ArtieBanks Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Oddly enough despite the failed takedowns & failed punches (not taking a jab btw) Neckbreaker was the one who had more energy left at the end of the fight Could anyone explain that? He wasn't very aggressive, he doesn't cut weight, the fight had at least one round worth of action on the ground, due to the weight disparity your boy hits like a feather duster and takedowns don't sap energy the way you think it does - especially when on the counter. Realistically in a five round fight you should have zero energy at the end, your boy probably ran out right at the end otherwise flavour text would have indicated at your fighter being tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 In my personal experience, 10-15 pounds in weigh difference hardly has any difference at all unless one is cutting all that weight and the other isn't. Now 20+ lbs and I have noticed a definite advantage to the lighter fighter that only grows more substantial as the weight gap is increased. The open weight tournaments where the 155 lbs fighters dominating the tourneys has happened on at least 2 occasions that I am familiar with and I know there's many, many more examples out there. People complaining about a fighter being 128 or something in a 135 lbs division are just (imo mind you) making themselves crazy by looking for disadvantages that aren't really there... at least not outright noticeably. under 15 lbs, most of the time it's just gold ol RNG fucking you over (over sliders). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsquirrel Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 My guy did cut 5lbs so from walking around weight we had a 29lbs difference. I wanted to try and use that for a ko once energy was low, partially as a way to test the weight difference effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 My guy did cut 5lbs so from walking around weight we had a 29lbs difference. I wanted to try and use that for a ko once energy was low, partially as a way to test the weight difference effects. Other than height advantage you were a substantial striking disadvantage. It'll take a K1 striker to finish him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 In my personal experience, 10-15 pounds in weigh difference hardly has any difference at all unless one is cutting all that weight and the other isn't. Now 20+ lbs and I have noticed a definite advantage to the lighter fighter that only grows more substantial as the weight gap is increased. The open weight tournaments where the 155 lbs fighters dominating the tourneys has happened on at least 2 occasions that I am familiar with and I know there's many, many more examples out there. People complaining about a fighter being 128 or something in a 135 lbs division are just (imo mind you) making themselves crazy by looking for disadvantages that aren't really there... at least not outright noticeably. under 15 lbs, most of the time it's just gold ol RNG fucking you over (over sliders). The only reason "the speed glitch" is considered a viable strategy is because anybody could use it and rack up the wins. However it is a strategy that could be easily countered. Taller strikers are more accurate in the standup game. So, if it is an underweight short striker vs a tall wrestle boxer, the tall wrestle boxer will have the striking accuracy advantage and just take the fight into the clinch, gas him out, and then knock him out. Being underweight is a good strategy to use, until it isn't, when your fighter has less than 10% energy from all the knees & body shots. The counter punching alone from the lack of energy and the accurate striking could win the match in that hypothetical scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur.Camara Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 The only reason "the speed glitch" is considered a viable strategy is because anybody could use it and rack up the wins. However it is a strategy that could be easily countered. Taller strikers are more accurate in the standup game. So, if it is an underweight short striker vs a tall wrestle boxer, the tall wrestle boxer will have the striking accuracy advantage and just take the fight into the clinch, gas him out, and then knock him out. Being underweight is a good strategy to use, until it isn't, when your fighter has less than 10% energy from all the knees & body shots. The counter punching alone from the lack of energy and the accurate striking could win the match in that hypothetical scenario. Well no matter what this whole theory gets debunked (or confirmed) tomorrow as Fart Master and his greatest student got to war on the End of Season Tourney at the Island: http://www.mmatycoon.com/scoutfight.php?fida=363510&fidb=360750 This should be a fight for the ages, and, as it`s already tradition Grumpy is pretty much the only manager that can beat me so it was now or in the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 The only reason "the speed glitch" is considered a viable strategy is because anybody could use it and rack up the wins. However it is a strategy that could be easily countered. Taller strikers are more accurate in the standup game. So, if it is an underweight short striker vs a tall wrestle boxer, the tall wrestle boxer will have the striking accuracy advantage and just take the fight into the clinch, gas him out, and then knock him out. Being underweight is a good strategy to use, until it isn't, when your fighter has less than 10% energy from all the knees & body shots. The counter punching alone from the lack of energy and the accurate striking could win the match in that hypothetical scenario. Interesting info, gotta check this out with close matched primaries 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 Well no matter what this whole theory gets debunked (or confirmed) tomorrow as Fart Master and his greatest student got to war on the End of Season Tourney at the Island: http://www.mmatycoon.com/scoutfight.php?fida=363510&fidb=360750 This should be a fight for the ages, and, as it`s already tradition Grumpy is pretty much the only manager that can beat me so it was now or in the finals. . If I had Grumpy's fighter I would go 100% SHIG and 100% damage and 80% takedowns predictions on your bjj brown belt to make sure it doesn't go to the ground . Good luck in your fight though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur.Camara Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 . If I had Grumpy's fighter I would go 100% SHIG and 100% damage and 80% takedowns predictions on your bjj brown belt to make sure it doesn't go to the ground . Good luck in your fight though. lol Grumpy and I don`t do SHIG But if anyone can counter my moves it is obviously my mentor. We shall see how it goes. Wish this was the finale though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 The only reason "the speed glitch" is considered a viable strategy is because anybody could use it and rack up the wins. However it is a strategy that could be easily countered. Taller strikers are more accurate in the standup game. So, if it is an underweight short striker vs a tall wrestle boxer, the tall wrestle boxer will have the striking accuracy advantage and just take the fight into the clinch, gas him out, and then knock him out. Being underweight is a good strategy to use, until it isn't, when your fighter has less than 10% energy from all the knees & body shots. The counter punching alone from the lack of energy and the accurate striking could win the match in that hypothetical scenario. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=489838 Taller striker vs smaller grappler... Smaller grappler wins the first round striking against a guy who had elite striking seconds. Crassus IIRC at the time was exp, exp with sens punching and exc kicks. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=482843 Taller wrestler who out skilled Crassus in every single category. He got out-clinched. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=460640 Taller all rounder who again out skilled Crassus at the time. Got out-clinched (actually landed 2 shots out of 13 in the clinch.) This is all just from one single fighter. As Ryan said there is many, many more examples out there. Being underweight is a good strategy to use period, it is why unless it is in a tournament most orgs didn't allow undersized fighters in those divisions. Just use a tall striker? Granite chins are granite chins. At the heavier level they will get the energy advantage before you can knock them out. As far as the clinch thing goes? I think that is outright wrong information. I have always felt that the smaller fighter actually has an advantage in the clinch because it negates the reach. You add in the fact that the smaller fighter will use less energy in the clinch (because this game does not account for the bigger fighter leaning on the smaller fighter) and you are in for a very rough time. Here is the best examples of what you are saying and what actually happens. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=541937 Otso who was 12cm shorter and 20lb lighter fucked Sam Hall up in the clinch. Hall was a notorious clinch rape artist in the welterweight division and got smashed by Otso in the clinch. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=532278 Otso again vs Egyptian another notable clinch rapist who had 17cm on Otso and 16lb. Otso again smashed his ass in the clinch. Now here is the best part http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=636821 Otso vs a guy who was 14lb lighter than him... Otso got fucked up in the clinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 given identical hiddens and stats, lighter fighters have the advantage. No advantage to being heavy in the striking department at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=489838 Taller striker vs smaller grappler... Smaller grappler wins the first round striking against a guy who had elite striking seconds. Crassus IIRC at the time was exp, exp with sens punching and exc kicks. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=482843 Taller wrestler who out skilled Crassus in every single category. He got out-clinched. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=460640 Taller all rounder who again out skilled Crassus at the time. Got out-clinched (actually landed 2 shots out of 13 in the clinch.) This is all just from one single fighter. As Ryan said there is many, many more examples out there. Being underweight is a good strategy to use period, it is why unless it is in a tournament most orgs didn't allow undersized fighters in those divisions. Just use a tall striker? Granite chins are granite chins. At the heavier level they will get the energy advantage before you can knock them out. As far as the clinch thing goes? I think that is outright wrong information. I have always felt that the smaller fighter actually has an advantage in the clinch because it negates the reach. You add in the fact that the smaller fighter will use less energy in the clinch (because this game does not account for the bigger fighter leaning on the smaller fighter) and you are in for a very rough time. Here is the best examples of what you are saying and what actually happens. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=541937 Otso who was 12cm shorter and 20lb lighter fucked Sam Hall up in the clinch. Hall was a notorious clinch rape artist in the welterweight division and got smashed by Otso in the clinch. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=532278 Otso again vs Egyptian another notable clinch rapist who had 17cm on Otso and 16lb. Otso again smashed his ass in the clinch. Now here is the best part http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=636821 Otso vs a guy who was 14lb lighter than him... Otso got fucked up in the clinch. You make a great argument. However let me be more specific, a fighter with these three statistics can beat a small underweight fighter, is heavier, very tall, and lands enough body blow can slow the faster fighter down can counter this strategy in the clinch. As we already know, stand up fighters have an advantage in the standup, but smaller fighters have an advantage in the clinch. However if I use enough clinch control + heaviness from my build + strength, it would be a tall task to just spam in the clinch. First of al, you won't even be able to move lol. I don't have the data as you do to support my claims though unfortunately. Maybe I will make a thread in the future with some actual fights with evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylib Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 The only reason "the speed glitch" is considered a viable strategy is because anybody could use it and rack up the wins. However it is a strategy that could be easily countered. Taller strikers are more accurate in the standup game. So, if it is an underweight short striker vs a tall wrestle boxer, the tall wrestle boxer will have the striking accuracy advantage and just take the fight into the clinch, gas him out, and then knock him out. Being underweight is a good strategy to use, until it isn't, when your fighter has less than 10% energy from all the knees & body shots. The counter punching alone