Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 so let me get this straight. You actually WANT money to be useless? even more so than it already is? The ONLY thing money is good for is training. the game is young. that will change. gotta think about it longterm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 so let me get this straight. You actually WANT money to be useless? even more so than it already is? The ONLY thing money is good for is training. Not certain who this is directed at, but if it's at me. I really don't care. I'm fine with the way things are. But given all the zany fixes that have been thrown out, I just brought up the old one that actually deals with the economic flaw of people being able to intentionally run a massively failing business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 the only problem that i can see with this solution is it might be a give away to whether you have 140's vs 150's. that would have to be hashed out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I am going to have to agree with Matty here. You guys are all being shortsighted on what this game is meant to be. This isnt meant to be a create a fighter and 3-6 months later he dominates the tycoon world. This game is meant to be played for years. For this game to be as successful as it can be it needs have tiers of fighters. You will have the new fighters 0-10 fights or so Mid tier 11-20 fights and the top tier of guys with 20-30+ fights. The game is not meant for everyone to be equal right off the bat. We need to help Mike come up with new ideas for where the money can be wasted on or spent on. Currently there is nothing to do with all the money you can make. If we fix the economy it might balance out a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougSupreme Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 the game is young. that will change. gotta think about it longterm OK think about it longterm. You need to fix the cause, not the symptom. Don't just take an aspirin to treat a strep infection. Take an antibiotic to eliminate the source. You are focusing on the symptoms of your illness. The cause is the fact that money has NO USE other than for training. Fix that, and you might like what you see. Right now, there are no choices to be made. All there is to do is find the best gym you can, train, take supps, and buy clothes. Make the economy work, and the gym "problem" will fix itself. So will the Supp "problem", the clothing "problem" and the Org "problem. The root cause is that money is for the most part USELESS. Rodney Dangerfield said it best. "I grew up so poor, if I hadn't been born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with" Problem is, right now there's not much to play with monetarily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougSupreme Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I am going to have to agree with Matty here. You guys are all being shortsighted on what this game is meant to be. This isnt meant to be a create a fighter and 3-6 months later he dominates the tycoon world. This game is meant to be played for years. For this game to be as successful as it can be it needs have tiers of fighters. You will have the new fighters 0-10 fights or so Mid tier 11-20 fights and the top tier of guys with 20-30+ fights. The game is not meant for everyone to be equal right off the bat. We need to help Mike come up with new ideas for where the money can be wasted on or spent on. Currently there is nothing to do with all the money you can make. If we fix the economy it might balance out a little better. ^^^ THIS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backelie Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 The game is not meant for everyone to be equal right off the bat. And, no one has EVER suggested it should be. Despite that this "argument" comes up EVERY single time someone suggests that the game could be made more fair by improving a broken part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 the only problem that i can see with this solution is it might be a give away to whether you have 140's vs 150's. that would have to be hashed out It would only give away the true nature of the coaches if the gym owner so chose, since the computer set minimum capacity for a gym with 140s would be lower than a gym with 150s. Obviously if you hire 140s and want to act like they are 150s, just set your gym's capacity higher than the bare minimum required by the formula. OK think about it longterm. You need to fix the cause, not the symptom. Don't just take an aspirin to treat a strep infection. Take an antibiotic to eliminate the source. You are focusing on the symptoms of your illness. The cause is the fact that money has NO USE other than for training. Fix that, and you might like what you see. Right now, there are no choices to be made. All there is to do is find the best gym you can, train, take supps, and buy clothes. Make the economy work, and the gym "problem" will fix itself. So will the Supp "problem", the clothing "problem" and the Org "problem. The root cause is that money is for the most part USELESS. Rodney Dangerfield said it best. "I grew up so poor, if I hadn't been born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with" Problem is, right now there's not much to play with monetarily I'd disagree that requiring that companies be set-up to run in a way that is economically feasible is only getting at the symptoms. It doesn't cure all the economic problems in the game, but it is fundamentally working on fixing one economic problem in the game. In fact, as long as the game permits people to intentionally run gyms (or any company) at massive losses, the economy will always be broken. Adding more things to spend money on won't cause this problem to go away, although it may become something that fewer people chose to do because they want to spend their money elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It would