MMATycoon Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 So have any of you guys rewatched Machida vs Shogun? I just did and actually rewatched a couple of rounds twice - this is how I scored it. Machida - Shogun 10-10 10-10 10-9 9-10 9-10 ----- 48-49 Anyone else had a rethink in the cold light of day? I watched again with the sound/commentary on, primarily so that I could pause and rewatch all the exchanges where Rogan said "Oh, good X from Shogun", to check whether there was more to the exchange than just a one way bit of action. Invariably there was. You could actually argue that all 5 rounds were 10-10. The 5th I thought was very close to a 10-10 and I had to watch that round twice to decide that it did warrant giving it to Shogun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 it was a close fight no doubts but i do feel shogun won Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 I watched the fight with a couple of friends and we were fed up with Rogan by the end of round two because he seemed to ignore every shot Machida landed. That said I had it 48-47 Shogun with him winning rounds 1,4 and 5. I did think the first round was really close so Machida getting the decision didn't really surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElGeecho Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 I watched the fight with a couple of friends and we were fed up with Rogan by the end of round two because he seemed to ignore every shot Machida landed. That said I had it 48-47 Shogun with him winning rounds 1,4 and 5. I did think the first round was really close so Machida getting the decision didn't really surprise me. Rogan's definitely in love with the leg kicks. It was the same thing during the Akiyama/Belcher fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinichi Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 I think Rogan was in a bad angle or something... He always saw Shoguns body/leg kicks but couldnt see the straight lefts/leaping knees from Machida -.- Machida/Shogun 1st-10/10 2nd-10/9 3rd-10/9 4th-9/10 5th9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Interesting...I haven't rewatched it (I thought Shogun won), but Rogan always seems to have someones nuts on his chin. It ruins the fight from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I haven't re-watched the fight. All the videos I've found leave out a very important detail for me, what they did between the rounds. In one of the first three rounds, Machida's legs were so badly damaged he had to sit with his legs outstretched because he couldn't even handle the pressure having his feet against the canvas for those moments. I'm pretty sure he was sitting on the ring canvas without the stool as well, but I've seen a photo with him on the stool like that as well. Either way, that I considered that round an automatic loss for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElGeecho Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Interesting...I haven't rewatched it (I thought Shogun won), but Rogan always seems to have someones nuts on his chin. It ruins the fight from time to time. I don't think this is a case of Rogan's bias for a particular fighter getting in the way. After all, he's been on the Machida bandwagon for a long time. I just think this is a situation in which one type of offense, leg kicks, might carry more weight than they should. I want to go ahead and add the disclaimer that I had Shogun winning a very close fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 It's not a robbery, but even now that you rewatched it you still scored it for shogun, like 99% of the viewers. I don't think the 5th round was a close round at all. Machida only landed 2 reasonable knees the entire round. First 3 rounds were very close but it's hard not to score one of them for Shogun or at least one of them even. That would make it a Shogun win or a draw. The stats at the end of the fight were definitely in favor of Shogun and it looked like he had a higher percentage on the damage slider as well. Not a robbery, still a bad decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 It's not a robbery, but even now that you rewatched it you still scored it for shogun, like 99% of the viewers. I don't think the 5th round was a close round at all. Machida only landed 2 reasonable knees the entire round. First 3 rounds were very close but it's hard not to score one of them for Shogun or at least one of them even. That would make it a Shogun win or a draw. The stats at the end of the fight were definitely in favor of Shogun and it looked like he had a higher percentage on the damage slider as well. Not a robbery, still a bad decision. Sounds like you haven't watched the fight again. Not trying to say that in a disrespectful way but I just watched round 5 twice over, frequently rewinding and watching a couple of exchanges multiple times. (loser).... anyway, the point is that pretty much every single round has a couple of strikes in it, including round 5. And as you can see, I didn't score any of the first three rounds for Shogun. If I absolutely had to give rounds 1 and 2 to anyone, I would give them to Machida, but they are both pretty much nailed on 10-10s as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I actually did watch it again. I watched it again the day after and watched it again because you made this thread (and because it's a good fight). First time I scored it 10-9 10-9 9-10 10-9 10-9 