from the lack of energy and the accurate striking could win the match in that hypothetical scenario. Not sure I understand this correctly--are you saying that the taller fighter is more accurate, leading to higher likelihood of instigating the clinch, or are you saying that a more accurate fighter should aim to use that higher accuracy in the clinch? Also, too lazy to check right now--is the increased striking accuracy due to reach transferrable into the clinch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur.Camara Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 I always thought bigger/stronger/taller fighter would dominate in the Clinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=999414 Nero couldn't do a thing in clinch nor stay there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 Not sure I understand this correctly--are you saying that the taller fighter is more accurate, leading to higher likelihood of instigating the clinch, or are you saying that a more accurate fighter should aim to use that higher accuracy in the clinch? Also, too lazy to check right now--is the increased striking accuracy due to reach transferrable into the clinch? No I am just saying if a taller, heavier, stronger fighter hurts you in the clinch that can nullify underweight advantage. Then, when the fight goes back to standing, the accurate punches will eventually knock you out because you know longer have the laser like counters because you lost the energy advantage. Yea Nero couldn't do anything in the clinch in that fight. But I wonder how much stall he used because you exited the clinch pretty easily on him during that tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur.Camara Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=999414 Nero couldn't do a thing in clinch nor stay there That`s insane A guy that outweights his oponent by 100+ lbs should decapitate him with any flush hit. I believe Mike has never done anything about this because orgs have weight restrictions and can manage this themselves. Bu he should fix this and make it more realistic, This is like Ngannou going many rounds vs the orean Zombie, I`m sorry but the Zombie dies for reals in that scenario, MMAT should mimic in some way, shape or form that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 I actually find some data, I don't want to seem like I am play devil's advocate and pulling stats out of my ass, I am actually very serious about this topic. Here is a KT fight of Scorpion vs La De Hoya. Now Scorpion has (12) wonderful and I have 14(sensational) wrestling. He was still able to nullify 67% of La De Hoya's knees to the body with the clinch control setting, even without the wrestling advantage. In fact, I have no idea how Bradley Burns pulled this off it was quite impressive. This fight is actually what inspired me to start making wrestle boxers in the first place. (Scorpion was 8 pounds heavier and had a slight reach advantage) (La De Hoya gassed out) (Scorpion had more energy left in the lost in this fight). http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=1008244 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 Accidently posted the wrong fight the first time, it is fixed lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjornmma1 Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 http://mmatycoon.com/gallery/0/14291880726703.jpg Gunnar "Outlaw" Tuft 12-3-0 I was somewhat shocked to get offered the opportunity to fight MacNamara, but felt way too good of an opportunity to let it slide. Lets see if I can keep up with this 111lbs fireball, while approaching retirement quickly myself at age 39. I'll need to come up with a brilliant plan, if I want to have a decent chance at not making a complete fool out of myself. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 I actually find some data, I don't want to seem like I am play devil's advocate and pulling stats out of my ass, I am actually very serious about this topic. Here is a KT fight of Scorpion vs La De Hoya. Now Scorpion has (12) wonderful and I have 14(sensational) wrestling. He was still able to nullify 67% of La De Hoya's knees to the body with the clinch control setting, even without the wrestling advantage. In fact, I have no idea how Bradley Burns pulled this off it was quite impressive. This fight is actually what inspired me to start making wrestle boxers in the first place. (Scorpion was 8 pounds heavier and had a slight reach advantage) (La De Hoya gassed out) (Scorpion had more energy left in the lost in this fight). http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=1008244 Scorpion didn't go control in the clinch vs you. No way. Bradley is of the high aggro in the clinch guard. Maybe I'm wrong. But I've never seen anything from his slider game to convince otherwise. Knees to body and head aren't very accurate at higher levels. and if you have elite clinch, str, all that good MT related stuff, not the easiest to land knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffMinion Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 http://mmatycoon.com/gallery/0/14291880726703.jpg Gunnar "Outlaw" Tuft 12-3-0 I was somewhat shocked to get offered the opportunity to fight MacNamara, but felt way too good of an opportunity to let it slide. Lets see if I can keep up with this 111lbs fireball, while approaching retirement quickly myself at age 39. I'll need to come up with a brilliant plan, if I want to have a decent chance at not making a complete fool out of myself. Best of luck on fight day Bjorn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjornmma1 Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 Best of luck on fight day Bjorn! You as well man, but just a little bit less luck than me preferably... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=999414 Nero couldn't do a thing in clinch nor stay there Thats the fight that proves this whole argument. And for 10thPlanetKTs question - he would have stalled about 2-3%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur.Camara Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 Knees to body and head aren't very accurate at higher levels. and if you have elite clinch, str, all that good MT related stuff, not the easiest to land knees. Is this a fact? how about elbows? I noticed Mike himself moaning on Buzz the other day that knees and elbows were not as effective in the clinch , this was after he boosted their power slightly, he said he would work on fixing this. Again, Mike is only fighting on the Island so not high level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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