only give away the true nature of the coaches if the gym owner so chose, since the computer set minimum capacity for a gym with 140s would be lower than a gym with 150s. Obviously if you hire 140s and want to act like they are 150s, just set your gym's capacity higher than the bare minimum required by the formula. I'd disagree that requiring that companies be set-up to run in a way that is economically feasible is only getting at the symptoms. It doesn't cure all the economic problems in the game, but it is fundamentally working on fixing one economic problem in the game. In fact, as long as the game permits people to intentionally run gyms (or any company) at massive losses, the economy will always be broken. Adding more things to spend money on won't cause this problem to go away, although it may become something that fewer people chose to do because they want to spend their money elsewhere. Then all we need to do is find something to spend money on that is better than private training. Since such a thing doesnt exist then why dont we set up something to where fighters can BUY private training sessions at normal gyms? Then we wouldnt even NEED private gyms. Better fighters/managers deserve better training. This would also divert some of the masses of cash away from org owners and down to the fighters. Who would spend their cash on private training at LEGIT gyms and making its way into the pockets of the least profitable business owners (and really the true backbone of the game, especially in smaller cities) the gym owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougSupreme Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It would only give away the true nature of the coaches if the gym owner so chose, since the computer set minimum capacity for a gym with 140s would be lower than a gym with 150s. Obviously if you hire 140s and want to act like they are 150s, just set your gym's capacity higher than the bare minimum required by the formula. I'd disagree that requiring that companies be set-up to run in a way that is economically feasible is only getting at the symptoms. It doesn't cure all the economic problems in the game, but it is fundamentally working on fixing one economic problem in the game. In fact, as long as the game permits people to intentionally run gyms (or any company) at massive losses, the economy will always be broken. Adding more things to spend money on won't cause this problem to go away, although it may become something that fewer people chose to do because they want to spend their money elsewhere. companies run at a loss all the time in the real world. for as much as 5 years (which would be the equivalent of 60 weeks of game time) Then the IRS wants you to show a profit or close your doors. I'm sure you run your fighters at a loss. I know I do. I use my fighters with big contracts to help support my fighters that can't make ends meet. why should something be allowed in one situation but not another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeikkoK Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I am going to have to agree with Matty here. You guys are all being shortsighted on what this game is meant to be. This isnt meant to be a create a fighter and 3-6 months later he dominates the tycoon world. This game is meant to be played for years. For this game to be as successful as it can be it needs have tiers of fighters. You will have the new fighters 0-10 fights or so Mid tier 11-20 fights and the top tier of guys with 20-30+ fights. The game is not meant for everyone to be equal right off the bat. We need to help Mike come up with new ideas for where the money can be wasted on or spent on. Currently there is nothing to do with all the money you can make. If we fix the economy it might balance out a little better. Good post. It did some time to realise that this is not the game you play like month and then move on. If you want to succeed, you'll have to play this years. And that's the best part of this game. There's always more to accomplish. Of course many people (me) doesn't have patience or time for that kind of long experience, but it doesn't matter, this gives much nice things even when taken on smaller bites. If everyone could be p4p champions after three months, this game would become boring much faster. But who knows, maybe the retirement age is too old, if somebody trains some guy till his 28, he will crush everything. But only for while... Economy has flaws, and probably many other things too, game is still young and those things will probably evolve much more. That said, I still agree with the Alec's idea, at least partially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Then all we need to do is find something to spend money on that is better than private training. Since such a thing doesnt exist then why dont we set up something to where fighters can BUY private training sessions at normal gyms? Then we wouldnt even NEED private gyms. Better fighters/managers deserve better training. This would also divert some of the masses of cash away from org owners and down to the fighters. Who would spend their cash on private training at LEGIT gyms and making its way into the pockets of the least profitable business owners (and really the true backbone of the game, especially in smaller cities) the gym owners. now see. in my opinion i like this post. its a good example of a few of the things that could be introduced into the game once everything is corrected. but it seems now that everyone is so bent out of shape that theres a lot of money for ppl and nothing to spend it on but all that can ever gets done is trying to fix loopholes and theres no time to introduce new fun stuff into the game that all that money could be used on. i think rich fighters getting to take there hard earned money to purchase better training is a fabulous idea. but why would that be introduced until private gyms are took care of? and i fail to miss the point of why older players need