49-46 Shogun Second time I scored it exactly like you. I don't think round 4 and 5 were hard to score. I watched round 5 for a 4th time now and I still don't see what Machida did other than landing 2 good knees (2:47). I guess that's why you have multiple judges. You still ended up scoring it for Shogun as well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I don't think this is a case of Rogan's bias for a particular fighter getting in the way. After all, he's been on the Machida bandwagon for a long time. I just think this is a situation in which one type of offense, leg kicks, might carry more weight than they should. I want to go ahead and add the disclaimer that I had Shogun winning a very close fight. Leg kicks are no joke. It certainly affected this fight...I've never seen Machida go into "brawl" mode before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I once heard a sports journalist say that he watches fights with the commentary off so that the opinion of the commentators does not come into his own opinion. I think that's a good thing to do because Rogan and Goldberg can jump all over someone and if Rogan likes it you can bet Goldberg will be on the bandwagon too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I actually I did watch it again. I watched it again the day after and watched it again because you made this thread (and because it's a good fight). First time I scored it 10-9 10-9 9-10 10-9 10-9 49-46 Shogun Second time I scored it exactly like you. I don't think round 4 and 5 were hard to score. I watched round 5 for a 4th time now and I still don't see what Machida did other than landing 2 good knees (2:47). I guess that's why you have multiple judges. You still ended up scoring it for Shogun as well though. Fair enough. I think the thing with this fight is that there were a LOT of instances where both guys landed strikes at the same time. When that happens it's pretty hard to judge the relative merits. Also, there were several instances where the camera changes exactly as strikes land, which muddied the water. Perhaps that happened in round 5, I can't remember. Anyway, I think the point of starting this thread was just to bring things back into perspective a bit. I was one of the people saying it was a complete robbery at the time but I think we were all blinded a bit by how competitive the fight was, when we were largely expecting a blowout. What I take from it is that 10-10s need to be more frequently used - something that I've thought for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 That fight was a bigger screwjob than anything I've seen in boxing or professional wrestling. It was hotly contested, but I consider the idea that Machida won to be completely absurd, commentary be damned. The entire building couldn't hear the commentary, but it didn't stop them from all booing the decision. Machida didn't hear the commentary at the time, but it didn't stop him from reacting and commenting like someone who had lost the fight. Vegas had insane odds in Machida's favor. The UFC is ran by people that own and manage casinos. Unless he was able to make Machida look up at the lights or submit him, he was never leaving the building with that belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I think that's more to do with what people were expecting. If people were expecting Shogun to totally dominate, they value what Machida did more highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Shogun won Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattycrawford09 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 the main reason we all think shogun won was because of the commentry from rogan he never shut up about shogun but no one was licking macidas ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yeah, which totally explains the crowd booing the hell out of the decision and Machida's comments in the post-fight, refusing to give his own thoughts who won, instead choosing to simply say the judges thought he did or the look of shock on his face after the decision was read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffWanderer Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've watched it a few times with and without commentary and as far as i see it, rounds 4 and 5 were the only clear rounds (both to Shogun) and that should have won him the fight as it would be very difficult for em to justify giving all three rounds to Machida. Machida in the 5th spent a lot of time sending out tired shots that very rarely hit the target but could appear on work rate to be more than it was in effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahamillionaire Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I find it funny for so many people to jump on Rogan after this fight, however no one seemed to utter any complaint after his extremely high praise of Machida after he beat Rashad. Actually, come to think of it, all the Machida nut-huggers repeated Rogan's words of "The Machida era is here!" over and over and over again to make him into something he's not. Suddenly Machida isn't the Terminator people thought he was (and isn't) and it's Rogan's fault? Please, most of Machida's shots, Shogun blocked effectively. Sure the commentary was a little one-sided, but so was the fight. Commentary is there to provide insight to the fight and to let the viewers know what's going on. If 95% of the people who watched the fight - fans, fighters, celebrities, and even Fightmetric - came to the same conclusion that Shogun won pretty convincingly, then why wouldn't the commentary be a little one-sided? How would it be fair not to praise Shogun for how he came out against Machida? Sure Machida could have had a little commentary go his way, but at the end of the day his strikes were not simply connecting like Shogun's were. Rogan knew this and called it as he saw it. There's never been a huge problem involving Rogan before, so why have people started now? I guess people just like looking for some sort of scape goat. I guess it's easier for them to blame someone else for the way they saw something, than blame themselves, just say they aren't wrong.