistic .I dont care how much u train most fighters aint going to be elite puncher clincher etc etc .There going to be naturally better at one thing then another It would also make the game more fun and u have to focus on what your fighter is doing in training .If your guy get stuck at wondeful for a month u going to have to change his training and build till u figure out his best skills . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularJohn Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 They're still as prevalent as ever, at least that's how people feel about it Happened a ton in this fight of mine it's only a 5-10% change. you would have to analyze data from thousands of fights to tell for sure what effect it has on the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 In MMA fights you see "instant-escapes" all the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeF Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 In MMA fights you see "instant-escapes" all the time. Also you see grappling pretty often in MMA fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLarry Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 In MMA fights you see "instant-escapes" all the time. 'all the time' is just an overstatement here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 'all the time' is just an overstatement here It happens enough. Wouldn't be unusual to see it happen multiple fights in a row. When both of the fighters who are "elite" compete, and one lands a takedown, it's not unusual to see the dude get up right away. It happens a lot and often both fighters throw grappling out the window and stand. Especially at the lighter weight classes. If you're elite at escapes... instant escapes should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted May 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 It happens enough. Wouldn't be unusual to see it happen multiple fights in a row. When both of the fighters who are "elite" compete, and one lands a takedown, it's not unusual to see the dude get up right away. It happens a lot and often both fighters throw grappling out the window and stand. Especially at the lighter weight classes. If you're elite at escapes... instant escapes should work. I agree. It's one of the most disappointing evolutions of MMA in my opinion. Zero incentive for staying on the ground but then I blame the judges and referees and mostly the rules for that. What you don't see at the top level however is fighters who are sensational in boxing and muay thai and also both wrestling and BJJ. I can't think of a single fighter in the history of the sport who could be considered almost elite in all aspects of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 I agree. It's one of the most disappointing evolutions of MMA in my opinion. Zero incentive for staying on the ground but then I blame the judges and referees and mostly the rules for that. What you don't see at the top level however is fighters who are sensational in boxing and muay thai and also both wrestling and BJJ. I can't think of a single fighter in the history of the sport who could be considered almost elite in all aspects of the game This right here is what I am talking about. This is why I advocate for lowering the skill cap so that you won't see the Elite/Elite/Elite/Black anymore. No real world fighter looks like that. Even if it was a soft cap (it gets significantly harder to go from say Exceptional to Sensational and harder still to go from Sensational to Elite, and again a big step up to go from 140 to 150), I believe it would make for more diverse fighter builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 I do, however, also feel that there should be a third training session per day to make getting your fighter's into fighting form faster a reality. The slow pace of the game is often cited as a reason for players leaving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timqwe Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 It happens enough. Wouldn't be unusual to see it happen multiple fights in a row. When both of the fighters who are "elite" compete, and one lands a takedown, it's not unusual to see the dude get up right away. It happens a lot and often both fighters throw grappling out the window and stand. Especially at the lighter weight classes. If you're elite at escapes... instant escapes should work. Robbie Lawler comes to mind. Not a great grappler, but very good at keeping guard and getting up from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLarry Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 It happens enough. Wouldn't be unusual to see it happen multiple fights in a row. When both of the fighters who are "elite" compete, and one lands a takedown, it's not unusual to see the dude get up right away. It happens a lot and often both fighters throw grappling out the window and stand. Especially at the lighter weight classes. If you're elite at escapes... instant escapes should work. we are talking about the frequency of 'instant escapes' not removing them, it s almost always with elite escape here, it just makes the grappling under-powered a bit, so nerfing the instant escapes actually sounds like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularJohn Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 I can't think of a single fighter in the history of the sport who could be considered almost elite in all aspects of the game There has never been a single fighter in the history of MMA who could be considered elite at muay thai alone. I once made a thread arguing about the very same point you're making but guys kind of convinced me that, the way the game engine works, then you would see fighters become Wonderful/Wonderful/Wonderful/Brown belt and it would all ammount to the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted May 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 There has never been a single fighter in the history of MMA who could be considered elite at muay thai alone. I once made a thread arguing about the very same point you're making but guys kind of convinced me that, the way the game engine works, then you would see fighters become Wonderful/Wonderful/Wonderful/Brown belt and it would all ammount to the same. This is what I don't understand though. How could it? I mean if you dropped it even further so the most well rounded you could be was superb/superb/superb/purple wouldn't you at least then see more diverse fighter builds and a constant changing meta? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularJohn Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 This is what I don't understand though. How could it? I mean if you dropped it even further so the most well rounded you could be was superb/superb/superb/purple wouldn't you at least then see more diverse fighter builds and a constant changing meta? You would certainly see more diverse builds but I guess the most effective ones and the ones fighting at elite levels would be the well rounded ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 If you want realistic game engine it needs just two general tweaks: - nerf the instant escapes; - increase the number of actions on the ground. OK call me silly, but I'm not actually sure what you mean by Instant escapes. Are you talking about when a fighter gets taken down and the very next move, he escapes and is back to his feet? Or are you talking about the line that says, Fighter A changes levels and looks for a double leg takedown. Fighter B tries to avoid it but Fighter A manages to keep hold of a leg and drag Fighter B to the ground. Fighter B escapes though and pops straight back up to his feet. Because I have always thought that, that line was just indicating that the takedown failed and it was just cool fluff text. Which, BTW that sort of thing does actually happen all the time in MMA fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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