to get better training to stay ahead of newer players? maybe to get farther ahead of newer players. but i dont see where equal oppurtunity training would all of the sudden start shortening the gap between new and old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It would only give away the true nature of the coaches if the gym owner so chose, since the computer set minimum capacity for a gym with 140s would be lower than a gym with 150s. Obviously if you hire 140s and want to act like they are 150s, just set your gym's capacity higher than the bare minimum required by the formula. good point. that would work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I am going to have to agree with Matty here. You guys are all being shortsighted on what this game is meant to be. This isnt meant to be a create a fighter and 3-6 months later he dominates the tycoon world. This game is meant to be played for years. For this game to be as successful as it can be it needs have tiers of fighters. You will have the new fighters 0-10 fights or so Mid tier 11-20 fights and the top tier of guys with 20-30+ fights. The game is not meant for everyone to be equal right off the bat. i respectfully disagree a fighter id of 30k will always be better than a fighter id of 60k. especially if there is equal training offered for everyone. its when sketchy gyms come into play that the gap between new and old is shortened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 i respectfully disagree a fighter id of 30k will always be better than a fighter id of 60k. especially if there is equal training offered for everyone. its when sketchy gyms come into play that the gap between new and old is shortened That's just silly. Of course that's not true. I have fighters with TWO DIGIT ID numbers who SUCK. There are so many other factors than fighter creation date it's ridiculous. You don't even have to get complicated about it, but fighter age (18-22) creation, learning ability, quality of gym and frequency of fights all impact how a fighter develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 That's just silly. Of course that's not true. I have fighters with TWO DIGIT ID numbers who SUCK. There are so many other factors than fighter creation date it's ridiculous. You don't even have to get complicated about it, but fighter age (18-22) creation, learning ability, quality of gym and frequency of fights all impact how a fighter develops. i understaned that theres other factors but i was talking about from a training standpoint specifically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I've been thinking about this for some time now and wanted to run this by you guys.... How about this as a solution.. Make the trainers better, sort of... As the system is now, the training gets worse when there is more then one fighter training under a coach... How about changing that, so the training won't start getting worse until there's 5 people training with the coach. 6 people training would be equivalent to a 2 person session today, 7 people would be equivalent to a 3 person session today and so on... you get the point. Why do I wanna do this... Well, it removes the point in having these small private gyms running at a deficit and it makes it easier to actually make a good business out of a gym, while still enabling people to get the same quality training that they do today. The actual numbers might need a tweak and coach prices should probably be raised a little as well, to compensate for the raise in quality of the coaches. The 600$ weekly fee would also stay the same. Other then a little less realism, I can't seem to find any major flaws in this idea, but I'm sure some of you are on the ready to shoot it down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I've been thinking about this for some time now and wanted to run this by you guys.... How about this as a solution.. Make the trainers better, sort of... As the system is now, the training gets worse when there is more then one fighter training under a coach... How about changing that, so the training won't start getting worse until there's 5 people training with the coach. 6 people training would be equivalent to a 2 person session today, 7 people would be equivalent to a 3 person session today and so on... you get the point. Why do I wanna do this... Well, it removes the point in having these small private gyms running at a deficit and it makes it easier to actually make a good business out of a gym, while still enabling people to get the same quality training that they do today. The actual numbers might need a tweak and coach prices should probably be raised a little as well, to compensate for the raise in quality of the coaches. The 600$ weekly fee would also stay the same. Other then a little less realism, I can't seem to find any major flaws in this idea, but I'm sure some of you are on the ready to shoot it down... Ya know, that's so crazy it just might work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 i respectfully disagree a fighter id of 30k will always be better than a fighter id of 60k. especially if there is equal training offered for everyone. its when sketchy gyms come into play that the gap between new and old is shortened lol...u gonna argue this point with one of the guys that damn near invented the fukn game? u really are retarded...*shakes head and walks away*... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I've been thinking about this for some time now and wanted to run this by you guys.... How about this as a solution.. Make the trainers better, sort of... As the system is now, the training gets worse when there is more then one fighter training under a coach... How about changing that, so the training won't start getting worse until there's 5 people training with the coach. 