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffWanderer Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I find it funny for so many people to jump on Rogan after this fight, however no one seemed to utter any complaint after his extremely high praise of Machida after he beat Rashad. Actually, come to think of it, all the Machida nut-huggers repeated Rogan's words of "The Machida era is here!" over and over and over again to make him into something he's not. Suddenly Machida isn't the Terminator people thought he was (and isn't) and it's Rogan's fault? Please, most of Machida's shots, Shogun blocked effectively. Sure the commentary was a little one-sided, but so was the fight. Commentary is there to provide insight to the fight and to let the viewers know what's going on. If 95% of the people who watched the fight - fans, fighters, celebrities, and even Fightmetric - came to the same conclusion that Shogun won pretty convincingly, then why wouldn't the commentary be a little one-sided? How would it be fair not to praise Shogun for how he came out against Machida? Sure Machida could have had a little commentary go his way, but at the end of the day his strikes were not simply connecting like Shogun's were. Rogan knew this and called it as he saw it. There's never been a huge problem involving Rogan before, so why have people started now? I guess people just like looking for some sort of scape goat. I guess it's easier for them to blame someone else for the way they saw something, than blame themselves, just say they aren't wrong.. Rogan has had his critics before and will again, he does tend to get on one idea of who is winning the fight and is not flexable to appreicate when a change has happened. And if its really obvious 99% of the time he will put it down to gassing, and not the change of tactics etc etc. Not a touch on Bas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VibeBox Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 After a couple of viewings I can definitely see how it was scored for Machida. I'm not saying it's right, just that I don't think it was a flagrant display of total incompetence anymore. (Though lord knows Peoples has had his share of those) If I had to score it myself it would look basically like the scores Mike posted in the OP. Round one and two really didn't have a winner, and overall I'm now pretty happy with the results because: 1. It pissed even the casual fans off, and possibly helped turn them against the awful Round by Round 10 Point Must scoring system. 2. It results in a rematch, and I am of the opinion that neither fighter really won the match. (though I would concede that Shogun came closer) 3. It results in a rematch! That was a seriously awesome fight, and I can't wait to see another where they both (hopefully) act like they have any intention of finishing the fight. 4. Shogun is fur reelz. I'll admit I had no confidence in him, but man was I wrong. He looked top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 After a couple of viewings I can definitely see how it was scored for Machida. I'm not saying it's right, just that I don't think it was a flagrant display of total incompetence anymore. (Though lord knows Peoples has had his share of those) If I had to score it myself it would look basically like the scores Mike posted in the OP. Round one and two really didn't have a winner, and overall I'm now pretty happy with the results because: 1. It pissed even the casual fans off, and possibly helped turn them against the awful Round by Round 10 Point Must scoring system. 2. It results in a rematch, and I am of the opinion that neither fighter really won the match. (though I would concede that Shogun came closer) 3. It results in a rematch! That was a seriously awesome fight, and I can't wait to see another where they both (hopefully) act like they have any intention of finishing the fight. 4. Shogun is fur reelz. I'll admit I had no confidence in him, but man was I wrong. He looked top notch. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 It's funny how much that commentary affects. So many forums are flaming at Machida and yelling that Shogun won 100-0. But after all it was a damn tight fight. It's also kind of sad that Machida is getting unecessary infamy because of this. If people want to find to something to blame, I would say maybe judges. Btw. Sorry about my bad english. Offtopic: I think that Machida wasn't his full 100% in this fight at all. Even though he says so. I am pretty confident that he will destroy and finish next fight, because now he knows how to train against Shogun. But! So does Shogun. It will be a one damn intresting fight. And in addition: I am a Machida & Shogun nuthugger. So I am not biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.