6 people training would be equivalent to a 2 person session today, 7 people would be equivalent to a 3 person session today and so on... you get the point. Why do I wanna do this... Well, it removes the point in having these small private gyms running at a deficit and it makes it easier to actually make a good business out of a gym, while still enabling people to get the same quality training that they do today. The actual numbers might need a tweak and coach prices should probably be raised a little as well, to compensate for the raise in quality of the coaches. The 600$ weekly fee would also stay the same. Other then a little less realism, I can't seem to find any major flaws in this idea, but I'm sure some of you are on the ready to shoot it down... This is a genuinely inventive idea and would neatly solve a lot of problems. I can't think of a thing wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backelie Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I like it too. I think it might be enough with a simple nerf so that a 1on1 or 2on1 is no better than 3on1 is today rather than letting 5on1 be as good as 1on1 is today, since training is almost too fast already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 +1 with all the feeling of unfairness in the community, it would be acceptable for me to make 1on1 training just as bad as 3on1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 The suggestion isn't a nerf to reduction to 1 on 1, but an improvement to 5 on 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 As I said, the numbers would need a tweak, it was just a presentation of the idea.. 3 on 1 is probably better then the 5 on 1 that I suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyBlayze Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I've been thinking about this for some time now and wanted to run this by you guys.... How about this as a solution.. Make the trainers better, sort of... As the system is now, the training gets worse when there is more then one fighter training under a coach... How about changing that, so the training won't start getting worse until there's 5 people training with the coach. 6 people training would be equivalent to a 2 person session today, 7 people would be equivalent to a 3 person session today and so on... you get the point. Why do I wanna do this... Well, it removes the point in having these small private gyms running at a deficit and it makes it easier to actually make a good business out of a gym, while still enabling people to get the same quality training that they do today. The actual numbers might need a tweak and coach prices should probably be raised a little as well, to compensate for the raise in quality of the coaches. The 600$ weekly fee would also stay the same. Other then a little less realism, I can't seem to find any major flaws in this idea, but I'm sure some of you are on the ready to shoot it down... Can you expand upon this a bit? I'm not sure I understand. Doesn't this just make it easier/cheaper to have a private gym? Now, instead of hiring 5 coaches at whatever 5 coaches costs, someone could hire 1 coach, and get the same training for 5 fighters. I'll guess (since I'm not sure I fully understand) that the theory here is that most elite public gyms don't have more than 5 fighters per coach session, so there will be no extra benefits to having a private gym over being in an elite public gym. If that is the case, then I'm not sure this is the correct fix for what some people deem to be the problem. First, under this scenario, it would still be more beneficial to have a private gym because then you can control who is in the training session, and you don't have to worry about a Useless Puncher ruining your Punching training, for example. Plus, now its a LOT cheaper to run a private gym. Next, this really doesn't do anything to fix the problem some people have expressed with allowing companies to run at a loss for long periods of time. I don't see poor company management as a problem that needs fixing because eventually you'll just lose VIP if you lose money, but it has been stated previously. This also ties into the economy (which I still think is the root of the problem). Lastly, this will increase the speed of training for a large majority of the population - something which I think Mike has stated he is not in favor of. IMO, fighters already learn a bit fast - not too many people in the world go from no BJJ knowledge to being a black belt in a year. If practically everyone in the game is training with what is comparable to 1on1 with an Elite coach, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that we'll have Double Elite fighters with all associated secondaries Elite in short order. I would think, under this proposal, that the effectiveness of training, or coaches, would need to drop significantly here to equal out. And, Maui, despite the perceived tone of your sign-off there, I don't think anyone is trying to "shoot down" your idea or bash you or it. The fact is, when you have a "problem" - whether in MMATycoon, in any software application, in real life, anything - it is often easy to design what I'll refer to as a "quick fix" - a solution that, on the surface, solves the obvious problem at hand, but, in reality, doesn't solve much. I think there is some change required here, and not a small one either - so if Mike is going to spend a good deal of time and effort on this, we need to make sure that the fix improves the game AND solves the problem. For this reason, any suggestion for improvement will, and SHOULD, receive some sort of community review - surely none of us are perfect enough to develop a perfect solution all by ourselves. I still contend that the economy is the root of everyone's issue with private gyms, and no matter what fix we can develop, until we find a way to fix the economy, the fighters/managers with the most money(which happens to be an abundance of money due to the economy) will continue to be able to stay one step ahead of everyone else (and I don't actually think that's bad - its kinda deserved). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.